You know, the problem of Evil or the problem of the omnipotence of God have some pretty easy solutions.
Just, you know, convert to something else where this isn't an issue.
> Heresy
> There's probably some eastern spiritual thingy and/or various old polytheistic systems where these aren't an issue
> If you're into religion for the community and/or to be a showoff about it, please note that there's a religion that worships at Fire Temples! Isn't your inner 7 year-old happy about that?
> Atheism

But in the case of the Dresden Files, I always assumed that Butches just wanted to avoid the issue for as long as possible. Hence why having Viserys turn up and try to study it is... awkward, from an author's perspective.

Solutions dicier when you've got an up-jumped elemental that probably doesn't have limitations that can observed by anything but another being who can see outside the scope of universal physics or metaphysics.

Edit:

But you know... this conversation is actually starting to make me nervous.

Not because it's not interesting or that I think anyone is pursuing it outside of the context of DF, but because of how twitchy people with religion get about it.

Which, to be fair, having people take shots at a stand-in for your faith and not defending it, or having the choice between taking actions against it even if they other side were "just having civil discussion" about it aren't really choices, at least on the internet. :V

So I'mma bow out of this whole last few pages of DF talk.
 
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...and I expect gifts of blankets. :evil:

You'll get what you'll get and you'll like it :V

Solutions dicier when you've got an up-jumped elemental that probably doesn't have limitations that can observed by anything but another being who can see outside the scope of universal physics or metaphysics.

I...have basically no idea what you're talking about here. I mean, that's not unusual, but I'd actually like some clarity this time :p
 
@Snowfire, before you rate me insightful please be aware that I was editing my post at the same time.
I know it's rude, sorry.

And Crake, I didn't understand your post either.
 
You'll get what you'll get and you'll like it :V



I...have basically no idea what you're talking about here. I mean, that's not unusual, but I'd actually like some clarity this time :p

Problem of Evil. Ignore that WG is a thing? Doesn't work. Convert to another faith? Probably not going to change a lot of people's minds by pointing out your alternative religion doesn't ignore your issues, because being concerned with your issues isn't the point!

Etc. Context was that in DF, WG, is basically the real deal. If they're largely responsible for the system and maintaining it, then you're subject to it no matter what you do.
 
Part MMDCLXIII: King's Pledge
King's Pledge

Twenty-First Day of the Eighth Month 293 AC

Once the drinking horns and harps are put away and most of the Thenns seek their beds, you and your companions follow Styr and those closest to him into a more private corner of the hall to speak not of the past but the future. While most of the Magnar's advisers are warriors with grey in their beards, there is also Velwen, a healer whose tresses still fall pale gold though her face is lined with the worries of a troubled life, and Ulelda, a spearwife born among the boat-building tribes along the Milkwater and probably the closest thing one could find to a trader among the insular Thenns. Also along is Braga, though from the banter that comes along with the invitation you get the impression that the closed-mouthed hunter is not often brought to council, not from any lack of standing, but because he prefers the wild lands to the deliberations of his fellows.

No sooner does the door close that all eyes around the table turn to you, seeking answers no doubt, but you would rather begin with a question: "When Winter comes and Their servants awaken, not one by one in dark caves but abroad and loose to march upon the Wall under frozen skies, what will the Thenns do?"

A darkness falls upon the room at the words spoken so openly, but none flinch from them, least of all Styr: "All other things being as they are now, I'd send most of the clan south to safety while those of us skilled at fighting and land-wise try to guard something of the land we've worked and bled for for so long. If nothing else, we'll die for it. Let no man or other dark thing laugh and say the Thenns all turned tail and ran when Night came again."

"Certainly a glorious end for a warrior, but an end nonetheless. For what, though?" You shake your head sadly at the waste it would all be. "There will be no skalds left to record your deeds, and would the snow not cover their blood spilled all the same?"

Though none answer the question, neither is there any give in the stare of the Magnar. They would know, the Enemy would know, and for six-thousand years the Thenns have skirmished in this ancient war. In this hidden vale, Dawn had never come in full, and its people have thus taken pride in living in the twilight.

Still, convince them you must, not only for their sake but the sake of all those who might benefit from the lore they have preserved: and so with craft and cunning as much as earnest purpose you continue: "I have given much thought to the war to come, and holding Thenn against the full might of the enemy..." you trail off at the enormity of the task, ultimately the folly of it. "I know the desire to fight for your home all too well, but a home is more than stones, dirt, houses, and fields. The Thenns should stay together, even if that means leaving this valley behind, for the valley will still be there to be reclaimed after the Long Night as long as there are Thenns to do so."

It is Velwen, the healer and you suspect rune-carver, who speaks, her voice grim. "Many years ago the Horned Lord who would be King-Beyond-the-Wall came to Thenn and asked for all our warriors and all our swords to make war in the South. He promised us great riches, wide lands once the war was won."

Mors grumbles at the reminder that the Thenns marched against the Wall and the North, but he does not interrupt, obviously curious to hear the tale's end.

"Now that was a time when the Children of the Forest still dwelt together in clans of their own and the carved faces of the Heart Trees spoke for all to hear, so the Magnar in those days sought them out, asking what would become of our lands if we all marched with his host." She pauses a moment to take a sip of mead and steady the slight tremble in her voice. "It was foretold that should the Thenns ever leave the vale in full then the Grinding Ice will come down from the heights and scour the land bare of all the works of our hands, all the signs of our defiance." The last word is flung out like a dagger in the dark, for any unkindly power that would care to listen.

"There is magic to make bare rock into fertile lands again just as there is to shatter mountains," Dany interjects softly. "I know the works of your hands is precious to you, but it is those hands, those minds, the songs you sing your children to sleep, and the runes you yet know the meanings of that are the true treasures of Thenn."

