The deal breaker for those types is always the Blasphemy they can throw around as an at-will spell.

I think the strongest statted devil was the pathfinder verison of Lucifer with wooping 200+ million xp for wining a fight against it.

I'm not even sure if pathfinder goes into epic levels to be able to beat that abomination.
 
The deal breaker for those types is always the Blasphemy they can throw around as an at-will spell.

I think the strongest statted devil was the pathfinder verison of Lucifer with wooping 200+ million xp for wining a fight against it.

I'm not even sure if pathfinder goes into epic levels to be able to beat that abomination.
There are... but it's clearly a concession to the possibility rather than a systematic approach.

Pathfinder acknowledges the 3.5 Epic rules as poorly thought out, and doesn't even try to replicate or replace them outright.

Both systems themselves don't seem to try that hard to get players official support for going beyond 20 levels in the first place. You can take a standard party at Level 20 and they can even kill a handful of things several CR higher than them with the right kind of preparation and a bit of luck, but pushing the bill any further almost seems more like an official nod of "there are more dangerous things out there, here's some examples if you want a creative way to TPK a group of people".

Edit: Worth noting, and fortuitous, but Mythic Tiers are basically +1 CR for every two you have. So the whole "several CR higher" estimate is pretty accurate for a group of Mythic people being able to take on an Epic level encounter as a "standard" one.
 
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Edit: Worth noting, and fortuitous, but Mythic Tiers are basically +1 CR for every two you have. So the whole "several CR higher" estimate is pretty accurate for a group of Mythic people being able to take on an Epic level encounter as a "standard" one.

The effect of Mythic tiers depends a lot on your base class, the path ability chosen, your level in the base class and the specific mythic powers you took, in roughly that order from most to least important.

I'd go with your figure for a Fighter-equivalent choosing mostly fluffy options, while a Fullcaster picking mechanically optimal options will get significantly greater mileage out of every rank. For example, you get 3 + 2 * Tier as Mythic Power Points per day and a spellcaster can translate those directly into casting an arbitrary spell from his list. In essence, each Mythic Power Point is a spellslot of the casters highest level, while being able to cast any spell, known or not, without preparing it beforehand. It's hard to put a price of CR equivalent on this since no other ability or item even remotely compares to the insane cheese that this is. Just casting a random spell without preparation is a Feat, allowing you to do it 4 times a day, and being able to keep a prepared spell with a Pearl of Power costs 70,000 GP for 9th level spell.

As is, Viserys gets 9 Mythic Power a day, which means what he gains is worth at least 2.25 Feats and 630,000 GP / 126,000 IM of equipment. And that's just his Path Ability. Per Tier, he adds another 0.5 Feats and 14,000 IM of equipment to that figure.

And as I'm typing this, I notice that I forgot the part where he gets an untyped +2 to CL whenever he pulls that bullshit. I'm not sure what to even price that at. An Orange Prism Ioun Stone gives +1 to CL for 30,000 GP / 6,000 IM, but common wisdom is that those don't stack with each other for sanity reasons, so... a CL +2 item made by conventional quadratic progression would be 24,000 IM a piece. But while the stones wouldn't stack with each other, they would stack with the effect from his Mythic Path. And any other CL boost for that matter.

And I still haven't tapped into his actual Mythic Feats, which include "make spells more killy", "be immune to Concentration checks" and "reroll all failed CL checks".
Which are supreme bullshit.

TL;DR

Mythic Tiers are more multipliers then fixed bonuses. Quadratic Wizards very much applies here.
 
Something about the Golden Shields and her influence in them...though why they listen to her at all is beyond my understanding.

Probably something to do with Westeros' general feudal culture and how the smallfolk are taught from birth to subdorninate themselves to anyone with a noble name, no matter how small. I have a feeling Tywin especially would make sure the proper respect is instilled in his smallfolk.

Essentially if the typical response to a noble asking a smallfolk to jump is "how high?" the appropriate response for a Lannister asking that should be to immediately start jumping as hard as you can while apologizing profusely for not doing so earlier.

I guess if they think they've got it down trying to free one would be worth a shot, but I'm reluctant to give it any kind of magic connection to Rina's soul. It feels too much like playing a game of fey court dynamics and subtle corruption that the Others would be really good at by this point.

