Pretty much my exact thoughts on the matter, though they did come uncomfortably close to killing Viserys, IIRC.

If we absolutely cannot avoid dealing with them, I would much rather send a group of baby adventurers on a Wisp collection quest. Properly equipped (as we definitely were not when we ventured into the swamp), they would be able to handle Wisps without too much hassle.
I'd rather handle this in person. It's way less narratively satisfying to delegate this to baby PCs.
 
I personally have no intention to kill them, only to extract recompense.

If they try to kill us again, though, that's a different story.

Easily the most frustrating fight of the quest. They almost destroyed the Seeker, too, and if the Seeker is destroyed there's no bringing it back barring making a new one from scratch. That was all the more true back before we had a Flesh Forge.
We're still taking time out of a busy schedule conquering the plane to bitch slap an encounter we're entirely over leveled for because we didn't have a perfect run the first time. I wouldn't care that much accept for the way that this raises some weird questions about Viserys' character if he's actually thinking about that of all encounters right now.

He's penciling in "smite some itty bitty irrelevant assholes" in between inventing income tax, planet spanning mortal intrigue, and planning a war with a major dragon deity entirely unprompted. I'm not sure how this set of actions gets justified in character other than Viserys being more neurotic than normal.


I'd rather handle this in person. It's way less narratively satisfying to delegate this to baby PCs.
What narrative? We tried to cut a deal for guides or something and got tricked. I don't entirely recall the encounter but I don't think it even had a story to balance out.
 
I'd rather handle this in person. It's way less narratively satisfying to delegate this to baby PCs.
Depends on how you look at it. Once, they were among our deadliest foes. Now, just a few years later, they are so inconsequential that we send the neophyte adventurers after them as what amounts to a training exercise. That would we quite satisfying for me.

That said, I'm not going to argue against hunting them down, because it's been on y'alls wishlist for too long. Closure is nice.

I'm just hoping that they've grown into high CR super Wisps, maybe on their own legend among swamp Fey for nearly offing us, so that the effort ends up being worthwhile.
 
We're still taking time out of a busy schedule conquering the plane to bitch slap an encounter we're entirely over leveled for because we didn't have a perfect run the first time. I wouldn't care that much accept for the way that this raises some weird questions about Viserys' character if he's actually thinking about that of all encounters right now.

He's penciling in "smite some itty bitty irrelevant assholes" in between inventing income tax, planet spanning mortal intrigue, and planning a war with a major dragon deity entirely unprompted. I'm not sure how this set of actions gets justified in character other than Viserys being more neurotic than normal.
We'll have to disagree. This is settling a score with an old enemy. Just because Viserys has grown in power doesn't make going after them neurotic.
What narrative? We tried to cut a deal for guides or something and got tricked. I don't entirely recall the encounter but I don't think it even had a story to balance out.
The narrative of a humiliating defeat in the past being rectified.
Depends on how you look at it. Once, they were among our deadliest foes. Now, just a few years later, they are so inconsequential that we send the neophyte adventurers after them as what amounts to a training exercise. That would we quite satisfying for me.

That said, I'm not going to argue against hunting them down, because it's been on y'alls wishlist for too long. Closure is nice.

I'm just hoping that they've grown into high CR super Wisps, maybe on their own legend among swamp Fey for nearly offing us, so that the effort ends up being worthwhile.
I think it would be amazingly satisfying to delegate this to baby PCs, actually
I'd personally be very disappointed if we delegated this.
 
they've grown into high CR super Wisps, maybe on their own legend among swamp Fey for nearly offing us
A non-zero somewhat high chance of that, actually.

Piggybacking off our legend wouldn't be... that hard at this point.
Fey are bastards, after all.

They are the only "defeat" I can remember off the top of my head Viserys suffering without reciprocating... besides Aberi's crew (and him it was rather OOC defeat rather than IC, tbh).
 
I love that we're going after the wisps. I mean seriously, this a guy that doesn't even eat or sleep unless it's scheduled weeks in advance and even then only if his mum makes him and yet, he's carving time out to go after these guys from literally years ago. I can just imagine Viserys having this conversation with himself.

Viserys: "Are there more important things I could be doing with my time?". Yes.
Viserys: "Is it petty?". Yes.
Viserys: "Will it be satisfying?". Oh, YES.
 
@Crake, have you got hard numbers for your Sothoryos expedition on hand? Specifically the manpower they managed to recruit.
Several mages from the Scholarum, Investigators Baedar and Tobyis plus a team of Inquisitorial soldiers, multiple Snake People guides acquired from Riz'Neth, the Little Valyiran Rogue who fought in the Tournament and actually got pretty far, in addition to already having couple of Level 8-9 mercenaries, a level 10 Magus, a level 6 Rogue with 4 Expert Levels leader, a swashbuckler of the same level as their bodyguard, the glass golem, and lots of warriors with some Fighter levels mixed in (or Experts).
 