In the silence that follows none dare to speak, for newborn hope you know to be a fragile thing. So again you speak, making your mind known and your offer clear: "The reason I'm so reluctant to take you up on your words is that I know it would be a lie. I can't be King-Beyond-the-Wall, not while the Enemy is drawing ever closer. The Deadlands will bear their name in earnest soon enough, so if you wish for my aid and counsel, then I can only give you this. Come to the South. If you wish to settle on fertile lands, no blood of man will you have to spill for it. For those who desire glorious battle I offer them the finest arms and armor to bear alongside the thousands of warriors under my banner. The Thenns began with a hopeless battle, and it would be a sad day when the last realm of the Age of Heroes would perish in another. And besides, I could not think of better allies for the coming war than you who have fought it for millennia. Spreading your knowledge and skills among my forces would be a tremendous boon."

"Your words are sweet as your deeds are mighty, but I cannot entrust the whole of my people to do this on the workings of a single day however worthy of song and tale," the Magnar speaks at last. No more than you had expected.

"Nor do I ask that of you," you reply. "If you are willing, I would take a few of your people to my realm so that they may see it for themselves and know exactly what I offer."

"I will go," Velwen says at once, eyeing Styr with challenge. "To teach something of runelore, for whatever the Magnar chooses we owe it to the folk of the South to arm them with the weapons we have kept against great need."

"And I," Goram speaks up, much to Mors' delight, though he does his best to hide his grin behind a cup. "I aim to met my wife's kin and hopefully even live through it." Laughter rings out around the table to what would have not so long ago have been words spoken in earnest, for such is the nature of men to gather together around the fire when the darkness draws near.

"If you will have three I would come, too," Braga adds. "What with the Nightrunners gone there will be fewer things worth shooting in the mountains for a while at least."

"You could also try out your new axe some more," you say with a smile. "You have earned it in full for standing against the wight in the mountains. Not many men would have stood there and fought with his gaze on them. The same to you, Mors."

Lost 2 Valyrian Steel Axes

"Not many men, but at least one little girl, eh?" the older warrior laughs good-naturally, motioning to Dany. "You don't make it any easier for a man to be believed when telling tales in his cups, Highness."

"If anyone should doubt you, you can always call me over to give them a talking-to," your sister answers primly.

"Speaking of tales..." Mors sounds a touch uncomfortable. "Could you take me by Last Hearth before we go back down south? There's a lot I need to tell my nephew the Greatjon about where the real peril lies, and... where his banners should be hanging." The words almost see to pain him, but it is clear Mors had gained more than his daughter back and a new-found appreciation for 'wildlings' out of this journey.

What do you reply?

[] Agree
-[] Write in how you greet the Greatjon

[] Refuse
-[] Write in reasoning and what you will do next


OOC: Don't worry, I have not forgotten about the brazier, but that did not fit until just as you are leaving the hold.
 
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We made progress with the Manderlys, but actually subverting the Umbers? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

@DragonParadox, if we had Velwen actively aiding Lya in studying runecrafting, would the Progress 15 action for studying the Land-Wards in Thennhold be any less? Also, how much can she teach to Lya?
 
We made progress with the Manderlys, but actually subverting the Umbers? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

@DragonParadox, if we had Velwen actively aiding Lya in studying runecrafting, would the Progress 15 action for studying the Land-Wards in Thennhold be any less? Also, how much can she teach to Lya?

I'd expect more dice to be thrown at it rather than a reduction in Progress requirement.
 
She has Runecrafting I, most of what she does is by rote and ritual.
Runecrafting I actually seems super useful, then, if what she has is enough to maintain Land-Wards and spell wells to never freeze even in the middle of Winter.

We already have Runecrafting III here:
And another, Lya's Runecrafting

Runecrafting III

An enchanter possessing this feat can shape magic in accordance to the ancient traditions of the First Men, allowing them to use any one of the following abilities.

Legend-wrought: May reduce the cost of any enchantment process (or group of such processes) so long as they align with the zeitgeist associated with the base object (example: a famed explorer's ship taking to the sky, a mighty fortress gaining walls impossible to scale, etc). The reduction in cost depends on the scale of the legend ranging from 10%-50%. This bonus stacks with and is added after any other cost-reducing feats.

Elder Roots: May at the cost of doubling the price of an enchantment or group of enchantments (inducing but not limited to wards, traps, and lineage blessings) make the magic far more resilient, echoing back upon the world from the Dreamlands. This means that any dispel checks made against it are rolled twice, choosing the lowest result. The spell may endure for millennia of waning magic and has a 20% chance to continue to function even in an anti-magic effect. (May be improved with use and study)

First Tongue: Offers a significant boost to researching new magical effects at the cost of longer research times.
Would you mind laying out what Runecrafting I and Runecrafting II are?
 
@Azel @Goldfish please don't forget to collect the corpses of the children and the Frost Worm. The children can be laid to rest hopefully, and the Frost Worms have 14 HD.
I'm not sure why this is quoted but I wanted to make Fungal Purple worms so I'm glad we have Frost Worms.
Magnar's
could find to a trader along the insular Thenns.
Among
send most of the clan south so safety while
To
The reason I'm so reluctant to take your up on your words is that I know it would be a lie
You
Also read a little awkwardly in general to me, I get why you didn't say offer though. Pledge maybe? Though "take you up on" still feels lacking.
Something along the lines of meeting their pledge.

There are so many things that I recall (or don't, rather) DP saying "you will need to research" I wish I made more extensive use of @egoo's services.
 
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