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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Honestly my takeaway from an in universe standpoint on the situation being described is to try and develop the institutions or at least trusted adjutants capable of managing Archmages effectively whether we grow them or recruit them, because Visery's can only personally manage so many archmages at one time.

By this I do not mean regulation in the way the scholarium performs its duties, but more like how Qatar or other materially wealthy but trade reliant nations have developed policies for identifying and buttering up businessmen or visiting dignitaries. The idea being we want people with the training and the resources to identify what Archmages want, obtain that thing faster and more easily than the archmage themselves can, then use that thing to negotiate for their services, and otherwise do what they need to do to insure the archmage likes us.

This is obviously not something quick or easy to set up, but it is sounding like something we should consider making a long term project as Archmages are just that valuable and eventually (even if we do not start pumping them out of the forge) we will have more Archmages on hand then Viserys can personally handle simply due to our non stop recruitment drive, the Scholarium, the coming wars, and the law of averages as applied over a long time scale.
 
tarrangar said:
That's great, can you remind me how long the pod recruiting has been going on for? Is this the result of the first month of recruiting pods, or is this the result of 2 months worth of rolls?

So at current recruitment levels, the harvesters should be harvesting 114,100 IM worth of gems a month, half of those gems are ours, so for this first month gem harvesting has been going on, we have earned 57,050 IM.

Next month we will supply the pods with guardians, which will cost us 179,550 IM, but will be earning us 17,955 IM a month, plus give us a share of any loot from defeated Whalers, so unless the guardians get killed off, pod guardians will begin to earn us money 10 months after they are made.

All in all I'm really excited about this, with only 1-2 months of recruiting we are already making over 50k a month(before expenses) and that number is only going to grow.

We can summon a dozen, feed them to Yss, and ask him to make a Snake-horse with all the Nightmare's powers.

Why 10? There's only 9 pods currently part of the Gem Harvesting, so shouldn't we only make 9?

Also how do 10 times 4,800 add up to 60,000? Shouldn't the total be 48,000 thousand?

There's also the fact that they only get the template version of casting, they're not full casters, and have way less spell-slots than a full caster has.

They can't level either, so while they can get to CL15, they have no way to get to CL20 or get Mythic ranks, unless they manage to transition to a full caster, but the ability to do that is rare.
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It's two months of recruiting and word of mouth traveling.
 
Smartphone said:
Honestly my takeaway from an in universe standpoint on the situation being described is to try and develop the institutions or at least trusted adjutants capable of managing Archmages effectively whether we grow them or recruit them, because Visery's can only personally manage so many archmages at one time.

By this I do not mean regulation in the way the scholarium performs its duties, but more like how Qatar or other materially wealthy but trade reliant nations have developed policies for identifying and buttering up businessmen or visiting dignitaries. The idea being we want people with the training and the resources to identify what Archmages want, obtain that thing faster and more easily than the archmage themselves can, then use that thing to negotiate for their services, and otherwise do what they need to do to insure the archmage likes us.

This is obviously not something quick or easy to set up, but it is sounding like something we should consider making a long term project as Archmages are just that valuable and eventually (even if we do not start pumping them out of the forge) we will have more Archmages on hand then Viserys can personally handle simply due to our non stop recruitment drive, the Scholarium, the coming wars, and the law of averages as applied over a long time scale.
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Companions already fill this niche to some extent. While close friends don't grow on trees (archmages apparently do ba-dum-tish), we made about a dozen of them in a handful of years, and there will be more Companions in all likelihood. It's not a problem.
 
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Goldfish said:
We've been bringing the Fire Whales into the harvesting scheme for months now, so the nine current ones didn't all just show up this past month. Having one extra set of guardians is understandable, IMO, but not six. More can be grown next month if necessary.
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Wasn't it only last month, that we finished setting up the gem harvesting network? But either way, I think this is a question for DragonParadox.

@DragonParadox can you give us the predicted average amount of pods recruited per month?

