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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Goldfish said:
Damn, that must be a pretty serious mystery if we can't brute Force the check with our buffs.
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I don't think he puts full buffs.

Crake said:
Yrael told us that he did not know, and our Sense Motive was high enough to tell he was actually legitimately distressed over not having any clue what happened to the Upper Planes.

So I'm going to guess that the Archons he was summoning were scattered elsewhere out in the Planes. And that they certainly weren't organized until Yrael recruited them.
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Insightful AF, we may very well be able to gather the largest congregation of Upper Planes outsiders, making PoB (and our Empire) the defacto home base and central authority.

Nice.
 
Man Willas is not gonna have a good time at Braavos. Going there thinking he's trying to make an alliance with Viserys and get Marg married to Viserys but all he is going to get is Dragoned on and basically told we own his home.
 
mrsean22 said:
Man Willas is not gonna have a good time at Braavos. Going there thinking he's trying to make an alliance with Viserys and get Marg married to Viserys but all he is going to get is Dragoned on and basically told we own his home.
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Honestly this is mostly a bit of a display of political brinkmanship. Sure we can afford to purchase those debts but the same constraints which prevent the Tyrells from collecting on any of the debts they've loaned out (lack of influence in those territories and no force projection) is the same on the board for us, at least in the general vein of things. If someone looked at all of our forces arrayed now, a gamble to consolidate power with some of our other enemies on the continent might be a viable counter-ultimatum.

Which is why we're backing our bargaining position with other threats. While purchasing the debts and holding it over their head won't be useful until we've actually re-conquered Westeros (where obligate military force is in place to ensure repayment), without making it implicit that we can reveal to anyone who would support the Tyrells that they're nothing more than spent pawns of Fey who are fully intending on selling "the souls of good honest Reachmen and their allies to Devils for power, wealth and influence", this entire meeting is otherwise theater.

It also places a lot of stock on the two following things:

A) Viserys' reputation. Finally a use for people making us out to be the BBEG of the setting. If you have no problems with allying with shitheels like the Court of Stars, Viserys Targaryen seems like a golden boy by comparison.
B) Tyrell's fear of their current position not being one that can be recovered from with help from either the Fey (who clearly do not care enough about their well-being to lift a hand for them) or the Lannisters (same, maybe worse in some ways).
 
Crake said:
Which is why we're backing our bargaining position with other threats
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Like just teleporting there, killing the devil who had been sabotaging their finances, and then asking for some tea and biscuits.

"M-M'lord, Viserys Targaryen wants to see you."
"Oh, good, good. Did he send one of those fancy magical Ravens of his?"
"No milord, he is here."
"What do you mean by 'here'?"
"Here."
 
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tarrangar said:
That seems kind of high, I would think 12% yearly interest, would be what they charged for high-risk loans, with families like the Tyrells, were it's almost assured they will be able to repay it, I would think the rate would be somewhat lower.

12% mean the loan is more than doubled every decade, that's the kind of interest, you charge to people, were you see there's a real if low chance, they will be unable to pay it back.

If there's more than a low chance the interest would of course be even higher, but that goes both ways, part of how an interest rate is calculated, is by the risk the bank is taking lending to you, 12% is the kind of interest you charge someone with good credit, but not almost perfect credit, the Tyrells with how much secure income they have, should have that almost perfect credit, which mean there's almost no risk in loaning them money, which combined with the big sums they are loaning, should mean they could get a much better rate than the Iron Banks standard.

Of course Garth could have just failed to negotiate the interest rate, but considering he's known as a competent Stewart, not at least token negotiating it would have been suspicious.
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Honestly, 12% APR seems pretty reasonable that we are effectively lending to a number of private individuals (the Tyrells) with most of their assets in real estate rather than a corporation or a provincial government due to the lack of checks and balances on their financial decisions (shareholders, voters, laws..etc). As a private individual, you are probably paying anywhere from 12-20% annually on your credit cards (in North America) and that's with good or excellent credit. On the other hand, the average annual bond rate for a 10 year Provincial bond in Canada (a pretty stable country) is around 5%. So considering the lack of availability of lending and the higher chance of default, 12% is perfectly reasonable.

