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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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Goldfish said:
Bad news, @Deliste, I just got word from DP that the reagents (the ashes of a Shapeshifting Humanoid) for Umbral Spies is too exotic to be an off-the-shelf item even in the Opaline Vault or Armun Kelisk. We're going to have to dedicate an action from someone to finding the ashes if we want to craft Umbral Spies.
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That means we need to get a live sample of humanoid shape-shifter flesh and then grow more in fungal pods.

How much crafting budget does that free up?
 
Deliste said:
Bloom's tower.
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I don't think you mentioned Umbral Spies until some time after that mission. I put them in the crafting schedule for this past month and I thought that was fairly soon after you brought them to our attention. My memory isn't the most reliable source of information, though.
Azel said:
That means we need to get a live sample of humanoid shape-shifter flesh and then grow more in fungal pods.

How much crafting budget does that free up?
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Enough that I was able to add 32 more Lesser False Ravens, 12 more Greater False Ravens, and 12 additional Elemental Wyrmlings (3 full sets).

EDIT: And ten more Handy Haversacks.
 
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Goldfish said:
I don't think you mentioned Umbral Spies until some time after that mission. I put them in the crafting schedule for this past month and I thought that was fairly soon after you brought them to our attention. My memory isn't the most reliable source of information, though.

Enough that I was able to add 32 more Lesser False Ravens, 12 more Greater False Ravens, and 12 additional Elemental Wyrmlings (3 full sets).
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I mentioned them to DP before then I'm sure, I didn't put them in the crafting plan, and he probably didn't look too closely until they were in it but they were a known entity before that time.
Hence the frustration.
 
Deliste said:
I mentioned them to DP before then I'm sure, I didn't put them in the crafting plan, and he probably didn't look too closely until they were in it but they were a known entity before that time.
Hence the frustration.
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Well, now they're on the radar. We've got plenty of people available, so we should be able to set one of them to scouring the extraplanar markets, or outright placing an order, for the necessary ashes. Umbral Spies are useful enough that it would be worth the investment.

Or we can start hunting Were-creatures here on Planetos. @Duesal Weren't Were-Tigers discovered somewhere recently? Was it in the Summer Isles?
 
Goldfish said:
Well, now they're on the radar. We've got plenty of people available, so we should be able to set one of them to scouring the extraplanar markets, or outright placing an order, for the necessary ashes. Umbral Spies are useful enough that it would be worth the investment.

Or we can start hunting Were-creatures here on Planetos. @Duesal Weren't Were-Tigers discovered somewhere recently? Was it in the Summer Isles?
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Yes, in the Summer Isles.

Though I'm also keen on taking over Draconys this turn and given it's proximity to Valyria, we might luck out and find some were-mutants there.

Either way, we need the Fungal Pods before we can get a steady supply.
 
You'll know that we can just create those ashes, right?
Polymorph specifically says that "The subject's creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form."
So we could always polymorph someone into a shapechanger, brag a body part for study and mass-production, and then turn it back to its own form.

Otherwise there are were-people in some island down south, right? And that werewolf spirit in the North of course.
 
[X] Azel

Speaking of were's, I wonder if that wildling girl was successful in killing the werebear spirit. Also, who's omake were the Mormonts? Shouldn't they have arrived in Tyrosh by now?
 
Deliste said:
Hence it being under "cannot".

I think what people fail to realise is that when your "hands are tied" by your inherent nature that is not an exception, you are not acting despite X or Y.

It is what you are, forever, there's no point even saying "but his hands are tied".

When people say that, they are indicating that it is not in that person's nature or is not their normal course of behaviour, it is abnormal and a result of external pressure though they would act otherwise if they could, have in the past and/or would in the future.

If you're forced to be an asshole and you can't ever not be, you're an asshole as much as any other.
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But fact is that you are interpreting it in the worst way, namely as if Bahamut is bound to do evil, instead of bound with limitations to what good he can do.

