Examples of Viserys thinking Democracy lacks efficiency, courage and/or competence: Tritons, Myrish Glassworks leadership, local representatives in his own Empire, families in He'Nekar...
Yeah but that just show that he don't think it's the best system, it's not like he don't have as much or more problems with bad sovereign leaders, so while he don't think it's the best system, he don't really think it's worse than other common systems, he just think the Feudalism system is easier to improve, as there you only need 1 superc ompetent person to improve it.
Look, Viserys thinks that feudalism is a perfect system as long as lords do their job and aren't blinded by superstition/prejudice/incompetence.
Of course we IRL tend to think that "enlightened despot" regimes never actually work because where could we find a perfect despot?
Viserys looks in a mirror.
Yeah Viserys think that the best system is a supremely competent and benevolent dictator, but he also knows that those are very rare, so obviously a super competent dictator is his ideal, but it's not like he likes the lack of checks there's on feudalism, any more than he like democracy, democracy is inefficient, and feudalism without strict competence checks, get you people like Baelor the Blessed in charge, he don't like either of those, so I would say Viserys has more a general dislike of most forms of ruling, that don't involve strict rules about minimum competence, than he have specific dislike for democracy.

So I think that it's more that Viserys see just about all government systems as fatally flawed, but Feudalism is the one he sees as easiest to fix, and the one he favor on account of upbringing bias, but that's just it, he favor feudalism he don't disfavor democracy, democracy is not seen by him as any worse than the other non-feudalism governments.
 
We are rarely paralyzed by a failure to get clear results on votes.
Due to our smaller numbers changing votes is easy if there is a tie or something close to it.

Also no chance of corruption in the classical sense due to our medium. You can't really bribe people here.

We are, to the best of my knowledge, not really engaging in backroom-arrangements. If they wanted to some of the more popular votecrafters could easily make some arrangement, but I think they don't.

Some more?
We did occasionally have voting behavior guided by prior agreements, though all of those were haggled out in plain view, so you can't really count them as backroom-deals.
 
We are rarely paralyzed by a failure to get clear results on votes.
Due to our smaller numbers changing votes is easy if there is a tie or something close to it.

Also no chance of corruption in the classical sense due to our medium. You can't really bribe people here.

We are, to the best of my knowledge, not really engaging in backroom-arrangements. If they wanted to some of the more popular votecrafters could easily make some arrangement, but I think they don't.

Some more?
Snowfire can bribe people here, he got at least my vote by promising a quicker Horde thief update.:D
 
I'm also fairly sure most of us despise going back on our word or doing a 180 on a viewpoint.

...I'm pretty sure we practice political behaviors we would like to see done more in RL, though motivated by petty spite rather than idealism more often than not.
 
No, no, no, god no.

It's being retained as leverage against the Reach Court.

Until we know where we stand with them, it stays inside of a box, inside of a smaller box, inside of our Major Artifact pocket dimension outer-wear made from the skin of an Arch-Duke of Hell.

Don't we still have the Anti-God Box?
 
Yeah Viserys think that the best system is a supremely competent and benevolent dictator, but he also knows that those are very rare, so obviously a super competent dictator is his ideal, but it's not like he likes the lack of checks there's on feudalism, any more than he like democracy, democracy is inefficient, and feudalism without strict competence checks, get you people like Baelor the Blessed in charge, he don't like either of those, so I would say Viserys has more a general dislike of most forms of ruling, that don't involve strict rules about minimum competence, than he have specific dislike for democracy.

So I think that it's more that Viserys see just about all government systems as fatally flawed, but Feudalism is the one he sees as easiest to fix, and the one he favor on account of upbringing bias, but that's just it, he favor feudalism he don't disfavor democracy, democracy is not seen by him as any worse than the other non-feudalism governments.

Viserys has never encountered a true democracy, but if he did his main objection would not be inefficiency so much as decision-making by people without the expertise to make the decisions, government by popularity contest when popularity does not guarantee competence . His IC argument against democracy would start with something like "Behold Aedon of Lys, much loved by many of his fellow citizens"
 
Part MMDX: The Man in Lantern's Light
The Man in Lantern's Light

Twelfth Day of the Seventh Month 293 AC

If nothing else you must grant the warrior that he is swift and decisive in the face of unexpected threats. No sooner had you allowed your glamour to fall away that he is ready to fight, though not with the sword at his side. Something glinting silver falls from his sleeve... a dagger... no, a dart, and you would wager a poisoned one, too. A clever way to even the odds against otherworldly beings usually so much stronger than men for all it will not avail him against you.