I love that we're going after the wisps. I mean seriously, this a guy that doesn't even eat or sleep unless it's scheduled weeks in advance and even then only if his mum makes him and yet, he's carving time out to go after these guys from literally years ago. I can just imagine Viserys having this conversation with himself.

Viserys: "Are there more important things I could be doing with my time?". Yes.
Viserys: "Is it petty?". Yes.
Viserys: "Will it be satisfying?". Oh, YES.
They call it "treat yo' self".
 
Several mages from the Scholarum, Investigators Baedar and Tobyis plus a team of Inquisitorial soldiers, multiple Snake People guides acquired from Riz'Neth, the Little Valyiran Rogue who fought in the Tournament and actually got pretty far, in addition to already having couple of Level 8-9 mercenaries, a level 10 Magus, a level 6 Rogue with 4 Expert Levels leader, a swashbuckler of the same level as their bodyguard, the glass golem, and lots of warriors with some Fighter levels mixed in (or Experts).
What gear are they working with? I'm guessing with their resources they've purchased enchanted weapons of arcane metals from the markets?
 
They almost destroyed the Seeker, too, and if the Seeker is destroyed there's no bringing it back barring making a new one from scratch.
Right, had been meaning to show the thread a spell once constructs became commonplace.. Check out Memory of Function. Material components can be cheerfully bypassed by either Blood Wishing or using Wild Arcana for it - though even without the cheese, might be worthwhile for the more elite or sapient ones. Pokes golem monk.
 
What gear are they working with? I'm guessing with their resources they've purchased enchanted weapons of arcane metals from the markets?
Level appropriate gear, for the most part. Investors were concerned about sustainability, and then convincing a large number of mundanes to come along took a lot of demonstrations of resourcefulness like the mobile fortifications which costed a pretty penny. And volumes upon volumes of supplies which while comparatively cheap, in the amounts purchased end up being more expensive.
 
Right, had been meaning to show the thread a spell once constructs became commonplace.. Check out Memory of Function. Material components can be cheerfully bypassed by either Blood Wishing or using Wild Arcana for it - though even without the cheese, might be worthwhile for the more elite or sapient ones. Pokes golem monk.
Yep, that's a good one. We're going to use it as part of our skydock repair facility, for Moonchasers, Wyverns, and certain Constructs.
 

Cold Rider - Monsters - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder RPG Database

Cold riders are terrifying armored majesties, clad in cloaks of frost with a pair of large crystal-blue antlers cresting their almost skeletal heads. Their icy armor and weapons are as much a part of them as their frozen flesh. Cold riders delight in perversion, slaughter, and the corruption of...

A chaotic evil cold fey creature, it's absolutely an Other. Also, its gear self-destructs on death. Truly vile creatures.
 
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Cold Rider - Monsters - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder RPG Database

Cold riders are terrifying armored majesties, clad in cloaks of frost with a pair of large crystal-blue antlers cresting their almost skeletal heads. Their icy armor and weapons are as much a part of them as their frozen flesh. Cold riders delight in perversion, slaughter, and the corruption of...

A chaotic evil cold fey creature, it's absolutely an Other. Also, its gear self-destructs on death. Truly vile creatures.
That is a very good low level Other. Wouldn't be surprised if they are mook tier Others, if a CR 8 murder machine can be considered a mook.

They could even ride Phantom Steeds that look like Giant Ice Spiders, so their names would still be appropriate.
 
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Canon Omake: The Spice of Magic Part VI
The Spice of Magic Part VI

Twenty Second Day of the Eleventh Month 293 AC
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Gyles was a man of insatiable curiosity. That wasn't to say he was cut from the same cloth as the oft-spoken and perhaps ill-fortuned Fleshcrafter, who had happily shed all notion of Maesterly presumption after having settled into the sort of company who might welcome their insight and even invite them to lecture a class on understanding and dealing with the undead, though perhaps coming at it from an unexpected angle. Most Initiates in the Shadow Tower would have presumed the necromancer would be going through an interrogation instead, not dictating theorem to a lecture hall filled with impressionable mages.

At least they would have the Headmistress to rein them in, should they veer too heavily off subject...

At any rate, when the invitation to take part in the expedition south to seek mystical rarities, if of the material variety, had come right to him, instead, rather than the other way around, he prepared incantations for a struggle with whatever bygone relic from a past age that might get unearthed and primed his ink and quill for extensive note-taking along the way.

"You do, of course, realize that it is not going to be all excitement and explosions we'll be coming along for, yes?" He asked the slightly older man with a hint of exasperation, for all their exuberance had made the Volantene sorcerer come across as a young lordling out on a lark.