It's like the Dany bargaining with Tiamat debacle, his nature didn't allow him to resurrect us unless she declined Tiamat, but it was his choice, whether he would have resurrected us if Dany had declined Tiamat, there are rules and limitations upon what he can do, and there are certain things he has to do, but that don't mean that he has no free will, it just mean he has limited free will, there are still choices he makes himself, and we should try mainly to judge him by those, as opposed to judging him by what he's forbidden to do.

If it's indeed him in Slaver's Bay, then his nature probably forbid him taking more overt actions, but it don't require him to do what little he can, he could decide that it's not deserving of his help, but he choose not to do that.

In the same way there's a lot of things Yss can't do, and a lot of things he has to do, but those aren't what we judge our relationship with him on, we judge it on the merits, of those things he can decide whether to do or not.

In this case, Bahamut is probably limited, by strict rules of how much interference, a god without worshippers or sacrifices may do, he hasn't managed to find a suitable prophet to spread his words, so the extent of what he may do is low, he's however choosing to do what little he can, instead of declaring that until he has worshippers there it's not his problem.
 
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Deliste said:
If you're forced to be an asshole and you can't ever not be, you're an asshole as much as any other.
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I hate to get involved in Bahamut debates, but I kinda have to here: in this kind of situation, he'll always be an asshole. However he could be an excellent ally in other contexts.
Kinda like Amrelath: a threat who'll always threaten to screw us over and destroy our Shadow Tower while he's bound in it, but who can be a fantastic meatshield in Valyria when promised a share of the loot.

Anyway, I'm against allying with Bahamut for IC reasons: Viserys is pissed, and this time it's personal. This may not be the optima tactical decision, but everyone needs some mistakes anyway!
 
Goldfish said:
Freedom of Movement is an easier effect to come by than Mind Blank. I don't think we need to spend 8,000 IM per Companion to equip everyone with FoM items.

If anyone has access to the Heart of Water spell, they can cancel it to gain Freedom of Movement for 1 round/caster level. That's Viserys, Lya, and Waymar at the moment, though Viserys is already covered. And of course Richard has his new ring.

Even better, however, is the Periapt of the Sullen Sea. It's part of an item set that goes along with the Boots of the Wide Earth, costs just 600 IM, and allows the wearer to convert 4th level spell slots into Freedom of Movement spells. Lya already has it and I'm planning for Tyene and Vee to have it as well. All three of them have plenty of 4th level spells slots to go around, and at their caster levels, each use of the spell would last for 2+ hours.

I'm all for spending money to improve our folks' gear, but it's not always the best solution.
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Even so, simply having the effect on an item seems simpler to me. I'd at least like to see if we can get a few more made. It's hardly as if we can't afford it at this point.

Edit: Especially since Freedom of Movement not only lets you escape all grapples, but let's you move normally underwater.
Goldfish said:
Enough that I was able to add 32 more Lesser False Ravens, 12 more Greater False Ravens, and 12 additional Elemental Wyrmlings (3 full sets).

EDIT: And ten more Handy Haversacks.
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I'm pleased with more Haversacks and more Wyrmlings.
 
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TalonofAnathrax said:
You'll know that we can just create those ashes, right?
Polymorph specifically says that "The subject's creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form."
So we could always polymorph someone into a shapechanger, brag a body part for study and mass-production, and then turn it back to its own form.

Otherwise there are were-people in some island down south, right? And that werewolf spirit in the North of course.
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Hey we actually did kill the Werebear didn't we? Or was it sacrificed? Were there bones left over?

tarrangar said:
But fact is that you are interpreting it in the worst way, namely as if Bahamut is bound to do evil, instead of bound with limitations to what good he can do.

It's like the Dany bargaining with Tiamat debacle, his nature didn't allow him to resurrect us unless she declined Tiamat, but it was his choice, whether he would have resurrected us if Dany had declined Tiamat, there are rules and limitations upon what he can do, and there are certain things he has to do, but that don't mean that he has no free will, it just mean he has limited free will, there are still choices he makes himself, and we should try mainly to judge him by those, as opposed to judging him by what he's forbidden to do.