Actually no, the Others are actually really really shit at human interactions! It's why the OG grabbed Bloodraven as their main guy in the first place! (okay maybe the suggested sypmaster they've recruited have helped some) Essentially the Others are a force of pure death and despair, which is great for summoning hoards of wights to smother all life but not necessarily for anything that requires subtlety. Essentially the OG realized they'd lose any exchange that was focused on pure brute force and had Bloodraven use their mojo on "social" actions that the Others wouldn't really know how to properly utilize.

Prime example: Instead of summoning some berseker treant at the start of this quest, BR used some OG juice to empower Arya Stark as a champion of the Old Gods. The Others, as part of the OG-Other tit for tat, were given the free chance to empower a Stark blooded champion of their own. Their champion upon hearing what the Others wanted promptly took that power and fled as far South as his feet could take him.

Even here the Other!fey's diplomacy only really worked since Robert was a giant ball of depression, who'd we call suicidal if Westeros knew what that word was.
 
Right, I forgot that Quadratic Wizards is still a thing, and if you think about it this entire quest feeds into the "spell casters became OPPLSNERFHAX this edition" conceit.

Hard to forget that if you're a full-caster, reality warping is kind of just a matter of degrees instead of any kind of linear path, and that's just delineation between classes, and then on top of that you have individual tiers which lay out how bullshit a concept is in a generalist manner...
 
Right, I forgot that Quadratic Wizards is still a thing, and if you think about it this entire quest feeds into the "spell casters became OPPLSNERFHAX this edition" conceit.

Hard to forget that if you're a full-caster, reality warping is kind of just a matter of degrees instead of any kind of linear path, and that's just delineation between classes, and then on top of that you have individual tiers which lay out how bullshit a concept is in a generalist manner...
To be fair, D&D is just full of questionable balance, ambiguously worded cheese, unintended side-effects, esoteric synergies and so on and so forth. The reason the system works is usually that you have a full-time referee at the table who can shut down the worst excesses. Or help those less versed in the art of Tyromancy to enjoy the round by helping them with their builds.

The reason why casters are so much worse is the sheer scale of what they have access to and the versatility gained from it. You can also have pretty broken martial builds, but those are much more limited in what they can achieve, since they only gain so many Feats and Class Features. A caster on the other hand just needs a spell to replicate what would be a Feat or Class Feature for a mundane class. Psions are the same, though more limited due to the list of powers being one, if not two, orders of magnitude smaller then the spell list of a Wizard or Cleric. Even Initiators can get some pretty sweet gouda going for them, but that usually takes the form of being really good at swording something, since their maneuvers don't include things like "reverse gravity in this area" or "magical forcefield".

This is why, in general, I prefer systems that make do without arbitrary limitations in character builds. Mind, my first real pen and paper system was Shadowrun, which has pretty few restrictions on how to build your character, but I always felt SR characters to be more well-rounded and less prone to exploity cheesefests. Sure, those exist in the system too, but they are more obscure and limited in scope, or so easy to achieve that literally everyone can do it. If the round you are playing in is using mandatory minimum cheese, then every character can easily aquire it, since it tends to be some type of equipment or cybernetic enhancement. The few things were the balance breaks harder is with mages and tech-mages (whatever they are called in a given version), who are the few types of characters with exclusive power-sets and vague abilities, which results in the same problem as with D&D mages.


One of these days I will get off my ass and cludge an actual system together from all the disparate attempts and pieces I made over the years.
Right after I'm done marveling at the flying pigs.
 
