dpara
slightly confused ascendant
The dragon king is but a long con by Corly Waters! Wake up sheeple!
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
-
- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
lockingbane
If you're crazy and you know it clap your hands!
- Location
- Waxahachie tx
Yeah it is kind of creepy but since we are in complete control of our draconic instincts even more so than 99% of all dragons we would be all but unchanged from such a ritual.
CE?
Whatever, it only changes their instincts.... Which is admittedly very big for dragons since their instincts are a very big defining part of their identities but for us... Not so much.
We become a metallic dragon and we shouldn't really be that effected beyond changed instincts from our dragon side.
- Location
- florida
I would recommend turning back from this conversation, your treading into unstable ground my friend.
lockingbane
If you're crazy and you know it clap your hands!
- Location
- Waxahachie tx
could you clarify?
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
It reads as if you are implying we should change Viserys' nature, based on the fact that metalic dragons are somehow percieved as "better" than chromatic.
Such notion surfaced before, and was faced with much arguing against.
Not in the least because back then it was presented as an absolute truth, but still.
*looks very pointedly at certain someones*
Alignment debates are heated around these parts.
Last edited:
dpara
slightly confused ascendant
You have not yet found yourself in the fires of tribulation that is an alignment debate around here?
- Location
- florida
Tackling alignment bias is tricky at the best of times.
To say nothing of the sheer danger of such a plan.
To give more credence to your idea however.
I Asked DP about the divine aid from Bahamut a looooong time ago, and he said our heritage would require us to be on the extreme end of good before he was willing to touch us.
This was later compounded by Danny becoming a cleric of Tiamat. Something which... Bahamut couldn't really have prevented? I think?
But DP phrased in such a way that made it sound like he could have done so easily.
And since there... Along with the whole Gold dragon Aemon meme from... Forever ago.
The thread has built up a large distaste for all things shiny and draconic.
It got edged out a little bit when we met a cleric of Bahamut who was honestly pretty chill.
However there is still a lot of anger there.
On top of people just not caring and wanting focus on other things.
lockingbane
If you're crazy and you know it clap your hands!
- Location
- Waxahachie tx
No, it changes his instincts.
For most dragons their personalities are influenced by their instincts to a frankly insane degree. Viserys, however, has control over his draconic instincts to an utterly insane degree for a dragon. He is unlikely to change very much due to his personality not being influenced to such a heavy degree by draconic instincts.
Due to his impeccable control his alignment is unlikely to change. Now if he were to act more on his instincts rather than logic it might change, but he doesn't so it is very unlikely it will change.
As for him not wanting to touch us, he would do it, if only to deny Tiamat the chance of ever effecting our descendants through the fact we are a chromatic.
It would be more out of a sense of "I will change you so she can't have you" than him actually liking or caring for us.
Last edited:
- Location
- florida
I know the thread probably wont agree with me, but I have always held that we act more like a Metallic dragon gone neutral than a chromatic gone neutral.
Viserys draconic habits are bent almost entirely towards protecting his "possessions" namely. The entire planet, and everyone on it.
Combined with his social welfare, economic, and military policy...
To me he paints the "Metallic dragon disillusioned with goodness" picutre, rather than "Red dragon working towards enlightened self interest" picture.
Which would probably just make Bahamut hate us even more.
Edit: This is of course, ignoring that Viserys views himself as a dragon and a human.
Last edited:
lockingbane
If you're crazy and you know it clap your hands!
- Location
- Waxahachie tx
Pretty much.
Nah, he would hate that we are not his. We would be the second most desirable type of dragon to change, though he would do so grudgingly (since, while ideal to become a metallic, he will have a harder time bargaining for some kind of payment.)
The first being a desperate chromatic willing to do whatever is necessary to change.
- Location
- florida
I've spent the past hour trying to think of a way to tell you "you can't want good magic because the thread said so" and I realize now that just because I got all the hope beat out of me it does not mean I should do the same to you.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover | Page 6977
Here's where we met the cleric.
Good luck man. I'll be rooting for you.
Last edited:
dpara
slightly confused ascendant
This has been a long flash point for us, the degree to which Alignment interacts with free will is one.
To give a bit more history, you have faction A that considers good/evil more of a political distinction with rational/free will in a sense, and faction B that considers Good/Evil as "real concepts"/fundamental forces and more limited rational/free will.
So faction A thinks this whole Good/Evil is really stupid since "the difference between enlightened self interest/playing the long game and good is indistinguishable" while faction B thinks evil being Evil is fundamental to the setting.
e.g. the last firestorm over this with the Erinyes being evil or Evil.
