I still want a pet Lich one day.

The problem is finding a Lich that doesn't hate being a Lich. It's an annoyingly common problem.

Purely mechanically in 3.5e there is nothing necessarily evil about the process of becoming a lich. Aside from the cosmology... And then there's the fact that there is a necromancy spell that lets you swap bodies. Imagine the infiltration potential of stealing our particularly evil enemies bodies before sacrificing their souls to the gods...

Just... I mean... High level necromancy is pure concentrated bullshit in its own way.
 
Purely mechanically in 3.5e there is nothing necessarily evil about the process of becoming a lich. Aside from the cosmology... And then there's the fact that there is a necromancy spell that lets you swap bodies. Imagine the infiltration potential of stealing our particularly evil enemies bodies before sacrificing their souls to the gods...

Just... I mean... High level necromancy is pure concentrated bullshit in its own way.
The problem is in this setting, negative energy generally corrupts you with hatred of life. This is a very established problem in the quest, and not one easily ignored. Not to mention the Old Gods' hateboner for undead, which happens to be why Sallosh is probably never going to get a Weirwood Heart Tree of their own.

I'd love a pet Lich, but it'd need to not be insane before we recruit it.
 
The problem is in this setting, negative energy generally corrupts you with hatred of life. This is a very established problem in the quest, and not one easily ignored. Not to mention the Old Gods' hateboner for undead, which happens to be why Sallosh is probably never going to get a Weirwood Heart Tree of their own.

I'd love a pet Lich, but it'd need to not be insane before we recruit it.

I mean there is also the fact that it requires an epic level spell and the ritual is hideously expensive. There is no way that we are likely to find one outside of the Others, and I highly doubt we would ever put in the time and absurd resources to create one or even acquire a pet necromancer and get them to epic levels. Much less the research that would have to be done to stop the corrupting influences. Its an amusing pipe dream, but that is all.
 
Eternal Apotheosis
Source PCS:OR

School necromancy [evil]; Level 9
Casting Time 9 hours
Components V, S, M (incense made from ground-up bits of undeadcreatures), F (phylactery worth at least 120,000 gp), SC (at least 1, up to 21; see text)

Skill Checks Knowledge (arcana) DC 34, 3 successes; Knowledge (religion) DC 34, 3 successes; Spellcraft DC 34, 3 successes
Range primary caster
Duration instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

Backlash All secondary casters take 20d6 points of damage. Those slain are reduced to dust.
Failure The primary caster becomes a forsaken lich, doomed to inevitable destruction in 1d10 days.

EFFECT

The depraved path to becoming a lich is a deeply personal experience for those who dare tread it. All spellcasters seeking such a goal must spend months, and more frequently years, gathering eldritch knowledge and conducting fell experiments to research the myriad routes to undeath. Even then, it is exceedingly rare for two liches to have achieved immortality in the exact same way, although their motivations—incredible power without the limitations of a mortal body—are often quite similar.

This ritual represents just one way some liches have transferred their souls into phylacteries. Other rituals tied to lichdom involve bargains or liaisons with evil outsiders, caster-created alchemical tinctures infused with the energy of loved ones' souls, and other such trying necessities. Although heinously evil, the eternal apotheosis occult ritual is perhaps the most direct way to achieve lichdom.

The primary caster must begin this incantation at dusk.

The ritual must be performed in a place of significance to the caster and is typically the site where she began her descent into evil, or a site where she committed a great atrocity. Unlike other occult rituals, the secondary casters are simply fodder for the necromantic energies unleashed by the aspiring lich; they do not contribute to the ritual beyond taking the damage of the ritual's backlash. Unlike with normal occult rituals, these secondary casters do not need to be willing participants, but they do need to be within close range (25 feet + 2 feet per character level of the primary caster) of the primary caster for the duration of the ritual. For every seven secondary casters, the ritual's level is reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 6th level), the casting time is reduced by 1 hour, and the number of skill checks required decreases by one.

When reducing the ritual's level in this manner, the primary caster can choose which check or checks are eliminated. The primary caster also receives a +1 bonus on the required skill checks for every four secondary casters, as normal.

Casting this ritual funnels raw and very painful necromantic energy through the primary caster, possibly eviscerating all of the secondary casters in the process. Successful completion of the ritual allows the primary caster to transfer her soul into the phylactery, forever sealing it within the magical receptacle and turning her into a full-fledged lich.