I don't expect exact numbers, but the people handling the gem harvesting should be able to give us an estimate, of the numbers they expect to recruit in a month.
 
I really hate the idea that Archmages grow on trees. From a setting-building perspective, that's just so annoying... Even Outsiders who literally appear out of nothing don't get as many Archmages as they want.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
I really hate the idea that Archmages grow on trees. From a setting-building perspective, that's just so annoying... Even Outsiders who literally appear out of nothing don't get as many Archmages as they want.
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Outsiders can also manufacture Archmages at will, a Pit Fiend can with sufficient lemures, make every devil up to and including another Pit Fiend, the only thing abnormal, is that we can craft our Archmages out of magic reagents, where most others need to use soulstuff.
 
Why not make us have to use soulstuff too, then?

Or really any overriding limitation which impresses the scarcity of powerful caster's inherent qualities.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
I really hate the idea that Archmages grow on trees. From a setting-building perspective, that's just so annoying... Even Outsiders who literally appear out of nothing don't get as many Archmages as they want.
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At the same time the most relevant example of this -- Pit Fiends, who have the ability to simply promote lesser devils and basically manufacture Archmages -- almost never make other Pit Fiends outside of special circumstances because of how hard they'd be to control.
 
I would rather not be able to "grow archmages on trees" as it's been called, if it counts for anything.
Because of above described fluff reasons mostly, tbh.

*back to sleep*
 
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Crake said:
Why not make us have to use soulstuff too, then?

Or really any overriding limitation which impresses the scarcity of powerful caster's inherent qualities.
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I would say that we should need to use Soulstuff, for above CL10 in the Flesh Forge, and the Fungus Forge should just only be able to make so many casters above CL10, because the Fungus Forge work by incarnating spirits of the Greendream in flesh, and while the Greendream, has millions of souls that can handle CL10 and below power, and would like to spend some time in the mortal world, the amount of souls that can handle higher than CL10, and would like to spend some time out of the Greendream is far lower, and once those souls run out, the Fungus Forge just can't supply more Casters with higher than CL10.

Making physically powerful beings the Forges can do endlessly, as physical power is bound more to body than soul, so there's no problem with that.
 
Crake said:
Companions already fill this niche to some extant. While close friends don't grow on trees (archmages apparently do ba-dum-tish), we made about a dozen of them in a handful of years, and there will be more Companions in all likelihood. It's not a problem.
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I agree that it is not a problem now or in the short to medium term. I do worry about the long term though as the Imperium's industrialization leads to massive exponential population growth which combined with a push for universal education leads to a staggering number of people becoming mages relative to now a very small number of whom will become archmages. The bottom line of which is that even if the number of Archmages are a small proportion of the total population the number of archmages should scale with population, and the population is set to explode due to the changes we are making.

In contrast the limiting factor on the number of available Companion's is Visery's trust, which requires Visery's time to get to know the potential companion, and time is a highly scarce resource that I do not think we can produce (even Mythic time stop only helps so much) on the level needed to match the growth of our Archmage population in the long run. Hence in the long term having plans for an institution to manage the archmages for us seems prudent.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jan 19, 2020 at 1:44 PM, finished with 72 posts and 14 votes.
  • [X] Share custody with Vialesk until a judgement can be reached. Ask the Captain of the Sea Guard to contact his superiors and impress upon them the need for discretion and haste. In the meantime, we will hold him here in our embassy, though we welcome the presence of additional Sea Guard personnel to provide greater security (after they are deemed free of Deep One influence, of course).
    -[X] If Islin is an infiltrator, there is no telling who else may be a Deep One collaborator or flesh puppet. We need a representative of the Council, preferably more than one, present when we interrogate Islin. Time is of the essence, and we don't know what other plots may already be close to fruition.
    -[X] Once we have been able to interrogate Islin without fear of him escaping or being silenced before damaging information can be extracted, we will turn him over to Vialesk authorities to do with as they see fit.
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Part MMMCCXCIX: A Surer Binding
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    • A Surer Binding ​

    Seventh Day of the Twelfth Month 293 AC

    "Joint custody will be more than enough captain," you reply as you bind the pulsating organ in amber for safekeeping to ensure it does not react violently to having its supply of blood so abruptly cut off. "I am not concerned about vengeance against another of the Deep Ones pawns, but only the safety of Vialesk and other realms of good will."

