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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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I wondered what the moral stance of our current vote was, so I reread it.
"Brain Spider" is morally questionably for no reason other than its horrifying name.
 
Winning vote

[] Plan Gold and a Child's Faith
-[] Send Dany to seek out Elder Septa Maer in the guise of a beggar girl, relatively unknowing of the Seven and scared by the swirling rumours following the raid on the Smith's Sept.
--[] Apply full anti-True Seeing measures to Dany and ensure she has any social buffs she might need for this mission.
-[] Seek out Most Devout Ollidor, but not to arrange a meeting. At least not yet.
--[] Once Ollidor is located, surreptitiously determine what manner of magical paraphernalia he might possess, whether or not he is warded, and if possible, whether or not he has any magical talents of his own.
--[] If Viserys determines that it is feasible, use Brain Spider to thoroughly explore Ollidor's mind, examining any memories he feels are relevant and searching for how best to manipulate the man or simply to gain his trust.
---[] Depending on what we learn from the man will determine how we proceed, whether we attempt to arrange a meeting as Dywen, Viserys, or both.
 
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Part MMDCCCXVI: Lyre and Learning
  • Threadmarks
    • Lyre and Learning ​

    Twelfth Day of the Ninth Month 293 AC

    Where fiends and beasts are no more your purpose remains, the Conclave of the Faith, the fulcrum upon which millions of hearts might turn. Though you had been tempted to 'politely' approach Lucan caution wins out over curiosity and a desire to gloat. You remember well the deva's words and do not wish to test the man even in the midst of the city. While you would be well-served making him seem mad you would not sacrifice your word given to Lord Hightower for the cause, particularly as the man has personal troubles of his own to deal with.

    Ser Garth is not answering any letters. Perhaps the ravens have simply been blown off course, or mayhap for some darker reason, yet the Lord of Oldtown dares not leave his seat with the Conclave so close. Still, if nothing else, he has regained a sister. Lady Lynesse, Lynesse Hightower again as of today with Jorah's oath to the Watch, has grown more daring under her brother's watch, more willing to speak her mind in the open. Only time will tell if she ultimately decides to remain in Oldtown or return to Sorcerer's Deep, though with news of the Academy of Fine Arts opening on schedule next month, gathering the best and brightest minds of your fledgling empire, you suspect leaving will win out in the end.

    Establish University in Sorcerer's Deep (Economy, Engineering, Fine Arts, etc.) progress 19 + 40 = 69/61 (Complete)

    In the meantime however your attention is drawn to a far more exclusive, though in its own way perhaps no less exalted, institution. The Golden Lyre is a association with an ancient and storied tradition in Oldtown, a gentleman's club after the Essosi manner catering to the intellectual elite of the city, from scholarly nobles too high in the succession, or too attached to worldly matters to forge a chain, to poets and painters seeking recognition, to wealthy merchants looking to rub shoulders with both. Not precisely the place you had expected to find a man like Most Devout Ollidor, who is known for a rather loose interpretation of holy vows as much as his political acumen, but if he has been visiting brothels it was with utmost discretion.

    Thankfully for poetry recitals like the one taking place today the flame-carved ebony doors are open to more than members of the club, if such visitors make it past the inspection of the doorman of course. Though you had expected to pay a bribe you and Ser Richard are instead ushered through with naught but a peacebond to the hilt of your swords after a long look that you suspect sees more than flesh. Thankfully both of you are warded against simple uses of the Second Sight, though the experience is enough to make you cautious about using magic within the confines of the club.

    Within paintings of the Seven Holy Works of Hugor and the Journeys of Lomas Longstrider peer down from the ceiling while rich Qohorik tapestries cover the walls. Dark-liveried servants walk purposefully about, carrying trays of refreshments and messages festooned with ribbons. From the sound of things the members are not above a spot of drinking and merrymaking behind closed doors.

    You find Most Devout Ollidor at the recital, a fluted glass of Arbor Gold in one hand as he listens to the dramatic poetry declaimed by a young fresh-faced poet.

    Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.
    But why do we let our faithful friends, the associates
    and partners in our loss lie astonished in the oblivious
    pool, and not call them to share with us their part of this unhappy mansion?
    Perhaps once more we may rally arms to learn what may yet be regained in Heaven,
    or what more lost in Hell.     ​

    The Sorrows of the Fallen, an odd poem for a septon to be to be smiling upon, adapted from the Seven-Pointed Star but certainly not of it, the work of the Lame Poet Avrid adapts the tale of man's fall to temptation more in the style of Valyrian Epics, and while no one has gone so far as to call the text heretical, it is certainly frowned upon by many of the more severe priests for presenting the Adversary, a figure you suspect may be itself an echo of Asmodeus, Lord of the Ninth, into a light of tragic heroism. Fortunately there does not seem to be any actual infernal interference in the text, just the hand of a poet with theological aspirations, though after reading it through Mereth found, somewhat to her surprise, that she enjoyed it. You wonder what Septon Ollidor would say if you told him he shares his taste for literature with an actual fallen angel.

