Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
I agree.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
-
- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
- Location
- Reno Nv
[X] Goldfish
Well, we can all agree that this quest is one hell of a good time. With a ton of interesting characters plot hooks and more.
Well, we can all agree that this quest is one hell of a good time. With a ton of interesting characters plot hooks and more.
- Location
- Germany
I'm not entirely sure why I shouldn't take it personally when I'm told that everything I do is maximum antagonistic against everyone else and that I'm to deeply involved in absolutely everything.
Honest question: How many posts that attack me as a person, not my arguments, but me personally, do I have to ignore before I'm allowed to take it personally?
Regardless of that, my annoyances and gripes are manifold, and my feelings towards a great many things are not improving since a decent stretch of time. This argument us merely serving as a catalyst.
- Location
- Australia
I'm sure we could whip up some kind of Positoxin Wine if he really wants it.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
I think, for the first time that you ask this, I'll answer;
I have no fucking clue.
I have never been attacked personally on the internet.
Lucky me, I guess.
I have never put out any content, so I have no idea how would I deal with criticism, justified or not.
I really can't project nor relate.
And I feel bad because of that, and so I always keep silent in these arguments.
But, here it is, to keep this question from being rhetorical.
I don't like seeing you nor Crake argue. Duh.
Neither did I like seeing you and Snowfore argue.
Nor did I like to see arguing with TNE over the balance.
Nor did I like arguing that happened over the Rhaella-ship.
Etc. Etc. Etc.
I dislike everything about this situation, because I can barely summon any interest in the thread these days, and there's drama again, and people leaving, again.
So, from an entirely unreasonable point of view that had only my selfish/egoistic thoughts on the matter?
I'd like everyone to stop arguing, whatever the fucking reason is. And keep on playing the quest.
But it doesn't work like thst.
And I'm too sensitive about offending anyone to try and push and too shitty st explaining myself to try and change someone's mind, whenever there's drama.
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I hope there's enough sensible words in this salad, because I haven't slept in a while, and am going to nap now.
As usual, assume any offensive stuff to be the result of me being shitty at explaining and/or sleepy. I'm generally too shy/nice to try and shit on someone directly on purpose.
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- Location
- Australia
- Location
- Australia
Which reminds me:
Authenticating Gaze - Plus 10 Insight Bonus to Linguistics (Will not stack with Hypercognition)
Ceremony - Plus 2 Sacred Bonus to Linguistics
Hypercognition - Also Plus 10 Insight Bonus to Linguistics (Will not stack with Authenticating Gaze)
Investigative Mind - Roll twice for Linguistics checks.
Edit:
Have we retrained to be Trained in Linguistics?
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OK. I have to say I was not expecting this.
I barely know where to start with this, but I will try
@Crake the omake delves a little too deep into elements I would like to explore and roll for on my own to be made canon, that does not mean it's not a great piece of writing that I am proud to have inspired. I trully and sincerely hope you will not stop contributing to this thread.
@Azel I am really sorry the character discussion is troubling for you. I hope some of what we do here at least is fun for you, hell I know I enjoyed the orbital mechanics discussion over PMs last night
@egoo I sympathize I really do. I just landed into a argument I just don't want to deal with but as the GM and (I hope) as a friend to the people involved I would like to urge calm and getting back to the story and having fun please.
This is a real stressful time for me gyuys as I imagine it is for a lot of people. I do not think I can deal with the thread exploding on top of everything else
I barely know where to start with this, but I will try
@Crake the omake delves a little too deep into elements I would like to explore and roll for on my own to be made canon, that does not mean it's not a great piece of writing that I am proud to have inspired. I trully and sincerely hope you will not stop contributing to this thread.
@Azel I am really sorry the character discussion is troubling for you. I hope some of what we do here at least is fun for you, hell I know I enjoyed the orbital mechanics discussion over PMs last night
@egoo I sympathize I really do. I just landed into a argument I just don't want to deal with but as the GM and (I hope) as a friend to the people involved I would like to urge calm and getting back to the story and having fun please.
This is a real stressful time for me gyuys as I imagine it is for a lot of people. I do not think I can deal with the thread exploding on top of everything else
I'm going to go with no, you probably don't want to read it, the omake that started this whole thing is very nice as a piece of writing. I just wish the reactions had not been what they were.
I wish people would be a little more patient to hear from me when this kind of stuff happens overnight
- Location
- ...Somewhere
No, probably not.
- Location
- Germany
Crake did say he meant for the omake to be too over-the-top to be canon, so that's not the trouble.
Then what on earth is the trouble. What changed between last night and now that we have a giant argument in the thread?
I will say this bluntly I will not go over old gripes, I do not have the energy for that.
Yes people have different perspectives on the character, and those perspectives are mirrored in writing which is by the nature of being presented from characters PoV subjective. That is the entire point of this writing format.
I genuinely cannot see what people are arguing over.
The next update is delayed... I'll get back to this eventually. I think I might kill a main character unfairly if I write in this mood.
- Location
- ...Somewhere
Its seems to me that they simply really don't like each others interpretations of Visery's character.
I think?
I got that, but if we can't even have differing opinions of characters without acrimonious discussions I'm just going to close the quest down and do something else. I write this quest because it's fun for me (which the above discussion was not in any way shape or form) and because I want to share my writing with others who find it enjoyable to read and discuss. The above discussion also was not that . It just showed up out of the blue without anything in recent updates to cause it so what the hell am I supposed to do? Impose a character concept as canon? Say you can't read this if you don't believe X Y and Z about Viserys?
I'm serious guys this is not something I feel that I can fix other than by just ending the quest.
I hope I'm just overreacting from the shock but this is how I feel right now.
- Location
- France
Is this something that you have to fix?