"Obviously, good man, obviously," the mage, Daemion Taelaros, deflected, beaming at the handful of mages gathered at one end of the taproom, whether they stood off to the side or like Lord Riz'neth instead loomed larger than life at the head of the table, almost suffocating the area with the weight of his presence and will. You could always tell which side of the room the eccentric nobleman was speaking from, at least.

Ledgers and scrolls littered the table, scattered in-between the corner they had sequestered themselves, all of the less magically inclined amusingly sitting across from them at the opposite end, with the closest council Lord Baelon kept more toward the middle, undaunted by such strange company, a Little Valyrian quick with devices, alchemy and knives in equal measure standing up on the table, a Dothraki polishing his arakh forged from adamantine and bearing the subtle blaze of enchantment, an Ibbenese man balancing an axe against one shoulder and combing a hand through their beard, the tall spell-blade with eyes blazing and the notable absence of magic around them, for all the obviously magical accouterments not currently hidden by glamour.

Lord Baelon's manservant who was unlike their other encounters seemingly garbed for war, a odd juxtaposition Gyles had thought at first, to see a former slave standing steadfast beside their former master, armed with a blade and ready to defend him with their life.

"You'll be much assured if at least one of us is around always ready for a fight, eh? Hardly a bad thing on an adventure!" Daemion laughed, slapping Gyles on the back. The wizard sighed in response.

"Gentlemen, Wisdom Gyles is correct," Baelon interrupted magnanimously. "Ideally, we would do our best to avoid any unnecessary conflict, and we've certainly prepared well enough to make investments from our backers, and partners," he smiled toward Riz'neth, who didn't so much as twitch either of their twin heads, "...quite well placed." He gestured broadly at the room, a practiced speaker, someone who freely used magic to enhance their speech, or perhaps a bit of both.

Gyles wasn't quite yet skilled enough to make the assumption without wasting a use from his earring, and he'd gotten into the habit of managing his resources quite well compared to mages more like Wisdom Daemion's sort, just a tad more frivolous with what magics they used knowing they would have reserves that did not have to be carefully decided upon well in advance of casting them. That and unlike many mages newly come into their powers and just recently breaching the Third Circle, he personally found it rude when one assessed the auras lingering about a person without open invitation within the context of academic conversation.

He wasn't beyond rudeness, of course, if someone acted like they wanted you to look by how confident wearing a bit of magic openly made some, he was all too happy to point out short-sighted purchases to help the expedition manage its resources more effectively. What was amusing was how seriously men took him, given he was one of the handful of true experts on the subject coming along in the whole fleet. He was more reserved about that sort of thing in regards to other mages, however, unless he found them completely immune to courtesies given and irrespective of his own tact.

He had seen it so frequently that he had actually worked up a committee within the Scholarum specifically to discuss etiquette between peers, not just when reviewing each other's work, but basic manners which had yet to sublimate enough within the rapidly growing magical community of the Deep. It would be a while yet before it spread outside of its confines. He was aware that the Volantenes had their own etiquette which they followed, though that was more in evidence with how the mage near him openly disparaged the rather strict decorum expected of those who had mastered magic, however much he commented upon finding Gyles' barbarous mannerisms 'refreshing', rather than offensive.

"Guides I can pledge," Riz'neth responded to something Baelon had said with thoughts alone, though they purposefully directed their mind-speech to everyone nearby. "More support is outside of my means to provide. I will be busy in the Necropolis directing research. However..." They inclined one of their twin heads. "Consider the circumstances. It is doubtful that your presence here has gone unnoticed. You have not been subtle."

"You think King Viserys might take an interest in our fleet?" Baelon asked, surprised, an odd note in his voice, though his smile didn't slip. "I was of the understanding he had his own agents working in the South."

"Time is a precious resource and a mighty empire," Lord Riz'neth replied, simply. "Before which all must bow." Even one such as the Snake Lord, apparently. "I would have bargained the service of a champion of my people, else he had taken service already with the Crimson King."

"So he might weigh the scales in our favor," Baelon nodded, accepting that. "We planned this expedition in the understanding that we would have to forge ahead on our own, so we shouldn't get our hopes too high. We would eventually have to petition the King for help with infrastructure to support colonial later efforts anyway, and to fully take advantage of the profitability of the sites we decide upon."

"Let us not lose track of what we spoke of earlier," Gyles interrupted after catching Lord Baelon's eye and being waved on. "If we come across something truly ground-breaking, in all likelihood such a discovery will be accompanied by the possibility of unprecedented catastrophe. Standard procedure would be to avoid intruding on unknown ruins until they have been properly surveyed, at least on a surface level." And under no circumstances whatsoever to attempt looting one of them, but that was Investigator Baedar and Tobyis' problem to worry about, as far as Gyles was concerned.