    Seeing the man better warded than even the Lannister agent you had met in the Opaline Vault, six auras, of which two of middling strength, you do not reach into the man's mind with magic, instead addressing him directly in High Valyrian, faintly accented with a Volantene accent, as one who has been long away from the place of his birth and used the tongue of art and culture often: "Strange to see such a one as you here Holy One, strange but encouraging, eh?"

    "I forgot my bag of ash and sackcloth," the impeccably dressed septon replies in dry humor. "I would address the circumstance of your presence, but I have not yet had the pleasure of your acquaintance."

    "Laer of Volantis," you reply, the name of your new mask quick upon the tongue. "A traveler and scholar new come to your fair city." You pause a moment. "The young man does not recite his own work?"

    "He will in a few minutes, but it is custom to first set the theme of the recital with a well known work," he explains graciously.

    "And that theme is faith?" you raise an eyebrow. "A bold choice under the circumstances."

    "Or taking advantage of the times," Ollidor shrugs. "Far be it from a man of the cloth to say the people are too concerned with the state of their souls, but I do wish some of them were less strident."

    "I have heard that the Flame Keeper of Volantis is a man much of a mind with you, counseling moderation, a mark of wisdom says I," you offer praise and a test all in one to see how far his tolerance extends.

    The septon nods, accepting the words without hesitation. "And one who has to keep the peace with the city's sorcerers from what I hear."

    And so you speak of Benerro and his doings, nothing secret, nothing that might mark you as having even met the man, but enough to make it clear the similarities are greater than would first appear, for while the septon before you is far less pious than the venerable Red Priest he is no less a man concerned with peace and stability. At one point he goes as far as saying: "Wine when drunk to excessiveness can turn men into beasts. Should we then swear all the winemakers into the service of the Seven?"

    Where before you had been certain from his reputation that Ollidor is loyal to Tywin Lannister, if only by virtue of the gold weighing down his pockets, but the more you learn of him the clearer it becomes that he is a traditionalist because tradition promises peace, the zeal of the High Septon, much less Brother Lucan, grates upon his ears.

    Of the doings of Sorcerer's Deep you ask but a little, not wishing to let your mask slip, but from what you can intuit of what Ollidor fears the most, both for his own safety and for the stability of the realm, is that you would fly upon a cloud of ruin like Maegor, set to avenge the Old Gods upon the New. You wonder how and when he had learned of the Old Gods wrath, or perhaps he had simply guessed.

    How do you seek to influence Most Devout Ollidor?

    [] Write in

    OOC: Brain Spider would have been too risky, so I just made a throw-away identity to talk to this guy in. I also took the chance to flesh out the Faith a little more in the background including, a expy of Paradise Lost and some hints of what Hugor was supposed to have done. He was more Moses crossed with Hercules in my vision than a Christ-like figure.
     
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    • egoo said:
    no offense, DP, but "schadenfreude" feels distinctly out of place in this narration.

    Its something that can be expected of modern narrator, not... Viserys.
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    Consider it a loan word from...hmm, not sure where the German expy of Planetos is located.
     
    Thread Service Announcement

    Now that we are well and past the latest bout of arguing I have an announcement to make, one I have waited so long with precisely so no one would feel singled out, this is not even specifically about just the last time we had an argument, but about all instances of 'salt'. I would like everyone to from now on be very careful of avoiding personal attacks. that is what turns the thing I at least love the most about this thread, lively discussion, into something that makes people angry and rightfully upset.

    I don't expect we will all succeed all the time, but when it does happen that a post comes too close too attacking the person you are discussing with not the argument please take a step back and reconsider. I can say from personal experience that no one comes here with ill will or a desire to ruin other people's fun. Please keep that in mind.

    I will do my best to remind people of that fact, but I cannot do it alone hence this message specifically delivered in a calm period so it can be seen and read on its own merits

    And with that back to our scheduled heresy and intrigue. :)
     
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    TalonofAnathrax said:
    I wondered what the moral stance of our current vote was, so I reread it.
    "Brain Spider" is morally questionably for no reason other than its horrifying name.
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    It just really proves the point that even the basic operational guidelines the party goes by is fairly morally dubious.

    It is hard to argue that it doesn't achieve results, and there's the old issue where most of the things practiced just out of the blue without background on a character's actions warrants a thorough violation of their privacy of thoughts and actions, turn out to be completely justified when we discover they planned to dirty bomb a city plaza, or turn babies into a man-eating crab clawed abomination, or just tortured cute fluffy animals on the weekends for kicks... who were made sentient by magical background radiation.

    DP did and still kinda does tend to justify some of the bullshit we do in hindsight because the people he ends up placing in our path are not just Planetos tier assholes, they are assholes by Erebus and Kor Phaeron and Fabius Bile standards.
     
    Snowfire said:
    Interesting.

    We can use this man.
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    How do we want to do it, though? He seems quite reasonable. Should we appeal to his desire for stability and obvious acceptance of magic? Outright bribe him in some manner?