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Not on the scale and permanence of a Wall of Force though, unless I missed something.
Stand of the Sunlight Shield

Discipline
: Radiant Dawn (Stance); Level: 5
Prerequisite(s): Two Radiant Dawn maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance


DESCRIPTION


This stance sits halfway between martial form and magic prowess, conjuring shields of light to defend yourself and others. While you maintain this stance, you may create sunlight shields. Creating a single sunlight shield is done as free action that can be done once per round, and is done automatically when you enter this stance. A sunlight shield can be created anywhere within close range (25 feet plus 5 feet per 2 levels) of you (to include in the air, where they float until destroyed, dismissed, or removed). Treat a sunlight shield as a 10ft by 10ft by 1 inch thick wall of force, but with hardness equal to your initiator level plus your initiation modifier, and 1 hit point. They may be made smaller at the initiator's discretion. You may have a number of sunlight shields equal to your initiation modifier, and these shields last indefinitely, or until they are no longer within close range of you, you dismiss them as a free action, or you leave this stance. These sunlight shields can be made at any angle, and are treated as normal terrain when stepped on. You may command these shields to fly an amount of feet equal to your movement speed as a move action.


You may also create a sunlight shield as an immediate action, but doing so is dangerous as the hasty construction leaves your essence tied to it. Until the start of your next turn, any damage that the shield takes (before hardness is taken into account), or any spell that would fail because of the shield's sudden appearance between its caster and its target is also inflicted on you, regardless of distance.


Creatures can attack other creatures on the other side of these shields, dealing damage to the shield first. If an attack would break the shield, the remainder of the damage is dealt to the creature if the original attack would have hit. When you enter this stance, you may designate any number of allies. These allies' attacks and abilities are not impeded by your sunlight shields.


Essence: Each point of essence invested into this stance increases the hardness of the sunlight shields by 3, the number of sunlight shields you create when entering this stance by 1, and the number of sunlight shields you can possess at one time by 2.
 
Tangentially related, we can stop time for a few seconds... What passes for road construction equipment in the Empire these days? Do we have ROAD ROLLERS?
The closest would be a suplexed dragon/wyrm - Valyrians used those to make their roads, after all :V

(Jojokes aside, nah, we're using Titan Tools. Arguably you could fuse a set onto a Herald...)
 
Robert Baratheon has in death became a member of a very exclusive club, along with the 13th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch : those who have misunderstood "fuck the Others!".
 
Part MMMDCLVIII: A Whisper in Darkness
A Whisper in Darkness

First Day of the Fourth Month 294 AC

There is a change in the air, a current more felt than seen, the rumble of distant thunder over the western shore. As you lay down on your pillow to sleep, you do not find it dreamless as is commonplace. A raven leads you down familiar paths, through skies that were and are, and perchance those that will be, onto the hollow hill in pale branches crowned, onto the darkness below warded from the sight of gods and men. You can feel Dany at your side, though it is not her will that leads you on. Why is she being summoned? you wonder, but do not speak aloud, for Bloodraven would not summon you thus without great need for counsel taken and received. No sense risking your questions to the Enemy's ear.

***
Elsehwere, Elsewhen

You stand before the bone-white throne as you had done all those years before, though it has been long since you have come here as a supplicant, you stand before the Last Greenseer. There is a smile on his face, whose cause you can well guess, but also a wary look in his eye. Brynden Rivers is always wary.

"Robert Baratheon is dead, killed by a bound spirit of Winter under the guise of Lyanna Stark..."

Finally, after all these years. It has been a long time since you have counted Baratheon among your foremost foes, and longer still since you had nightmares about him, but you can recall that time still. You cannot say you are relieved, but content, yes... content at a job well done.

Dany is less concerned with the deed and more with the means. "How the Hells? Why?"

"Willful cruelty on the part of the Queen, she wanted him to think that he could have it all, Lyanna and his throne, before it was all revealed as a lie, he proved more strong-minded at the last and saw through the deception, but chose sweet death over bitter duty just the same." There is a faint note of disgust to the ancient voice.

Dany looks like she does not know what to do with the answer, and to be honest neither do you. You have always hated the Usurper, first for the harm done to your family, then for his dereliction of duty, but that is just a thoroughly twisted way to kill someone. All things told, you suppose you are glad he managed to break the spell and die on his own terms and not just for what a boon Cersei Lannister's anger is likely to be.

According to Bloodraven, her spite has already given you gifts aplenty; a king dead in sight of gods and men, free for anyone to divine, and killed with a weapon any sane person would find horrific. It had already caused a walk-out of the Golden Shields' most senior mages. The fact that you have letters written in her hand asking for the spirit's prison and the tainted fey itself had all the subtlety of a rampaging dragon makes the propaganda coup all the better. Besides that, the confirmation that the Queen is a sorceress and laid the last of the trap herself barely registers. There is no doubt in your mind Bloodraven can deal with her.