"I mean no harm," you present your palms to show that you are unarmed, though the gesture seems to mean little to the man before you, and little wonder if he has fought sorcerers before. Still, he does not attack and so you continue: "I believe there is much we must speak of, many lies and plots to bring to the light of day."

"Pretty words for someone holding a man's mind in thrall," the Lantern Bearer scoffs. "I can see it in the poor bastard's eyes."

"Indeed he is so bound for a heinous crime against his oaths and even guest right itself," you reply bluntly, guessing that this is more likely to win you favor than any cunning deflection. "You have before you one who tried to poison his lawful lord in a slow and torturous manner. I know of no place in this wide world where a healer turned poisoner is not among the most despised of men. Yet he has been granted a reprieve and a chance to win back his honor in the Night's Watch."

"Ain't that a fine thing now... and what's that wrapped around his neck so? A right and lawful beasty, is it?"

How had he...? The answer comes to you in a flash, remembering that Garin can see the unseen briefly not through sorcery but sheer sharpness of eye. Though given your friend's advantages that says quite a lot about the skills of the warrior.

"I am not a 'beasty'," Dany replies, shrugging off her own glamour. "Daenerys Targaryen, I would say at your service, but I would not wish to say the words to someone who I might soon have to fight in deadly earnest.

"A name to call you by would be appreciated," you add, matching your sister's dry tone. "If of course you intend to take up the offer to have a civilized conversation over charging into fruitless battle." Moving to one of the large stones that litter the shoreline you take a seat, gesturing for him to do likewise.

"Name's Tobyn, an' I can guess who you are," the man replies, with no indication that he has any mind to bow. His rolling Reach accent does grow more pronounced with what you suspect is strain.

"I would rather have this meeting based on something more solid than guesswork," you answer. "I am Viserys Targaryen, and rather than a string of titles which you may or may not care for, I will call myself an enemy of the Deep Ones which I have heard your order too moves against."

"That's an easy thing to say and a hard thing to prove, all the more so standing next to a man whose mind you slaved like they do." The words are sharp, but you would not begrudge them. All things told the clean animosity of a principled man is far from the worst thing you have borne.

"Aught I then have used whips and hot irons to break him into doing his damn job?" you challenge.

"Let him talk for himself then and we'll see," the Lantern Bearer answers.

Trick or honest request you wonder. Though reasonably certain you can handle the former, you decide to err on the side of caution: "Answer this man's questions honestly," you command Warreck.

"That don't mean nothing," Tobyn spits. "You could have given him an order to treat any such command as an instruction to cough up whatever lies you please." The point is well made, you must admit. A skilled mind not only a quick one... he would have to be to have stayed alive treating nobles thus in the Reach of all places.

"Very well," you say as you dismiss the enchantment, tensing for a rescue gambit, but none comes. The Lantern Bearer asks his questions quickly and efficiently, obviously one used to getting the most out of witnesses and captured pensioners both.

As the interrogation winds down the man's expression darkens more and more until at last he curses long and colorfully, including but not limited to implying a great deal of variance in Warreck's family line and suggesting that he commit the sorts of acts that would carry on the supposed family tradition. "Lord's intrigues..." Tobyn hisses between clenched teeth, the scars at the corner of his mouth pulled tight in a grimace. "I fucking hate 'em."

"Well, you are in one either way," Dany points out. "No reason you can't come out of it better than you were."

The warrior gives a short bitter laugh as he finally takes a seat, the dart slipping back into his pocket. "Heard that one before I have. Never from a baby dragon, though." Turning back to you he asks, "What do you want to know and what are you offering?"

"Besides the knowledge that you have been used as a catspaw which will hopefully keep you from being manipulated in the future?" you find yourself more amused than frustrated by the man's gall, though a none-too-kindly part of you wonders if he would react the same were you to stand before you wearing the form of a wyrm and not a man.

"I already have that, don't I?" he shrugs.

What do you reply?