If it's indeed him in Slaver's Bay, then his nature probably forbid him taking more overt actions, but it don't require him to do what little he can, he could decide that it's not deserving of his help, but he choose not to do that.

In the same way there's a lot of things Yss can't do, and a lot of things he has to do, but those aren't what we judge our relationship with him on, we judge it on the merits, of those things he can decide whether to do or not.

In this case, Bahamut is probably limited, by strict rules of how much interference, a god without worshippers or sacrifices may do, he hasn't managed to find a suitable prophet to spread his words, so the extent of what he may do is low, he's however choosing to do what little he can, instead of declaring that until he has worshippers there it's not his problem.
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Or, and hear me out here because it's a wild one, we judge him on his actions, lack thereof and impacts as with every other being in the universe, and indeed for the most part even objects or transitive states and reactions like Fire or Cold.

Sometimes Fire is good, sometimes it's bad, cold too, Yss also and we ensure that we structure our relationship in a way that is positive. Yss is receptive to this type of relationship, Yss doesn't just help people, nor does he claim moral authority but he can be manoeuvred to help people, he can make a Kingdom profitable and when that Kingdom is ours it's a very helpful thing indeed to people far and wide.

Bahamut has not yet appeared to be in a similar situation, his restrictions less clear and far less manageable than Yss', this is a poor comparison but it is not your fault, we intentionally do not have anyone like Bahamut in our Divine Stable so you had no opportunity for an apt comparison from the beginning.
 
Deliste said:
Huh, I don't remember leaving amicably. Will have to re-read.
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We didn't quite part in friendly terms. It was still an asshole that decided eating people was a fantastic plan, something the wildling we were with was super pissed at. She swore to kill him at some point. I wouldn't be surprised if she's dead for trying now.
 
Duesal said:
Even so, simply having the effect on an item seems simpler to me. I'd at least like to see if we can get a few more made. It's hardly as if we can't afford it at this point.

Edit: Especially since Freedom of Movement not only lets you escape all grapples, but let's you move normally underwater.

I'm pleased with more Haversacks and more Wyrmlings.
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It's not the price thats an issue, but the growing scarcity of item slots. I'm already making as much stuff slotless as I can manage. I can make room for some FoM items, but then what? We're just about maxed out on item slot exploits.
 
Duesal said:
What about getting the effect on existing items?
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Then it costs 8,000 IM plus half of whatever effect in the item is cheapest, and the item isn't available for use for a long time.

I've been stacking multiple effects on items for a while now.

Like I said, it's not so much that we can't put the FoM items somewhere, but it's going to be pushing us that much closer to the limit and it won't be long before I can't shoehorn anything else in. FoM isn't the effect I want to fill in the available item space when it's so easy to place the spell on someone for a good duration.
 
Goldfish said:
Then it costs 8,000 IM plus half of whatever effect in the item is cheapest, and the item isn't available for use for a long time.

I've been stacking multiple effects on items for a while now.

Like I said, it's not so much that we can't put the FoM items somewhere, but it's going to be pushing us that much closer to the limit and it won't be long before I can't shoehorn anything else in. FoM isn't the effect I want to fill in the available item space when it's so easy to place the spell on someone for a good duration.
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Unfortunate, but fair enough. I was mainly hoping to further enchant the various PfE items.
 
Goldfish said:
It's not the price thats an issue, but the growing scarcity of item slots. I'm already making as much stuff slotless as I can manage. I can make room for some FoM items, but then what? We're just about maxed out on item slot exploits.
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Hear me out.

Slotless Socks of Freedom of Movement.

Gets them onto the person in a unobtrusive way, starts us on the journey of magic knitwear, and let's us have fancy socks.

We'll never have to worry about soaked feet again!
 
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