All momentous news, but it turns out not the most surprising thing you were summoned here to hear. "I will give Cersei Lannister this much credit, she bound her monster aright. It was still in the clearing when I came upon it and the unclothed corpse of her victim. I bound it in a diamond, although the prison is decaying as we speak due to the touch of the emptiness within."

"No matter, uncle Brynden. We have those who can deal with such perilous baubles and reward us for it besides," Dany replies grimly.

"I have not forgotten that, but that is not the reason I have summoned you here," he replies. "Before it was bound, the Winter Spirit attempted to taunt me with my supposed ignorance. I believe I came out the better in that contest, as in her haste to prove my ignorance and the folly of resisting, she implied something that might be of momentous worth. That Lanna Lannister's will may not be her own anymore..."

You have no need to breathe here, yet your breath still catches in your chest. If that is true... "What did she say exactly, the dark fey?"

"There is nothing to fight for but the sweet lies you tell yourselves. Just as she who bound me now was bound in turn by unseen chains of her betrayer-kin," Bloodraven recites. "I divined that last to mean Lanna Lannister, Lady of Castemere."

"That does not necessarily have to mean arcane bindings," Dany points out slowly. "The unseen chains can mean just foolish loyalty to her goodbrother and lord."

"It could, but three things incline one to believe otherwise." Bloodraven's hand moves to count them off on his fingers, something he cannot do in the flesh, but reached for instinctively. "Firstly, the use of the past tense 'was' rather than 'is' would imply that these chains were added after the winter fey was bound. Secondly, the fact that according to our new Golden Shield source there has been a seeming shift of behavior for her to allow something as mad as giving Cersei access to the fey's binding. And thirdly, the fact that the spirit... froze for a moment after speaking the words, no jest meant."

"She is under perfect scying and divination wards. Usually that means an inviolate mind, but it would not be impossible to have one without the other," you muse. You have spent enough nights trying to consider how such defenses may be defeated to know that.

What do you do next?

[] Try to get more information out of Robert's killer
-[] Bargain, perhaps with Rina's aid
-[] Mental invasion (risk of corruption)
-[] Sacrifice it to a god (risk that any information will be lost since it is recent and not intrinsic to the spirt)
-[] Write in

[] Set the matter to one side for now, you have many other things to do now that Robert is dead
-[] Send a letter to Winterfell (write in contents)
-[] Start your propaganda campaign
-[] Write in

[] Write in


OOC: I'm not revealing any of the rolls that lead to this because they could spoil the mystery one way or the other, but I will say they were interesting.
 
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"Hey Ned, Bob is dead. Could you move your old ass and help me take on the fiend-summoning Other-allied Lannisters? Or at least don't interfere while I burn them down? Thank you."
"Also, everyone you know is either loyal to me now, a Lannister and now therefore tainted, or dead. So... remember the King Who Knelt?"
 
A Whisper in Darkness

First Day of the Fourth Month 294 AC

There is a change in the air, a current more felt than seen, the rumble of distant thunder over the western shore. As you lay down on your pillow to sleep, you do not find it dreamless, as is commonplace. A raven leads you down familiar paths, through skies that were and are, and perchance those that will be, onto the hollow hill in pale branches crowned, onto the darkness below warded from the sight of gods and men. You can feel Dany at your side, though it is not her will that leads you on. Why is she being summoned? you wonder, but do not speak aloud, for Bloodraven would not summon you thus without great need for counsel taken and received. No sense risking your questions to the Enemy's ear.

***​

Elsehwere, Elsewhen

You stand before the bone-white throne as you had done all those years before, though it has been long since you have come here as a supplicant, you stand before the Last Greenseer. There is a smile on his face, whose cause you can well guess, but also a wary look in his eye. Brynden Rivers is always wary.

"Robert Baratheon is dead, killed by a bound spirit of Winter under the guise of Lyanna Stark..."

Finally, after all these years. It has been a long time since you have counted Baratheon among your foremost foes, and longer still since you had nightmares about him, but you can recall that time still. You cannot say you are relieved, but content, yes... content at a job well done.