[] Write in


OOC: This is what it looks like to be talking to someone with no social ranks at all outside of intimidate and sense motive. Still, it's a testament to Viserys and Dany's abilities that things did not degenerate into a fight.
 
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Viserys has never encountered a true democracy, but if he did his main objection would not be inefficiency so much as decision-making by people without the expertise to make the decisions, government by popularity contest when popularity does not guarantee competence . His IC argument against democracy would start with something like "Behold Aedon of Lys, much loved by many of his fellow citizens"
That image is horrifying and you should feel bad.
:o:o:o
 
It is better to assume you will die at some point than to believe you are immortal.

Besides, having a true rendition of our life story would be an incredible legacy.
"Believe."
Algalon reads this and even participates.
At least one mod is always in reach.
Ah, but they can't moderate in a thread they are participating in, can they? Mwahahahaha!
Unfortunately, the Manifesto should probably be directly from Viserys, with him just laying out his philosophy and methods in governance, and the ideals and goals of the Imperium at large.

That doesn't mean we can't write the Corlys book - I've actually put a bit of thought into it. I think it should be written under an alias, and some people would suspect it's about us, but it'd never be clear enough to say for sure. The Manifesto would be about what the Emperor wants the world to be like, and the Prince would be about what a bastard knows the world is like.
The alias will obviously be Tiserys Vargaryen, International Man of Mystery. No one will ever suspect our true identity!
 
Viserys has never encountered a true democracy, but if he did his main objection would not be inefficiency so much as decision-making by people without the expertise to make the decisions, government by popularity contest when popularity does not guarantee competence . His IC argument against democracy would start with something like "Behold Aedon of Lys, much loved by many of his fellow citizens"
That's just a sign that Democratic politics need to be more cutthroat. No Aedon or Aurane would make it if there were any actual competition or skills required to keep the job beyond being born in the right place and maxxing social skills.
 
I liked this update a lot @DragonParadox. He had character! Clever use of a skill trick! Good job convincing us that the Lantern Bearers actually manage to defend a city from the illithid, if they have men like that!

Oh, and he must have been at least level 9 to get that skill trick I believe.
 
OOC: This is what it looks like to be talking to someone with no social ranks at all outside of intimidate and sense motive. Still, it's a testament to Viserys and Dany's abilities that things did not degenerate into a fight.
Don't we go through this all the time whenever we talk to Stannis?:p

I imagine most Lantern Bearers are like this since they are based off WHF Witch Hunters which while it doesn't make them likable or easy to work with they do get the job done.
 
By the way quick aside we are going to be usurping this order once we take the throne? I rather like stealing useful orders. Also their depository of lore must be amazing, you know for people who aren't us.
 
By the way, this is proof that the Maesters have some sort of fast travel: our slave sent his message in the morning, got a reply that same day and was told to light a fire that evening. This valued man then turned up, despite the distance from Oldtown.
Clearly Maesters have some sort of way to get around, because they probably weren't leaving agents like him lying around!
 
While true and absolute immortality for Viserys may be chimeric, living so long as to be considered effectively immortal on any human scale is not.
True but the unwavering belief in such a thing in a world like theirs and the belief that they cannot die (or at least stay dead) is the mark of, as i stated before, idiocy or madness.

So far the thread seems to be a bit to confident that the main PC cannot die permanently which is not only stupid but also practically a challenge to the GM.... At least that has been my experience in D&D. When you reach the point of believing that you cannot die permanently the GM will need to do something to dissuade the players of that notion as it makes it hard to take things seriously.
 
By the way, this is proof that the Maesters have some sort of fast travel: our slave sent his message in the morning, got a reply that same day and was told to light a fire that evening. This valued man then turned up, despite the distance from Oldtown.
Clearly Maesters have some sort of way to get around, because they probably weren't leaving agents like him lying around!
If they have a Mind Blank item I don't see why they wouldn't have Teleport at their disposal.
 
By the way, this is proof that the Maesters have some sort of fast travel: our slave sent his message in the morning, got a reply that same day and was told to light a fire that evening. This valued man then turned up, despite the distance from Oldtown.
Clearly Maesters have some sort of way to get around, because they probably weren't leaving agents like him lying around!
More likely he was in the area to investigate whatever it was Brune's people are excavating. They probably contacted him via Sending or a similar magic, and he was near enough to be tapped for the mission.
 
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