    @DragonParadox The new Sept we're building in SD, is the old dude that inspired us to do it set to be the head Septon there? Or is that a position that is still open?

    If Ollidor likes the finer things in life and appreciates the arts, he couldn't ask for a better place than SD to serve the Faith.
     
    Goldfish said:
    @DragonParadox The new Sept we're building in SD, is the old dude that inspired us to do it set to be the head Septon there? Or is that a position that is still open?
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    He is set to be head septon yes, though being the king you could probably maneuver him out of the position quite easily. The Faith is used to being suborned by secular power (with the gravest instances arguably belonging to Baelor the Blessed)
     
    DragonParadox said:
    Seven Holly Works of Hugor
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    Holy


    DragonParadox said:
    Fortunately there does not seem to be any actual infernal interference in the text, just the hand of a poet with theological aspiration, though after reading it though Mereth found, somwhat toher surprise that she enjoyed it
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    Somewhat to her


    So this guy's like a representative of the Eastern Orthodox Church, Kyle's the Anglican, Danielle's faction's the Lutheran, the Riverlander's are Puritans, Lucan's Mormonism down to having magic powers, and the guy we rescued as Modern Protestantism? Can we setup the arguments for each sect as guidelines to get them arguing with each other?

    Also, @DragonParadox, did we ever select the Seven Knights for the Sept of Viserys?
     
    Goldfish said:
    How do we want to do it, though? He seems quite reasonable. Should we appeal to his desire for stability and obvious acceptance of magic? Outright bribe him in some manner?

    @DragonParadox The new Sept we're building in SD, is the old dude that inspired us to do it set to be the head Septon there? Or is that a position that is still open?

    If Ollidor likes the finer things in life and appreciates the arts, he couldn't ask for a better place than SD to serve the Faith.
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    Too much to offer right now. But I think, for someone having come from Volantis, we could mention how there's a Grant Sept under construction in Sorcerer's Deep. Someone intending to wipe away the New Gods in vengeance for the Old would not do such a thing. In background terms, whilst we fully intend to break the Seven, that doesn't involve destroying them. We need their faithful humbled, and their faith subordinate to the Crown. Beyond that, once justice as the Old Gods see it has been done, it matters little.

    So we approach this from a rational point of view, and if he brings up magic, point to the Golden Shields, the Lantern Bearers, etc. Magic is needed in these times, he clearly understands this on some level. If his facade holds up to deeper study, I could see him serving a role as a steadying influence within the Faith as it tries to rip itself apart. Note: I mean a steady influence on his specific idea of the Faith, not the Westeros-spanning unity that currently exists. Plan will be along in a bit.
     
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    I could swear we have read the Seven Pointed Star at some point already.

    Maybe before arguing with that asshole in Dorne under disguise as Doran's crafter-mage?
     
    Artemis1992 said:
    I could swear we have read the Seven Pointed Star at some point already.

    Maybe before arguing with that asshole in Dorne under disguise as Doran's crafter-mage?
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    Viserys has read the Seven Pointed Star before, yes, he's quoted and referenced scripture before, but he hasn't read all of the religious tracts and lore yet, of which there is a greater number which will likely be referenced at the Conclave searching for precedents.
     
    [X] A New Peace
    -[X] "It seems to me, Holy One, that one who wishes to see the Seven-As-One struck from the world in vengeance for the Old Gods of this land would prepare for such things in his own realm. Yet I was forced by circumstance to pass through the Stepstones on my way to these shores, and there I saw work on raising of a Sept of the Seven in the very heart the Dragon King's realm." Use a different title if it would be more in character. This is to show that the fear of wrath and judgement may not truly be sound.
    -[X] "It may just be the opinion of a humble scholar, but that does not seem the action of one who plans to see the Seven destroyed, though alas, I cannot be certain to say the same for my own city." Subtle reference to the current state of cold war between Volantis and Viserys' kingdom.
    -[X] "The return of magic has changed many things, and the nature of faith no less when some can now draw far more than comfort from the power of their prayers. Against that, I do not believe any set of traditions can truly endure. Yet I hope, as one of less martial bearing myself, that any change can be completed with a minimum of bloodshed. Surely that would be better for all our folk?" A suggestion of the idea of peace, with a wider implication that the Faith could find a moderate path acceptable to any would-be conqueror.
    --[X] If asked, explain that your desire for peace is founded in nothing more or less than a wish to prevent the destruction of knowledge. Life is precious, but understanding can be greater still, if it's understanding of the right things.

    Amusingly, all I want from this guy is to make him an ever stronger moderate whilst sounding out how deep his commitment to the Lannisters truly is. Does he see Viserys' victory as an ultimate loss condition for the Faith, or does he believe that a settlement could be reached?
     
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    @DragonParadox would you be up for doing a Dany interlude for her side of the last vote, or is that something you'd prefer to have happen offscreen? I'd just really like to see The Traitor Priestess for all intents and purposes troll an Elder Septa :lol
     
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