See above, but it'd be another how much free will do the gods/your alignment chassis grant you discussion.
Which will end in one faction saying we're not going to be sucking Good cock and the other saying that they are underestimating evil cock and not agreeing on anything, except lot of cock sucking going on.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I thought our out-of-character problem with Bahamut was that he'd forestalled the Tiamat deal if Dany had chosen her purity over the life of her brother (long-term consequences be damned). And the perception that Bahamut invented the stick LAWFUL good paladins have a problem with.
In character, his opinion might be influenced by the slightly biased info he gets in the dragon dreams.
In character, his opinion might be influenced by the slightly biased info he gets in the dragon dreams.
Last edited:
lockingbane
If you're crazy and you know it clap your hands!
- Location
- Waxahachie tx
I remember.
The main issue with us changing is that there are a few requirements.
1. We need a sacred space blessed by him
2. We will need a scale, some blood, and a bit of claw willingly given by a metallic dragon
3. We will need to discuss terms with him directly be it through just his voice or through an avatar and reach a conclusion BOTH of us accept.
Obviously 2 and 3 are big issues. Especially since we are kind of the type of being he would see us and see a Metallic's mentality in the scaled flesh of tiamat's spawn. This would piss him off and if given a deal in his favor (or at least appear to be, but good luck getting that by him) then he would be (grudgingly) willing to make our body match our mentality.
- Location
- Germany
[generic argument against alignment debates]
[acerbic comment]
[complains about Good-splaining Viserys]
[acerbic comment that this argument and everyone perpetuating it should be buried in a shallow ditch]
[general salt]
Please fill in this pregenerated post as appropriate.
[acerbic comment]
[complains about Good-splaining Viserys]
[acerbic comment that this argument and everyone perpetuating it should be buried in a shallow ditch]
[general salt]
Please fill in this pregenerated post as appropriate.
- Location
- florida
You'll have more luck starting smaller. See if you can convince people to track down that cleric and see how his quest is going. Also be up for rustlig tiamats jimmies.
- Location
- florida
Well usually you prove your willing to be good, and then you grow six wings, eighteen eye balls and nipple lazers.
egoo
Totally Not Creating Problems Where None Existed
- Location
- Russia
I really don't get the want to change Viserys right now :/
Or ever, really.
Why, why would we want to change his draconic instincts, if he already has full control over them?!
This feels very much like Good > Evil, just overlaid with Metallic/Chromatic distinction argument this time.
Viserys is already experienced enough with magic so that Evil descriptor spells don't change his alignment.
Why in the fuck should we change his entire being now?!
And yes, entire being.
He is as much a dragon as he is human.
His unique dual nature is something DP pointedly underlines every time he can.
Bah!
*joins Azel in Longue of Lost Common Sense*
Hey, is there some lime around here? Salt is already aplenty, soo...
Or ever, really.
Why, why would we want to change his draconic instincts, if he already has full control over them?!
This feels very much like Good > Evil, just overlaid with Metallic/Chromatic distinction argument this time.
Viserys is already experienced enough with magic so that Evil descriptor spells don't change his alignment.
Why in the fuck should we change his entire being now?!
And yes, entire being.
He is as much a dragon as he is human.
His unique dual nature is something DP pointedly underlines every time he can.
Bah!
*joins Azel in Longue of Lost Common Sense*
Hey, is there some lime around here? Salt is already aplenty, soo...
Last edited:
- Location
- Germany
Second drawer left of the freezer. And could you get me a new bottle of beer while you are back there?
- Location
- florida
I don't really care that much either way.
At our level of development it would still be Viserys, just ice cream flavored and chrome colored.
Edit:
Actually I do think being able to flip our kit at will from fire elementalism to ice elementalism would be awesome, but that's more of a wish thing
Rather than a prolonged and irreversible ritual transformation.
Hmmm.
Black hole dragon Viserys? Solar dragon Viserys?
Dare I suggest amethyst dragon Viserys?
Last edited:
- Location
- Germany
Okay, serious question. If Viserys is so Good and conquered his Evil instincts, why the need to change him in the first place?
This whole argument is farcical.
- Location
- florida
Yes?
Changing into another kind of dragon is unlikely to effect his personality or alignment at all.
I was... Look go back and read the edits I made. It should are my stance clearer.
- Location
- Germany
Eventual kids?
I am in favor of never having any beyond the one construct for Syrax, but other seem to want some.