If anything, we should be charging more considering we just found out that the family has a substantial amount of bad debt and a recent history of reckless spending (sure they were manipulated by a devil, but it still damages their credit score) as this would be information the Iron Bank didn't incorporate the 12% interest rate.
 
Crake said:
Honestly this is mostly a bit of a display of political brinkmanship. Sure we can afford to purchase those debts but the same constraints which prevent the Tyrells from collecting on any of the debts they've loaned out (lack of influence in those territories and no force projection) is the same on the board for us, at least in the general vein of things. If someone looked at all of our forces arrayed now, a gamble to consolidate power with some of our other enemies on the continent might be a viable counter-ultimatum.

Which is why we're backing our bargaining position with other threats. While purchasing the debts and holding it over their head won't be useful until we've actually re-conquered Westeros (where obligate military force is in place to ensure repayment), without making it implicit that we can reveal to anyone who would support the Tyrells that they're nothing more than spent pawns of Fey who are fully intending on selling "the souls of good honest Reachmen and their allies to Devils for power, wealth and influence", this entire meeting is otherwise theater.

It also places a lot of stock on the two following things:

A) Viserys' reputation. Finally a use for people making us out to be the BBEG of the setting. If you have no problems with allying with shitheels like the Court of Stars, Viserys Targaryen seems like a golden boy by comparison.
B) Tyrell's fear of their current position not being one that can be recovered from with help from either the Fey (who clearly do not care enough about their well-being to lift a hand for them) or the Lannisters (same, maybe worse in some ways).
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Pretty much this. The goal is to impress on the Tyrells that we don't fear them or their Fey allies, which is why we didn't nicely court them. Instead we chewed them out, making it clear that we don't need them, and that we very much will collect on old debts.

The other side are naked threats. We show them that their potentially ruinous fiscal troubles are nothing for us. Their little rainbow goons are nothing more then a fruity copy of Roberts white goons for us.

Now they know the stakes and the price of going with us or against us. Let's see if they understood.
 
Artemis1992 said:
What we propably shouldn't mention is that they are slightly more interesting to us, as powerful Fey are rare captives for us and we'd love to do some science on them.
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Yeah, it would be rather rude to point out to the Fey that we want to vivisect them, mulch them up for templates and feed the remains to our pagan gods.

I mean, everyone knows that this is exactly what we want to do, but it's still rude to point it out.
 
Azel said:
Yeah, it would be rather rude to point out to the Fey that we want to vivisect them, mulch them up for templates and feed the remains to our pagan gods.

I mean, everyone knows that this is exactly what we want to do, but it's still rude to point it out.
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Is pagan a term in westeros? I know heretic and false gods are but is pagan?
 
Azel said:
Pretty much this. The goal is to impress on the Tyrells that we don't fear them or their Fey allies, which is why we didn't nicely court them. Instead we chewed them out, making it clear that we don't need them, and that we very much will collect on old debts.

The other side are naked threats. We show them that their potentially ruinous fiscal troubles are nothing for us. Their little rainbow goons are nothing more then a fruity copy of Roberts white goons for us.

Now they know the stakes and the price of going with us or against us. Let's see if they understood.
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That will be emphasized when their fey allies ask them to intercede on their behalf to get back their prince.
Azel said:
Yeah, it would be rather rude to point out to the Fey that we want to vivisect them, mulch them up for templates and feed the remains to our pagan gods.

I mean, everyone knows that this is exactly what we want to do, but it's still rude to point it out.
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You forgot to mention the vulnerabilites research, and the side-projects like replacing the fiend with a fey when producing steel.
 
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@Azel
By the way, the first and simplest action to take before researching more exotic VS-variants would propably be to use different types of Fiends (Demon, Daemon, Div, Rakshasa) and compare them to the devil-based steel we already made.

It would already tell us a lot to see if this creates minor differences or if the primary component ( the Evil in this case) overrides any secondary components and results in the exactly same product.

Particularly it would tell us if altering details matters at all, or if we should neglect those as a waste of time and only work in broad categories.
 
