We live in a world where Divination spells are a thing. Deniability no longer exists.
Again. Explain to me why that is a problem for us when it never has hurt literally everyone else in the entire setting when smearing our name.
I don't mind subterfuge, @Azel, but I don't think it is warranted in this particular instance. Honesty here, when false claims can be so easily proven inaccurate, is just good sense.

I would rather maintain a reputation for honesty, even when the truth is less than helpful, so that when we need to tell a really outrageous lie it will be likely to be accepted as truth.
See above. Nobody ever trips over the lies and bullshit they throw out into the world. Not the Faith, not the Maesters, not Varys, not Tywin Lannister, not Mammon, not Illyrio, not Tiamat.

We are the only ones who refuse to engage in any kind of propaganda, always with this pointless argument about Divination making it oh so impossible.
 
Or we could tell the truth and use that as propaganda that actually favors us. Since you know, the Old Gods being able to raise people and being firmly in our corner is bound to draw the right kind of attention from everybody who wants somebody raised.

I wouldn't object much to rumors meant to mess with people as a sideline I guess.
 
First page updated adding here for ease of access. These are very old gods, reaching back to the very dawn of humanity but as can be seen in their tenets they had adapted to fit an agrarian warlike tribal society, hence their conflict with the Old Gods and ultimate fading from the world, though it does not seem to have been complete

Father Sky

The Storm God, Victory Bringer, Father of Battles

Alignment: True Neutral

Domains: Storm, War, Nobility

Known Supernatural Servitors: Air Elementals, Thunderbirds

The Church:
When the First Men first came to Westeros ranging across the Arm of Dorne it was the war priests of the Father sky who drove them forward, the sound of their great aurochs hide drums as the call of thunder. His were the berserkers who drove themselves into mad fervor that they might wrestle giants down and slay them, but to him gave honor also the cunning chief and sage who would see far for all that is lies under the heavens bright.

Tenets of the Faith:
From what Waymar can gleam of his dreams the Strom God whose daughter was Elenei and whose wrath only the Builder's works could turn aside bid his followers to be as he was fierce and savage in war, fair and even-handed in peace to kith and kin. Of course not all men agreed with the god's notion of fairness, but such has been the nature of men and gods since time's beginning.

Worshipers by Region: None known (Ceria Strom and Ysilla Royce have both received visitations and power likely originating from him)

Infrastructure:
None known (Former range throughout Westeros, most recent temples likely on the three Sisters, ancient center of worship in the Stormlands)

Mother Earth
The Hearth Keeper, The Bountiful One, Earthshaker

Alignment: True Neutral

Domains: Cavern, Family, Earth

Known Supernatural Servitors: Earth Elementals, Thunderbirds

The Church:
Little enough to you know of those who kept the fire burning in those long vanished holds of the First Men for none in your company hears an echo of their dreams. You know they were the keepers of ancient tales they they loved not war and the shedding of blood and were slow indeed to rise to anger but that even the fiercest chieftain would not lightly provoke them, for like the twisting of the earth their wrath could bring untold ruin.

Tenets of the Faith:
The act of cultivating the land and of cooking food thus obtained seemed to have been both sacred to Mother Earth and thus among the greatest sin one could commit in her eyes was leaving land to lie fallow once it had been claimed to the plow second only to disturbing the rest of the dead.

Worshipers by Region: None known

Infrastructure:
None known (Former range throughout Westeros, most recent temples likely on the Three Sisters, ancient center of worship in the Westerlands)
 
See above. Nobody ever trips over the lies and bullshit they throw out into the world. Not the Faith, not the Maesters, not Varys, not Tywin Lannister, not Mammon, not Illyrio, not Tiamat.

We are the only ones who refuse to engage in any kind of propaganda, always with this pointless argument about Divination making it oh so impossible.
And how many rulers of anything valuable or PCs buy the bullshit?
 
Or we could tell the truth and use that as propaganda that actually favors us. Since you know, the Old Gods being able to raise people and being firmly in our corner is bound to draw the right kind of attention from everybody who wants somebody raised.

I wouldn't object much to rumors meant to mess with people as a sideline I guess.
Missing the point. The issue I want to address with this piece of subterfuge is that the Seven, especially Lucan and the Most Devout, paint us as the literal Anti-Christ, with very little in regards to a counter-narrative being present.
 
Watch as the Mother herself shows up and calls us a liar.