    "Right," the officer nods, taking out a scroll woven of waxed kelp strands and begins to write down his report. "You don't need to talk to me like you're standing in front of the Council, name's Investigator Captain Musikos."

    "Speaking of the Council, I'm afraid I'm about to complicate that report of yours captain," you admit with a sympathetic smile. You recognize the type beneath the flowing silver heraldry of the Sea Guard, that is at once a citizen army, city guard and even a part of Vialesk's administration in the sort of bureaucratic tangle that only several thousand years of institutional evolution can create.

    The mage sighs, plain brown eyes that would not look out of place in any port at home look back at you steadily, only the rippling of his gill-slits marking what might have, in another, been a sigh. "You want a Council representative for this, don't you?"

    "Who knows how far the roots go beneath the surface, he has been in the company of influential parties, trader council members, high officers of the guard..." Saying it aloud makes you all the more aware of the tangle you could have stepped into, the danger your fledgling alliance with the City of Splendid Waves could already be in.

    "We screen for Far Realm influence constantly," Captain Musikos interjects. "The higher you go the more thorough the investigations and considering how much I have to go through..." he gives a small laugh. "Well, this is still a fetid current to be swimming in but it's not a whole fetid sea if you catch my meaning."

    "I do and I am relieved to hear it captain..." you reply truthfully. The more you consider the matter the more you are inclined to at least cautious optimism. This city has fought a successful war against the Deep Ones.

    That experience shows in the guards sent to both accompany the white bearded Guildmaster Neios and help ascertain the truth of your prisoner's motives and allegiance. The pair of teleriel mages sent to aid in the investigation proper have the same knack for countering mind magics as Breath Taker and a skill for sifting through another's deepest memories to match yours or Tyene's, but by far the most impressive thing they bring with them is a true silver sarcophagus threaded through with sapphire crystal such as you have only seen in one other place before, the Monastery of the Unbroken Circle.

    "That's like crafting an arcane void... only for their magic, isn't it?" Lya asks., more confident with every moment spent observing the device.

    "Yes," one of the sorcerers who had delivered it replies, unceremoniously scooping up a cup of the transmuted spy and placing it inside. "It also affects magic of the Spheres since there is nothing stopping their adepts from using it, but it does have a whole array of spells meant to counter curses and enchantments built into it," he touches a rune at the side of the sarcophagus and the thing comes to life with an unpleasant dissonant hum that shivers through your bones. Then the investigator touches another of the subtle runes and the hum rises to an almost painful pitch.

    The experience must have been far less pleasant from the inside as Islin returns to his own form screaming, just in time for steel chords to burst to live inside the sarcophagus and bind him tight as a spider's web. Captain Musikos motions for you to begin while the guildmaster waits somewhat impatiently, and the two guards he had arrived with initially do their best to blend into the marble facing of the wall and the teleriel enchanters look on curiously.

    What questions do you ask?

    [] Write in

    OOC: I could have started this myself, but I'm almost certain I would miss something you guys would want to ask so I figured it's best to have one vote to cover everything.
     
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    • DragonParadox said:
    That experience shows in the guards sent to both accompany the white bearded Guildmaster Neios and and help ascertain the truth of your prisoner's motives and allegiance. The pair teleriel mages sent to aid in the investigation proper have the same knack for countering mind magics as Breath Taker and a skill for sifting through another's deepest memories to match yours or Tyene's, but by far the most impressive thing they bring with them is a true silver sarcophagus threaded through with sapphire crystal such as you have only seen in one other place before, the Monastery of the Unbroken Circle.

    "That's like crafting an arcane void... only for their magic isn't it?" Lya asks more confident with every moment spent observing the device.

