Remove ads

A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

Reader mode
egoo said:
So...
Before the festival is over we've got to get:
1) A talk with that shaitan Spymaster, mostly about war efforts and what we've learned about the Doomship.

@DragonParadox, how soon can we expect someone actually comin, over us having sent a message about critically important strategic information to our extrapolate allies?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Crake said:
Actually the Djinni spymaster (AKA Embra's Dad).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This should really be done ASAP, @DragonParadox. Tomorrow maybe?

We informed Embra's father of the importance of the information we have to share. I can't see him delaying on that for long at all.
 
DragonParadox said:
It's 1%/month so 12.7%/year which is what I charged you guys. I had not not considered compound interest.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And that's why I try not to bother you with this. :V
Using the exact values for this.

[X] Plan Wrapping Things Up For Now
-[X] Speak with Erren Florent
--[X] Inform him about the involvement of the Fey in his uncles actions unless Dany already took care of that.
--[X] Give him the broad overview that the Tyrells are in cahoots with the Court of Stars and wrapped tightly in some unspecified bargain with them.
--[X] Ask him to buy the title to the loan his uncle has given to the Tyrells.
---[X] Loan sum: 550,000 IM
---[X] Interest for 1st year: 69,753.77 IM
---[X] Total cost: 619,753.77 IM
--[X] See if you can prod him into pledging his support for the invasion.
-[X] Speak with Lady Uraka of the Iron Bank
--[X] Inform her about the Tyrells financial troubles, so that the Iron Bank won't give them any loans they would default on.
--[X] Buy the title to the loan the Iron Bank has given the Tyrells.
---[X] Loan sum: 810,000 IM
---[X] Interest for 1st year: 102,728.27 IM
---[X] Processing Fee (1%): 9,127.28 IM
---[X] Total cost: 921,855.55 IM
--[X] Inform her about the meeting on the 15th. We need their most warded room. If that happens to be a vault, that's fine.
-[X] While you are in Braavos, visit the Orphne court.
--[X] Have some small-talk first to find out what they have been up to lately.
-[X] Also collect Day of Change sacrifices from the Silver Eye. We haven't done so for 3 months.
-[X] Loan totals:
--[X] Total money spent: 1,541,609.32 IM
--[X] Total Tyrell debt bought: 1,532,482.04 IM

And this is what happens when you calculate interest up front. Suddenly the sum that is slightly below the cash reserves of the Tyrells is slightly above.

Meaning that we can tell Wyllas up front that we do in fact own everything they have. To say nothing about what would happen if we spread among the Faith and to the Lannisters that the Tyrells are not solvent.
 
Last edited:
Azel said:
And this is what happens when you calculate interest up front. Suddenly the sum that is slightly below the cash reserves of the Tyrells is slightly above.

Meaning that we can tell Wyllas up front that we do in fact own everything they have. To say nothing about what would happen if we spread among the Faith and to the Lannisters that the Tyrells are not solvent.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Reminder that the Tyrells lost. In the most absolute way.

THEY LOST!

*maniacal laughter*
 
To be fair to the Tyrells they still most definitely have a positive net worth. But when the only serious possible source of liquidity is us or part of our kingdom... Well, poor planning that.
 
[X] Azel

For real though, once we conquer Westeros we may very well need to establish the basics of a bond market to help encourage investment/development. Infrastructure bonds and/or Municipal bonds (those mostly for hereditary landholders) would work miracles for helping us accomplish our goals. The only question is if anybody in the Ironbank or the Companions sees the positive use to debt that is opposite to how we have been wielding it. It would also help prevent our Lords from being blackmailed financially. We have already started working on the basics of a centralized monetary system and stockmarket.
 
"I gotcha now, Willy! GOTCHA BY THEM WEEDS!"

"I feel like this analogy would be more appropriate in more... golden company."

"You're golden enough... or were, as they say."
 