Speaking for the gods is dangerous when they can speak por themselves perfectly well.
So you assume that Burny is fine with the little alterations we are making to his fate? Because he sure didn't try to stop us. Neither did he dispel the stubborn interpretation that we are his promised messiah.
And how many rulers of anything valuable or PCs buy the bullshit?
That's not the point. The point is the unwashed masses I would prefer not to have to turn into kindling before the Long Night.
 
Alright, it seems we need an actual WoG on this before it further escalates.
@DragonParadox, please drop hence right naow!!!

We, indeed, never took to narrative/counter-narrative fights, and everyone kept dropping shit on us without any consequence.
Would us trying to sway mindless masses in this way suddenly be a problem, when it never was for anyone else?
 
First page updated adding here for ease of access. These are very old gods, reaching back to the very dawn of humanity but as can be seen in their tenets they had adapted to fit an agrarian warlike tribal society, hence their conflict with the Old Gods and ultimate fading from the world, though it does not seem to have been complete

Father Sky

The Storm God, Victory Bringer, Father of Battles

Alignment: True Neutral

Domains: Storm, War, Nobility

Known Supernatural Servitors: Air Elementals, Thunderbirds

The Church:
When the First Men first came to Westeros ranging across the Arm of Dorne it was the war priests of the Father sky who drove them forward, the sound of their great aurochs hide drums as the call of thunder. His were the berserkers who drove themselves into mad fervor that they might wrestle giants down and slay them, but to him gave honor also the cunning chief and sage who would see far for all that is lies under the heavens bright.

Tenets of the Faith:
From what Waymar can gleam of his dreams the Strom God whose daughter was Elenei and whose wrath only the Builder's works could turn aside bid his followers to be as he was fierce and savage in war, fair and even-handed in peace to kith and kin. Of course not all men agreed with the god's notion of fairness, but such has been the nature of men and gods since time's beginning.

Worshipers by Region: None known (Ceria Strom and Ysilla Royce have both received visitations and power likely originating from him)

Infrastructure:
None known (Former range throughout Westeros, most recent temples likely on the three Sisters, ancient center of worship in the Stormlands)

Mother Earth
The Hearth Keeper, The Bountiful One, Earthshaker

Alignment: True Neutral

Domains: Cavern, Family, Earth

Known Supernatural Servitors: Earth Elementals, Thunderbirds

The Church:
Little enough to you know of those who kept the fire burning in those long vanished holds of the First Men for none in your company hears an echo of their dreams. You know they were the keepers of ancient tales they they loved not war and the shedding of blood and were slow indeed to rise to anger but that even the fiercest chieftain would not lightly provoke them, for like the twisting of the earth their wrath could bring untold ruin.

Tenets of the Faith:
The act of cultivating the land and of cooking food thus obtained seemed to have been both sacred to Mother Earth and thus among the greatest sin one could commit in her eyes was leaving land to lie fallow once it had been claimed to the plow second only to disturbing the rest of the dead.

Worshipers by Region: None known

Infrastructure:
None known (Former range throughout Westeros, most recent temples likely on the Three Sisters, ancient center of worship in the Westerlands)
Both of these gods seem super useful. I would be game for reviving them if they can be reasoned with. I mean seriously, Victory Bringer? I want that on our side.
 
So you assume that Burny is fine with the little alterations we are making to his fate? Because he sure didn't try to stop us. Neither did he dispel the stubborn interpretation that we are his promised messiah.
Maybe he sees how the wind is blowing and doesn't want to act against us right now, before the long night?

Much as I hate to say it, gods are mostly not stupid.
 
Both of these gods seem super useful. I would be game for reviving them if they can be reasoned with. I mean seriously, Victory Bringer? I want that on our side.
We have a decent chance at that with that shrine of his remembered by OG's now.
I've added a minor action for the next month, we'll visit and probably poke at the dream around the place.
...Maybe we should grab a few Storm-related characters with us just in case...
 
Why not both? Officially state that Rhaella was willingly brought back by powerful magic, and secretly spread various rumors on what really happened (gift from the Seven, homunculus taking Rhaella's form, etc.) Keep our enemies guessing.
I like QueenPally's idea, @Azel, @Artemis1992. Why don't we do both?

It's the time honored tradition of having your cake and eating it, too.
 
We have a decent chance at that with that shrine of his remembered by OG's now.
I've added a minor action for the next month, we'll visit and probably poke at the dream around the place.
...Maybe we should grab a few Storm-related characters with us just in case...
Let's not. Next month is already looking super bloated.
 