    "Yes," one of the sorcerers who had delivered it replies unceremoniously scooping up a cup of the transmuted spy and placing it inside. "It also affects magic of the Spheres since there is nothing topping their adepts from using it, but it does have a whole array of spells meant to counter curses and enchantments built into it," he touches a rune at the side of the sarcophagus and the thing comes to life with and unpleasant dissonant hum that shivers though your bones. Then the investigator touches another of the subtle runes and the hum rises to and almost painful pitch.

    The experience must have been far less pleasant from the inside as Islin returns to his own form screaming, just in time for steel chords to burst to live inside the sarcophagus and bind him tight as a spider's web. Captain Musikos motions for you to begin, while the guildmaster waits somewhat impatiently, and the two guards he had arrived with initially do their best to blend into the marble facing of the wall and the teleriel enchanters look on curiously.
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    @DragonParadox
    1. What are the specs for the abilities of this thing? What level of psionic spell can it block out? How much does one cost to make or buy?
    2. Where did they get this one?
    3. Could the same principles be applied to a room?
    4. Can we get a primer on their anti-Deep Ones measures and pass it on to the Inquisition to implement in our own realm?
     
    TalonofAnathrax said:
    I really hate the idea that Archmages grow on trees. From a setting-building perspective, that's just so annoying... Even Outsiders who literally appear out of nothing don't get as many Archmages as they want.
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    I think it is pretty clear from the discussion that we are not making arch-mages*, for the same reasons we are not making chromatic dragons, it's just too dangerous so the hypothetical ability to do so does not count for much.

    *sidenote arch-mage is overestimating what is being proposed here. 6th level spells are strong but they are not 8th-9th level and above which is the domain of archmages.
     
    Duesal said:
    @DragonParadox
    1. What are the specs for the abilities of this thing? What level of psionic spell can it block out? How much does one cost to make or buy?
    2. Where did they get this one?
    3. Could the same principles be applied to a room?
    4. Can we get a primer on their anti-Deep Ones measures and pass it on to the Inquisition to implement in our own realm?
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    These are things to ask about in character though Viserys suspects it's not going to be easy to get his hands on something like this for the same reason you guys do not share military secrets.
     
    @DragonParadox Can we get an estimate of how many Fire Whale pods, we can expect to join the Gem harvesting per month? We don't need precise numbers, but it would be nice to have a rough number, so we can decide how many extra guardians to make, so we can supply any pod that join next month right away.
     
    Smartphone said:
    In contrast the limiting factor on the number of available Companion's is Visery's trust, which requires Visery's time to get to know the potential companion, and time is a highly scarce resource that I do not think we can produce (even Mythic time stop only helps so much) on the level needed to match the growth of our Archmage population in the long run. Hence in the long term having plans for an institution to manage the archmages for us seems prudent.
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    I dunno, dude. You're proposing creating an institution which can be employed on a wide-scale, when the very conceit of speaking with our direct interests in mind comes hand-and-hand with built up trust and the ability to delegate completely when it comes to managing relations with people who are both strategic assets and politically powerful.

    Companions fill this niche completely. Family members who have gotten some worldly experience and who we believes are responsible form another. We have multiple ways to delegate, Simulacrums with a telepathic bond to us being a not inconsiderable aide to this.

    I do not think creating another organization for something which implicitly requires finesse is a wise course of action. We are going to have a bottle-neck somewhere eventually, and even we ourselves have to schedule appointments with rulers in advance if we want to advance our own interests. Why should it be different for our peer casters?
     
    Also, it's important enough for me to double post this to add, but the Scholarum already has many ways to allow an influential and powerful mage to advance their interests and request funding or help with something through regular bureaucratic channels which would be handled quickly already given their importance.

    Someone who believes themselves important enough to jump a dozen tiers and go straight to the head honcho might not necessarily be someone we want to work with, or alternatively, they might be important enough that just stating their reason would shoot them to the top of our schedule.

    As is, we have a lot of ways to delegate already.
     
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