There is a pathfinder ritual that could make a Lich at 9th level.
Edit: assuming everything goes well if not then you are doomed to a short and painful life.
 
I mean there is also the fact that it requires an epic level spell and the ritual is hideously expensive. There is no way that we are likely to find one outside of the Others, and I highly doubt we would ever put in the time and absurd resources to create one or even acquire a pet necromancer and get them to epic levels. Much less the research that would have to be done to stop the corrupting influences. Its an amusing pipe dream, but that is all.
We've actually encountered several Liches who weren't anywhere near epic levels (or Mythic, I guess), so not necessarily. And yes, I am fully aware it's probably never going to happen given all the inherent problems of negative energy, but it's nice to dream.
 
[X] Azel's plan but give no land to Uthero.

Consider this my formal complaint. We promised Westerosi Disney to Uthero and that's really something I want to see in the quest. I'm certain we can find someone competent enough to replace his would be responsabilities.

I suppose a compromise would be to import a shit load of westerosi peasents to his personal demesne and build westerosi dinsey in Essos... Still wouldnt be the same, but I'd let it go...
 
We've actually encountered several Liches who weren't anywhere near epic levels (or Mythic, I guess), so not necessarily. And yes, I am fully aware it's probably never going to happen given all the inherent problems of negative energy, but it's nice to dream.
It is nice to dream... And that is a fair point in this universe.
 
Consider this my formal complaint. We promised Westerosi Disney to Uthero and that's really something I want to see in the quest. I'm certain we can find someone competent enough to replace his would be responsabilities.

I suppose a compromise would be to import a shit load of westerosi peasents to his personal demesne and build westerosi dinsey in Essos... Still wouldnt be the same, but I'd let it go...
If it makes you feel better, he only asked for a Westeros-styled castle. He actually wanted land in the Disputed Lands to begin with.

That said, I've been wanting to pick out a bunch of knights for him, too. Can't be a proper Westerosi-style lord without household knights to your name. Imported peasants working the fields are a nice touch as well.
 
@Duesal, if you are so interested in getting a "pet lich", then this is what you'd have to push for :/

[] Research whether it is possible to substitute Negative energy by Positive or elemental energies when creating constructs, ideally finding a way to make things identical to undead constructs in all but lack of energies corrupting the world around them.
--[] Essentialy, make Undead powered by something that isn't NE (Progress - ??)
-[] Having the drove of lore (In memory of Death, The Bitter Cup, Undying Fire) and having met peaceful undead of Sarnor, the possibility now seems to exist to find a way of wielding the power of undeath for students of Scholarum, and as such to any citizens of your Empire naturally inclined to Negative Energy, without corruption seeping into either their minds or the world around them.
--[] Try to find a way of non-corruptive/"safe" wielding of Negative Energy, Necromancy, and otherwise corrupting crafts. (Progress - ??)
If making necromancers that wouldn't go all "Argh! Ffffuck living! Undeath to all, free! Rah!" is theoretically possible for us now, then grabbing a Lich is certainly somewhere down they tree.
 
@Duesal, if you are so interested in getting a "pet lich", then this is what you'd have to push for :/


If making necromancers that wouldn't go all "Argh! Ffffuck living! Undeath to all, free! Rah!" is theoretically possible for us now, then grabbing a Lich is certainly somewhere down they tree.
It wouldn't be the same. I wanted the original, not an expy version that substitutes negative energy.

Additionally, there are many more research projects that all take greater priority, so I'm not going to push for this any time soon if ever.
 
Weird question and very off topic but whatever happened to Aurane Waters? He still salty with us to not try and get rewards at the Festival or does he know he doesn't have a shot of winning?
 
It wouldn't be the same. I wanted the original, not an expy version that substitutes negative energy.
that's the relevant part, then:
--[] Try to find a way of non-corruptive/"safe" wielding of Negative Energy, Necromancy, and otherwise corrupting crafts. (Progress - ??)

DP said we, thanks to Wyla's unique experience, will be able, in theory at least, to achieve sensible and non-maddening use of Negative Energy by our casters.

Which is kinda a priority for me, if in a long term.

We are bound to eventually get those naturally predisposed to wielding NE in our Empire (if we don't already), and not teaching them is just wasted potential (and potential danger/wasted people resources).
 
so how many of the westeros knight do you guys think actually believe we don't know who they are? Cause dp did say most but he didnt say all knew we knew that they knew we knew who they are.
 
that's the relevant part, then:


DP said we, thanks to Wyla's unique experience, will be able, in theory at least, to achieve sensible and non-maddening use of Negative Energy by our casters.