Deliste said:
We had all but completely forgotten the Inception mechanic of Dragon Dreams, we shyed too hard early in the quest when it was a real risk to go deeper.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I have not forgotten Dragon Dreams.

We used it early on to great effect, in unfucking the early build choices. In fact, we crit the first time we did it, and got Draconic Senses for free.

But it was designed so you never get much better than fifty or sixty percent success change, and more errors compound and death-spiral your build.
 
DragonParadox said:
12% yearly interest is the Iron Bank standard the minimum lifetime for these sorts of sums is 1 year.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That seems kind of high, I would think 12% yearly interest, would be what they charged for high-risk loans, with families like the Tyrells, were it's almost assured they will be able to repay it, I would think the rate would be somewhat lower.

12% mean the loan is more than doubled every decade, that's the kind of interest, you charge to people, were you see there's a real if low chance, they will be unable to pay it back.

If there's more than a low chance the interest would of course be even higher, but that goes both ways, part of how an interest rate is calculated, is by the risk the bank is taking lending to you, 12% is the kind of interest you charge someone with good credit, but not almost perfect credit, the Tyrells with how much secure income they have, should have that almost perfect credit, which mean there's almost no risk in loaning them money, which combined with the big sums they are loaning, should mean they could get a much better rate than the Iron Banks standard.

Of course Garth could have just failed to negotiate the interest rate, but considering he's known as a competent Stewart, not at least token negotiating it would have been suspicious.
 
tarrangar said:
That seems kind of high, I would think 12% yearly interest, would be what they charged for high-risk loans, with families like the Tyrells, were it's almost assured they will be able to repay it, I would think the rate would be somewhat lower.

12% mean the loan is more than doubled every decade, that's the kind of interest, you charge to people, were you see there's a real if low chance, they will be unable to pay it back.

If there's more than a low chance the interest would of course be even higher, but that goes both ways, part of how an interest rate is calculated, is by the risk the bank is taking lending to you, 12% is the kind of interest you charge someone with good credit, but not almost perfect credit, the Tyrells with how much secure income they have, should have that almost perfect credit, which mean there's almost no risk in loaning them money, which combined with the big sums they are loaning, should mean they could get a much better rate than the Iron Banks standard.

Of course Garth could have just failed to negotiate the interest rate, but considering he's known as a competent Stewart, not at least token negotiating it would have been suspicious.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There are multiple counter-arguments to this:
- medieval lending practices involved higher interest rates then in our time, since the volatility of a claim couldn't be assessed as easily
- there are far fewer money lenders around then in modern times, especially for sums so high
- the Brachina explicitly took shitty deals to bleed the Tyrells
- the credit score of people on Viserys Targaryens shit-list can't be that great
 
tarrangar said:
That seems kind of high, I would think 12% yearly interest, would be what they charged for high-risk loans, with families like the Tyrells, were it's almost assured they will be able to repay it, I would think the rate would be somewhat lower.

12% mean the loan is more than doubled every decade, that's the kind of interest, you charge to people, were you see there's a real if low chance, they will be unable to pay it back.

If there's more than a low chance the interest would of course be even higher, but that goes both ways, part of how an interest rate is calculated, is by the risk the bank is taking lending to you, 12% is the kind of interest you charge someone with good credit, but not almost perfect credit, the Tyrells with how much secure income they have, should have that almost perfect credit, which mean there's almost no risk in loaning them money, which combined with the big sums they are loaning, should mean they could get a much better rate than the Iron Banks standard.

Of course Garth could have just failed to negotiate the interest rate, but considering he's known as a competent Stewart, not at least token negotiating it would have been suspicious.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We are talking medieval times and a market that has not been developed at all, with monopolic or at least oligopolic tendencies.

And it also depends on factors like the availability of money to lend. Here the goverment is paying 84% anual effective rates to banks while inflation will be like 40% at most.

EDIT: Baatezu and their hellish ninja ways won again.
 