Dany is less concerned with the deed and more with the means "How the Hells? Why?"

"Willful cruelty on the part of the Queen, she wanted him to think that he could have it all, Lyanna and his throne, before it was all revealed as a lie, he proved more strong-minded at the last and saw through the deception, but chose sweet death over bitter duty just the same." There is a faint note of disgust to the ancient voice.

Dany looks like she does not know what to do with the answer, and to be honest neither do you. You have always hated the Usurper, first for the harm done to your family, then for his dereliction of duty, but that is just a thoroughly twisted way to kill someone. All things told, you suppose you are glad he managed to break the spell and die on his own terms and not just for what a boon Cersei Lannister's anger is likely to be.

According to Bloodraven, her spite has already given you gifts aplenty; a king dead in sight of gods and men, free for anyone to divine, and killed with a weapon any sane person would find horrific. It had already caused a walk-out of the Golden Shields' most senior mages. The fact that you have letters written in her hand asking for the spirit's prison and the tainted fey itself had all the subtlety of a rampaging dragon makes the propaganda coup all the better. Besides that, the confirmation that the Queen is a sorceress and laid the last of the trap herself barely registers. There is no doubt in your mind Bloodraven can deal with her.

All momentous news, but it turns out not the most surprising thing you were summoned here to hear. "I will give Cersei Lannister this much credit, she bound her monster aright. It was still in the clearing when I came upon it and the unclothed corpse of her victim. I bound it in a diamond, although the prison is decaying as we speak due to the touch of the emptiness within."

"No matter, uncle Brynden. We have those who can deal with such perilous baubles and reward us for it besides," Dany replies grimly.

"I have not forgotten that, but that is not the reason I have summoned you here," he replies. "Before it was bound, the Winter Spirit attempted to taunt me with my supposed ignorance. I believe I came out the better in that contest, as in her haste to prove my ignorance and the folly of resisting, she implied something that might be of momentous worth. That Lanna Lannister's will may not be her own anymore..."

You have no need to breathe here, yet your breath still catches in your chest. If that is true... "What did she say exactly, the dark fey?"

"There is nothing to fight for but the sweet lies you tell yourselves. Just as she who bound me now was bound in turn by unseen chains of her betrayer-kin," Bloodraven recites. "I divined that last to mean Lanna Lannister, Lady of Castemere."

"That does not necessarily have to mean arcane bindings," Dany points out slowly. "The unseen chains can mean just foolish loyalty to her goodbrother and lord."

"It could, but three things incline one to believe otherwise." Bloodraven's hand moves to count them off on his fingers, something he cannot do in the flesh, but reached for instinctively. "Firstly, the use of the past tense 'was' rather than 'is' would imply that these chains were added after the winter fey was bound. Secondly, the fact that according to our new Golden Shield source there has been a seeming shift of behavior for her to allow something as mad as giving Cersei access to the fey's binding. And thirdly, the fact that the spirit... froze for a moment after speaking the words, no jest meant."

"She is under perfect scying and divination wards. Usually that means an inviolate mind, but it would not be impossible to have one without the other," you muse. You have spent enough nights trying to consider how such defenses may be defeated to know that.

What do you do next?

[] Try to get more information out of Robert's killer
-[] Bargain, perhaps with Rina's aid
-[] Mental invasion (risk of corruption)
-[] Sacrifice it to a god (risk that any information will be lost since it is recent and not intrinsic to the spirt)
-[] Write in

[] Set the matter to one side for now, you have many other things to do now that Robert is dead
-[] Send a letter to Winterfell (write in contents)
-[] Start your propaganda campaign
-[] Write in

[] Write in


OOC: I'm not revealing any of the rolls that lead to this because they could spoil the mystery one way or the other, but I will say they were interesting. Not yet edited.
Here's an edited version of the chapter, DP.
 
So, we can give it a shot to try and recruit the Fey?

Winter Fey that are not true Others are insanely rare right now, I would be willing to accept almost any deal that involves:
A: Revoking any allegience to the Void and getting remaining connections removed by Genie-cryomancers
B: Telling us all she knows

For that a lot can be offered.
 
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