Which is kinda a priority for me, if in a long term.

We are bound to eventually get those naturally predisposed to wielding NE in our Empire (if we don't already), and not teaching them is just wasted potential (and potential danger/wasted people resources).

This to me would be a priority, not only for its potential to add ridiculous power to some of our casters. But it also would be a tremendous aid come the long night. Not only that, but if we don't understand the effects we have an enormous possibility of getting fucked over if the others can/do corrupt the undead of Sarnor. That would make some enormous problems for us.

In universe, it would be a huge step towards understanding our enemies and also potentially help us rip their pawns from their grasp as they try to corrupt humans. Especially given that they have the potential to corrupt humans against their will like they did whats-her-face, the other touched one. We will need knowledge on that front desperately come the long night. Further, as their servants still have their souls locked in their bodies as they are corrupted (like the other-touched), we won't be able to resurrect anyone they corrupt/kill.
 
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I imagine Monford Velaryon is keeping a very close eye on him after his near-disastrous attempt to conquer Lys.

Rating this Hugs in lieu of a "hopeful" rating.

Also @Goldfish maybe instead of saying Maelor and Malarys are from a place that has banned slavery, which I would think is strange enough for Brass to raise some eyebrows, frame it as a business rivalry that they've come out on the wrong side of?
 
so how many of the westeros knight do you guys think actually believe we don't know who they are? Cause dp did say most but he didnt say all knew we knew that they knew we knew who they are.
... Didn't you already ask this?
Weird question and very off topic but whatever happened to Aurane Waters? He still salty with us to not try and get rewards at the Festival or does he know he doesn't have a shot of winning?
Monford sent him to Braavos in order to gather magical supplies and equipment for the Valeryon fleet.
 
... Didn't you already ask this?

Monford sent him to Braavos in order to gather magical supplies and equipment for the Valeryon fleet.
I asked dl he didnt answer. Which was after he told me that not all of the knights actually believe they are being sneaky. Meaning some actually believe they do. I was wondering which ones are actually dumb enough to believe that as dp pretty much stated some do.
 
I mean there is also the fact that it requires an epic level spell and the ritual is hideously expensive. There is no way that we are likely to find one outside of the Others, and I highly doubt we would ever put in the time and absurd resources to create one or even acquire a pet necromancer and get them to epic levels. Much less the research that would have to be done to stop the corrupting influences. Its an amusing pipe dream, but that is all.

We've actually encountered several Liches who weren't anywhere near epic levels (or Mythic, I guess), so not necessarily. And yes, I am fully aware it's probably never going to happen given all the inherent problems of negative energy, but it's nice to dream.
3.5 Liches technically just need Caster Level 11 and Craft Wonderous Item to make their Phylactery.
There is no description of possible ritual to attain Lichhood, but it's clearly possible for mages in that level-area.

No need for level 9 rituals.
 
3.5 Liches technically just need Caster Level 11 and Craft Wonderous Item to make their Phylactery.
There is no description of possible ritual to attain Lichhood, but it's clearly possible for mages in that level-area.

No need for level 9 rituals.

Yup, it seems the one I was looking at was an alternate version that had some benefits over the standard one in exchange for the absurd increases in cost and spell level.

I will happily admit that I have fairly limited knowledge of D&D beyond my somewhat niche and home-brewey interests. The lack of any groups to play with in my area has stymied my interest and I have never quite felt comfortable with trying to join a game online. So feel free to correct me where I am obviously wrong about things.
 
Yup, it seems the one I was looking at was an alternate version that had some benefits over the standard one in exchange for the absurd increases in cost and spell level.

I will happily admit that I have fairly limited knowledge of D&D beyond my somewhat niche and home-brewey interests. The lack of any groups to play with in my area has stymied my interest and I have never quite felt comfortable with trying to join a game online. So feel free to correct me where I am obviously wrong about things.

You know, sharing your opinions like this reminds me of @egoo, when he started, all polite and stuff...
And then came the screeching, the paranoia, the obsession with books, and finally the tentacles....

Watch out for the Illithid spawn :V

@DragonParadox, how about the Titles, what does Aedil:

to the palace of the Aedil where the last of the city's battle mages had gathered

To tell the truth I think we should visit the Aedil's palace before the temple, assuming it still stands.

mean? Mayor?
 
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