"I agree with the hireling," The spell-blade, Armandir, spoke up brusquely for the first time, hand resting on their sword of Valyrian Steel, a relic or perhaps something scavenged off a battlefield. "While I will still take first claim of magical relics we dig up, I of course submit to all necessary inspections imposed by the Crown," he went on, speaking much more courteously to the two Investigators present. For whatever reason he seemed to regard the two men in the Inquisition as being more respectable than someone who sold their talent for profit, never mind that earning coin was a secondary concern of Gyles'. He could do that in the safety of Sorcerer's Deep, after all, quite respectably.

He was coming to lend his magic and expertise, but also to find something worth researching and formally complete his Journey of Wisdom, and hopefully build some credibility in the Scholarum with which he could leverage for patronage or collaboration.

Everything else besides keeping the expedition alive to return home with their respective prizes was rather secondary.

***​

Baelon drew a line between one point and another on the rough map spread out before the crowded gathering. Initial reactions were beyond muted, since what they had were no more than the vague topographical impressions provided by measurements taken by the Snake Lord and his scouts, and scattered as it was they wouldn't be useful once you deviated even a little, since threading the needle through one part of the jungle which was merely dangerous and another which was without any doubt certain death was the sort of balance upon a knife's edge that men made when they considered the sort of dangers sea travel often presented as rote.

Often, Baelon found, men made peace with death when they were consigned to the inevitable. Knowing that one simple misstep would likely result in an end of your own making was a harder pill to swallow for some, men used to being the masters of their domain or experienced in their chosen profession unused to the idea that there was some obstacle or plateau beyond their means to risk themselves against, without it having been surest folly. That the ending would likely be excruciatingly painful if one was unlucky something else entirely, so pride was unlikely to get in the way here, Baelon thought.

There were some serious measures that they could take for some of the stupider ways to die, however. A circle here and there on the map, around places in the jungle where burrowing beetles and flesh-eating worms were often located, marked at the edges where paths intersected, as that would be where they would rely on their guides' intuition more than reliable maps to decide when to break out the vermin repellent, or other markings for when it would be prudent to ready antidotes for poisons and unguents for plague.

By some stroke of good fortune Investigator Tobyis suggested corresponding with Sorcerer's Deep via a small pouch of Dragonglass sand through which whispering winds could blow through, that they could provide the expedition with accurate time and date at regular intervals, which if they kept accurate track of their own pace would allow them to draw more accurate maps and apply distance crossed to the formula.

They wouldn't be going out of their way to chart all of the jungle, but the routes they would have to pass through to come safely from one location to another? One figures if you have to make the journey more than once, you don't want to get lost finding your way back the next time.

"What about painted lizards," the man with a black sallet helm asked grimly, raising their visor to reveal a craggy face with two chips of ice for eyes and a red beard. He had been silent otherwise, the officer from the Inquisition doing nothing to disabuse the notion that one wouldn't enjoy coming across them in an alleyway in the dead of night. "Do we track that?"

Lord Riz'neth dipped his heads oddly. "There are migratory breeds," they warned, passing along drawings and notes of their own. "Plants and terrain are not an effective way to keep track of what beasts you will encounter in each regard, but these paths are home to some of the larger variants," he admitted. "Fire will turn away some... if they are not found to be stampeding in panic." There was an odd hitch in the thought projection. "Your 'crossbows' are interesting and effective, but they will be hard pressed to put down all but the pack hunters unless aimed accurately, or with intent to saturate the hide with volume of penetration."

"What about this," the soldier broke in, unshouldering his own large feycraft device. Some appreciative whistles came from the Myrish contingent in the room. The stormtrooper didn't even blink under the attention, entirely focused on the reptilian mage.

Lord Riz'neth extended a hand, and the weapon was passed across the table, each man stopping to examine it just a moment. They stared at the weapon, and some conversation must have passed between the two which excluded everyone else. "Yes," the soldier replied, then "no," and "yes, if you keep it clean and dry".

"Use minor wishcraft to do the latter regularly," Riz'neth responded afterwards. "They will work," he said a moment later. "If it is as you have spoken."

"It is." Laconic, aren't they? Baelon thought.

Riz'neth considered the man carefully, more than he had Baelon past the initial meetings in fact. "I would be interested in hearing of your battles," they said, not adding the unspoken 'if you should survive' to the sentence. It was abundantly clear.

"The Tinker Fey might get your custom soon, then, eh?" The soldier replied, a rare smile appearing on his face. More like a razor line. "Careful you only get what you bargain for."

"Obviously," the twin-headed sorcerer replied bluntly, more bemused than anything else.
 
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It's all coming to together, @Crake.

After tomorrow's meeting with Viserys, what else needs to be wrapped up before the expedition sets sail?
 
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