Azel said:
There are multiple counter-arguments to this:
- medieval lending practices involved higher interest rates then in our time, since the volatility of a claim couldn't be assessed as easily
- there are far fewer money lenders around then in modern times, especially for sums so high
- the Brachina explicitly took shitty deals to bleed the Tyrells
- the credit score of people on Viserys Targaryens shit-list can't be that great
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
1 Yeah they involved higher rates than in our time, but DragonParadox explicitly noted that 12% was standard rate, and the Tyrells should be getting better than standard rates.
2 yeah which is part of why the interest are higher than in modern time.
3 which might mean, that it would only have negotiated the interest down by 1-2%, when a good negotiator could probably get it down by 4% or more, but it shouldn't mean they didn't negotiate at all, intentionally making mistakes in the negotiations is one thing, but not negotiating at all, is the kind of suspicious behavior the Brachina would try to avoid.
4 As far as I know the fact that the Tyrells are on our shit-list is a well-kept secret, and it's only very recently that anyone but us have learned it, and these loans were probably negotiated at least a few months ago.
Tomcost said:
We are talking medieval times and a market that has not been developed at all, with monopolic or at least oligopolic tendencies.

And it also depends on factors like the availability of money to lend. Here the goverment is paying 84% anual effective rates to banks while inflation will be like 40% at most.

EDIT: Baatezu and their hellish ninja ways won again.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If the Iron Banks normal rate was 15%, then I could see the Tyrells getting 12%, but I just can't see someone with as good credit as the Tyrells getting the standard rate, that rate is for reasonably reliable customers, not for extremely reliable customers.
 
Last edited:
The deal is intercontinental and there is no way they could perform proper Due Diligence well enough to know the risks. So even assuming they are surprisingly modern in their practices they would just build in some wiggleroom and fudge the number high, especially with the added risk of magic returning. All of the added risk factors make it likely that they negotiated down to the standard rate.
 
It could not have been a well-kept secret if practically anyone could see plain as day that Viserys "Politial Acumen" Targaryen would have to be blind, deaf and dumb to think House Tyrell is loyal to him.

As in, it does not take a genius to guess that exploiting the Tyrells before they could potentially form the central counterweight to a restoration (everybody underestimates the Dornish... even the politically savvy, to be fair Dorne is not really that powerful compared to most other realms, it is just a huge mire that no one can easily conquer).

And that besides, @Azel is referring to the loans the devil made out to people, not the loans that House Tyrell took. Meaning all of the loans given were to factions that specifically are our enemies, as in are defined, on the Mark, by their hatred of us.

From radical Red Priests to Slaver Houses in Lys (half of which we plucked, root and stem), there wasn't a person on that list who wasn't either a close ally of ours (Braavos) who they were intending to force the Tyrells to default on, or an enemy of ours they were hoping would bother us more with the funds than not.

Also, with how much Varys helped himself to that gold pile, don't be surprised when we find F!Aegon and his crew equipped to all be at least ECL +1 or +2 and have WBLomancy out the ying yang.

Also look forward to magic weapons used in schemes like that stupid idea of theirs to pin the blame on us with their Darkenbeast experimental leavings, something with so little credibility because it makes no sense, no one would believe, except those who would happily tarnish our reputation further.

Anyway, the point is that it would be hellishly easy to get "standard business rates" just by having Garth come by and act appropriately snobbish about taking money from money-grubbing Essosi.
 
When viserys becomes a repo man how quickly do you think rumors of taking pounds of flesh shakesperian style are going to pop up? People will probably take the pound of flesh very literally.
 
ryuan said:
We aren't being literal?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean I want it to be what's the point of wasting bodies of people when they die? Id honestly like if we changed funerary traditions so that the bodies of people are put near the trees of the old gods as sacrifices without pissing everyone off. I mean things like the long night should convince people to stop burying their ducking dead and getting rid of the corpses.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top