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MTB said:
That will be emphasized when their fey allies ask them to intercede on their behalf to get back their prince.

You forgot to mention the vulnerabilites research, and the side-projects like replacing the fiend with a fey when producing steel.
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You know I might be less weirded out by wanting to use fey to create valyrian steel substitutes. If we also started sacrificing humans no matter the cause of execution or even if just used as funerary rights to sacrifice their hd to the old gods. Cause I understand devils they are universally evil if not changed alignment by some magical force. But fey range just as often in disposition as humans do. No hypocrisy in our wonderful empire here we sacrifice everyone for parts.

I honestly do want to change funerary traditions to all the citizen hd being sacrificed to the old gods.
 
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Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Mar 22, 2019 at 4:10 AM, finished with 215 posts and 17 votes.
  • [X] Plan Wrapping Things Up For Now
    -[X] Speak with Erren Florent
    --[X] Inform him about the involvement of the Fey in his uncles actions unless Dany already took care of that.
    --[X] Give him the broad overview that the Tyrells are in cahoots with the Court of Stars and wrapped tightly in some unspecified bargain with them.
    --[X] Ask him to buy the title to the loan his uncle has given to the Tyrells.
    ---[X] Loan sum: 550,000 IM
    ---[X] Interest for 1st year: 69,753.77 IM
    ---[X] Total cost: 619,753.77 IM
    --[X] See if you can prod him into pledging his support for the invasion.
    -[X] Speak with Lady Uraka of the Iron Bank
    --[X] Inform her about the Tyrells financial troubles, so that the Iron Bank won't give them any loans they would default on.
    --[X] Buy the title to the loan the Iron Bank has given the Tyrells.
    ---[X] Loan sum: 810,000 IM
    ---[X] Interest for 1st year: 102,728.27 IM
    ---[X] Processing Fee (1%): 9,127.28 IM
    ---[X] Total cost: 921,855.55 IM
    --[X] Inform her about the meeting on the 15th. We need their most warded room. If that happens to be a vault, that's fine.
    -[X] While you are in Braavos, visit the Orphne court.
    --[X] Have some small-talk first to find out what they have been up to lately.
    -[X] Also collect Day of Change sacrifices from the Silver Eye. We haven't done so for 3 months.
    -[X] Loan totals:
    --[X] Total money spent: 1,541,609.32 IM
    --[X] Total Tyrell debt bought: 1,532,482.04 IM
    [X] Mage Fight: Sealord Edition
    [X] Ask more questions of the fey
    -[X] How is your growth related to these stories you tell? For Glyra it's obvious that her "balancing the scales" makes her stronger, but for Moonsong it has ever been the story of her deeds, not the deed itself that advanced her power. and the Old Glyra grew via cannibalism, which has little to do with the mischief and bloody slapstick that was her daywork
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MTB said:
That will be emphasized when their fey allies ask them to intercede on their behalf to get back their prince.
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Fey & Mace: "We need your help with-"
Mace: "You go first."
Fey: "We need your help to get our prince back from that Targaryen pest."
Mace: "... We need yours to not get ruined by him."
Fey & Mace:
 
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Azel said:
Fey & Mace: "We need your help with-"
Mace: "You go first."
Fey: "We need your help to get our prince back from that Targaryen pest."
Mace: "... We need yours to not get ruined by him."
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Fey ambassador: "We'd like to buy the debt of the Tyrells."
Viserys: "What do you offer?"
Fey ambassador: "We are open to a mutually beneficial settlement."
Viserys: "So you offer a lot of empty words. As usual. Not interested."
-------
Mace: "Your grace, would it be possible to let us handle your fey prisoner, that would strengthen our position versus the Fey."
Viserys: "I think I keep him, that strengthens my position when talking to you or the fey."
 
DragonParadox said:
Probably in a few days. He is a spymaster in the middle of a war.
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Part of our talks should be about establishing a emergency communication channel that we can use to drop these things at a moments notice.

He should be rather receptive to that idea once he learns that the emergency we got wind of is a dirty bomb heading straight for Amun Kelisk.
 
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