Missing the point. The issue I want to address with this piece of subterfuge is that the Seven, especially Lucan and the Most Devout, paint us as the literal Anti-Christ, with very little in regards to a counter-narrative being present.

I think the issue is that you would be explicitly lying making it that much easier for someone hostile like say Lucan to push a person on the fence (lord PC etc...) onto his side by showing you lying and blaspheming the Seven (which this would be from a certain PoV) . I'm not saying if this is a good or a bad idea necessarily just trying to make things clearer for the sake of communication.
 
Maybe he sees how the wind is blowing and doesn't want to act against us right now, before the long night?

Much as I hate to say it, gods are mostly not stupid.
If that is the case, then the Mother is more then likely to come to the same conclusion. She apparently is already working under that paradigm, refraining from stirring the shit-bowl of Westeros with her own Chosen instead of waiting for the war that truly matters.
I like QueenPally's idea, @Azel, @Artemis1992. Why don't we do both?

It's the time honored tradition of having your cake and eating it, too.
I would put together a compromise vote, but right now the other side argues that daring to try to spread a lies gets us immediately smote.
 
[X] Azel
//
With the number of ridiculous rumors we know about, I don't see how disseminating this one should hurt.
 
I think the issue is that you would be explicitly lying making it that much easier for someone hostile like say Lucan to push a person on the fence (lord PC etc...) onto his side by showing you lying and blaspheming the Seven (which this would be from a certain PoV) . I'm not saying if this is a good or a bad idea necessarily just trying to make things clearer for the sake of communication.
Alright, so everyone can lie their assess off about us as much as they want, but if we spread one little lie, everyone will see through it and see it as proof that we are, in fact, Demon Hitler That Worships Devils.

-_-

[X] Artemis1992
 
So you assume that Burny is fine with the little alterations we are making to his fate? Because he sure didn't try to stop us. Neither did he dispel the stubborn interpretation that we are his promised messiah.

I read that less as accepting of our changes and more hedging his bets. On the one hand yes we're altering his portfolio, but on the other hand he literally gets a Mythic Dragon Sorcerer as his Jesus.

It's like giving up hamburgers to get a Gundam.
 
I mean seriously, Victory Bringer? I want that on our side.

... don't put your hopes up. Everybody prays for their god to bring them victory, so it is natural that all victories are attributed to him.

Well, maybe not the Blind Vegan God, he was a pussy and likely surrendered so that nobody died. But you get the point.
 
I think the issue is that you would be explicitly lying making it that much easier for someone hostile like say Lucan to push a person on the fence (lord PC etc...) onto his side by showing you lying and blaspheming the Seven (which this would be from a certain PoV) . I'm not saying if this is a good or a bad idea necessarily just trying to make things clearer for the sake of communication.
Viserys wouldn't say that. That would be a rumor we start.
[X] Spread the following rumor: Rhaellas return is clearly a miracle granted by the Mother, both for her heartfelt desire to return to her children and as a favor bestowed by the Seven on Viserys Targaryen to dispel the vicious rumors and godless hatred leveled at him by those parts of the Faith that have taken to preach with Lannister gold instead of the Seven Pointed Star.
 
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[X] Spread the following rumor: Rhaellas return is clearly a miracle granted by the Mother, both for her heartfelt desire to return to her children and as a favor bestowed by the Seven on Viserys Targaryen to dispel the vicious rumors and godless hatred leveled at him by those parts of the Faith that have taken to preach with Lannister gold instead of the Seven Pointed Star.
 
... don't put your hopes up. Everybody prays for their god to bring them victory, so it is natural that all victories are attributed to him.

Well, maybe not the Blind Vegan God, he was a pussy and likely surrendered so that nobody died. But you get the point.
I don't want him for his effectiveness. I just love the name.

Also, @DragonParadox, we've got our undead relative Laenor Targaryen chilling presumably in the Shadow Tower until we can find time to return him to life. Would he be willing to be a dragon rider for us?
 
Alright, so everyone can lie their assess off about us as much as they want, but if we spread one little lie, everyone will see through it.

-_-

[X] Artemis1992

No of course not you guys can and have used the lies other people told about you to leverage trust in just that manner. Every time you brought a lord to SD to show them around the lack of demons and blood drinking trees has helped your case.

I'm not saying your proposal is a bad idea just that it may have unwanted consequences, it will certainly have wanted ones too. That is a good propaganda point.
 
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