This sounds like an issue that only they can solve. Possibly by taking a good night's sleep and discussing it in PMs or something, I don't know. But IMO attempting online mediation is always difficult, and you're the worst placed to try doing so here (you're the QM of the quest).
In any case, from reading this it sounds like this is no longer really about Viserys' characterisation, but also about interpersonal disagreements and recurring issues throughout the thread.
No amount of WoG will really resolve things, and trying to help them talk through their apparent dislike of each others' attitudes may be complicated by the fact that you're a nice QM that neither of them wants to offend or annoy into ending the quest.
To be honest, I personally share many of Crake's feelings when reading Azel's posts. "You too pushed for Viserys to be a Lawful Evil conqueror, and now you write long posts explaining why liking the quest's protagonist is bad?" is definitely annoying to read. It's not incorrect, of course, but it was definitely nicer to wallow in protagonist-centered morality (or at least consequence-focused morality). Although I do understand that it must be very annoying for Azel to read all of these posts going on about how Viserys is an amazing good person who did all these good things when Azel considers Viserys to be a power-hungry maniac who only incidentally helps others to make them more useful tools. It must be extremely jarring and annoying to read some other posts.
Still, I'm not sure that this approach to policing the thread conversation can work - if only because everyone remembers previous morality and policy debates in which Azel explicitly advocated for not taking the Good route because Good is stupid, will get people killed and will fail to achieve real change, and all of Azel's points are colored by these antecedents.
Oh, and of course there's the fact that every single fucking morality argument in this thread has denegerated into "I'm not being respected" or "these people have been unkind to me in the past so now I'll read everything they say in the least charitable light possible - this will allow me to confront the root of the issue and make everything go much smoother!". This has, uh, backfired every single time. I'm not sure why it's still happening at this point.
Furthermore, actually understanding every aspect of Azel's point is difficult for me because it's mixed with Lucan discourse. What's about Viserys, and what's about trying to get people to stop shit-talking the NPC he put so much effort into fleshing out in ways that are so incorrect?
I suspect that I'm not the only person to be affected by this mixture of topics, and I suspect that it's making the argument worse.
I understand why these topics are mixed, of course - you can't really debate one without the other. But it adds a "I don't want my protagonist to be the bad guy" feel to things, which isn't exactly conducive to a peaceful resolution.
Maybe I'm just too tired to understand what you're talking about, but shouldn't our huge purchases of luxury goods be raising prices instead of lowering them?
On another note, while this was an interesting Omake idea @Crake, I've got to say that I'm very happy it's non-canon. IMO it takes some significant liberties with the character, making him into nothing but another overly well-informed "Viserys is amazingly terrifying and I can't handle it" NPC whose voice doesn't stand out and whose weird culture and upbringing don't seem to influence him at all. And surrounding him with people who go into panicked hysterics at the drop of a hat is weird - these are courtiers, even if they were freaked out and unaware of the existence of the Gate spell they ought to be able to hide it.
IMO it's best to avoid his PoV for this sort of thing. Actually, it's best to avoid the PoV of major characters in general.
Furthermore, this is an Emperor who has been outclassed in terms of power for a long, long time. This isn't a new situation for him, and he ought to be used to it by now! Him being annoyed by the implication that we may intervene militarily in his lands is understandable.
For example, him freaking out about our actions in the Far North is far less understandable. Not only does he know nothing about the place, but the new population we got ought to seem insignificant to him (it's a tiny number of barbarians: who cares?). Honestly, if he gets semi-detailed reports, he ought to interpret this as a defeat for us: we went North, fought some local creatures, got some barbarians of some sort (possibly unusually tall ones, but that might be the unreliable messenger effect), and lost precious magitech ships.
Okay, that's hilarious though. And accurate!
This. @egoo is 100% correct here.
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I'm not putting ASWAH on official hiatus or anything I just did not feel I could write in it right now, but I needed to write to de-stress, so here we are. Probably, hopefully I'll run the quests in tandem.
Question tho, how the hell are you so good at naming things, like damn.
- Location
- Germany
This is not a character discussion issue for me anymore. That's an issue I have with some in the thread having decided that whenever they don't like what I'm saying, it's perfectly acceptable to go for personal attacks. This is backed up by others users implying I'm just taking things too personally.
Heck. Even @TalonofAnathrax is pointing to my voting record as a reason for things escalating and people flipping their shit at me, and that I'm being too touchy when attacked. Which is rather stunning to me, since they usually kept out of this so far.
So. Apparently people telling me I'm a vile monster without empathy that constantly spreads misery is something I'm supposed to take in stride, acceptable to everyone here and an entirely valid, logical refutation of whatever I'm saying at the moment. And no, apologizing afterwards does not weigh this up. Stopping to do this would weigh this up, but it doesn't seem I can expect this to happen, because the issue everyone is having with me is me as a person and my history, not what I'm saying right now. The feedback I'm getting is that I'm raising some valid points, but that it's really, really bad that I'm the one raising them.
I genuinely don't know what people expect me to do in response to these things. Apparently the consensus is that the best thing for me to do is to just shut up and not bother anyone, since everything even slightly controversial I say is automatically tainted by me as a person.
So. Fine. Doing that now.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I'll echo @TalonofAnathrax here and say that there isn't anything you need to fix. The entire kerfuffle last night came down to interpersonal issues between posters.
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No of course you should not take that in stride, there were jokes about you being evil, but that is all they were, the very idea that you felt so attacked in this thread makes me feel terrible and it's just one more thing I don't know how to address.
In short I expect everyone to be kind and considerate to one another, and view each other in the best rather than the worst light, but it seems that certain issues and conflicts have become so contentious that that is not posibile anymore and that is deeply saddening to me.
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