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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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spiritualatheist said:
What gets me is that playing at being the damsel shouldn't be working here, unless the Redwynes are somehow forgetting all of our arguments. Even if they believe she is sincere, Westerosi Lords should not be okay with this.
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Theyre probably having issues keeping up. Both Viserys and the Fae lady are using really pretty and flowery language to say shit. I'll be honest and say I don't really get the immediate reaction of the thread going "Holy Shit they should be pissed! This is outrageous!" since every thing is in language thick enough to dull all the implications. Like part of me has trouble keeping up while sober without rereading things twice.

Here's what I'm getting are the cliff notes.
-Viserys wants to know what the crown is for.
-Lady says it's to give they Fey a greatwr understanding of the world and awaken their king
-Viserys asks what this means. How is that inherently good for the not fey like shes implying?
-Lady deflects and admits that Awakening the king gives the Fey their own ultimate arbitrator on Fey Deals (
--what's the situation like now? If there's no way to arbritate a Fey deal yeah I can see why some method to do so could be advantageous.
-Lady has some stuff in their about how the Fey and Humans can easily stick to each other's business, no need to worry too much about meddling and and bad meddling can be resolved by our king
-We want her to swear under a mortal, King Fey can't be the ultimate authority for us
-She starts going all "who do you want more us harmless forrest prancers or a fucking dragon ruling?"
-More I'm so harmless and vulnerable.

If I'm correct I think it's time to get really really blunt for everyone following and spell everything out very clearly. No assumptions about anything anyone knows or can infer.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Guys I get the frustration but let me put it this way, have you ever argued politics online with someone who was doing it in bad faith, someone who was playing to win not find the truth? Moving the goalposts, taking one small part of the argument and making that the new argument, these are all tried, tested and successful strategies.
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So what you're saying is we should eat her now.

Crake said:
It makes actual skill at discourse and rhetoric seem fucking toothless.
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On the contrary, the reason she's doing all this shit is to avoid our teeth in the first place, and as we've seen she's been slipping since the first time we opened our mouth.

One more slip up and those teeth might (hopefully) become a lot more literal.
 
Crake said:
It makes actual skill at discourse and rhetoric seem fucking toothless.
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spiritualatheist said:
Yeah, this is just bringing up Manderley flashbacks. She's what, CR 9? Her social skills simply shouldn't be this good, so she must be getting really substantial boosts from the opinions of the Redwynes. The thing is, they are too substantial for what she is actually saying. This whole combat seems to suggest that we could Alter Self into a comely damsel and convince the whole reach to sign up with our realm by blushing and tittering.
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Guys. Chill.

This isn't about winning Paxter over with words.

This is about finding out what leverage she has on him, taking it away and then beating her to death with it.
 
spiritualatheist said:
Yeah, this is just bringing up Manderley flashbacks. She's what, CR 9? Her social skills simply shouldn't be this good, so she must be getting really substantial boosts from the opinions of the Redwynes. The thing is, they are too substantial for what she is actually saying. This whole combat seems to suggest that we could Alter Self into a comely damsel and convince the whole reach to sign up with our realm by blushing and tittering.
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She has class levels enough to cast Greater dispel magic, that means skill points too.
 
It's whatever, this is why I don't vote or plan anymore.

A lot of the time it is stressful to know no matter how much work you put in sometimes there isn't much winning unless you uncover the McGuffin linked to the "advance the plot" slot.
 
Crake said:
It's whatever, this is why I don't vote or plan anymore.

A lot of the time it is stressful to know no matter how much work you put in sometimes there isn't much winning unless you uncover the McGuffin linked to the "advance the plot" slot.
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Ouch... that's really not something I like to hear but if it's how you feel it's good that you pointed it out. The last thing I want to do is railroad you guys. What specifically in the last update felt like that?

I'm asking to I can improve in the future.
 
Crake said:
It's whatever, this is why I don't vote or plan anymore.

A lot of the time it is stressful to know no matter how much work you put in sometimes there isn't much winning unless you uncover the McGuffin linked to the "advance the plot" slot.
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Crake, I can see where you're coming from, but I don't think the anger and frustration is warranted. The situation is complicated and the Lady obviously am old hand at this sort of thing.
 
@DragonParadox Not everyone agrees with me, but it feels like you have very specific itemized objects which must be linked with this vote in particular to get the reaction we want, which doesn't seem to gel with how rational and logical we have approached this situation.

There should be more than one way to achieve success in social combat.
 
Fuck it I'll outright say you should probably consider me as a stand in for the other Reachers. I'm not drunk but I'm pretty much just glancing at the thread and hammering out shit without really looking it over while procrastinating my last thing I need to do at work before Xmas so similar focus.

I think they're thinking "oh shit there's angry dread sorcerer fuck fuck fuck. Oh wait he's not gonna kill us? We're gonna drink? Cool

Oh hey he's talking about shit with that hot lady. Uhh stuff about kings n shit? Huh some of that stuff sounds serious but do we really trust that guy? She's not really the deceitful grumpkin he's saying she is? Yeah I mean it sounds great if we could get more clear dealing from the Fey or whatever."

I think there needs to be a very simple, blunt statement that very clearly tells everyone the top thing they should be really pissed about. I'm not vote crafting since I'm not Sure I'm following enough to get what that should be.
 
welp! so, either she finds someone higher up the chain who isn't an idiot and can swear fealty for the entire court to do so, in which case we'll forget all about this, try to fight us for the crown, in which case she will lose and probably die, try to steal the crown without fighting somehow, which is much more doable for her but doesn't ultimately change too much as if dreaming lord whoever gets the crown either he can can actually do a good job in curbing the worst excesses of the court, in which case this didn't matter all that much and we'll probably just lecture dusk dancer on her rudeness if we ever see her again but leave it at that, or do a poor job or even be actively malicious, in which case all it means is that we'll deal with the problem when we get to invading westeros and just do our usual thing.
 
Crake said:
@DragonParadox Not everyone agrees with me, but it feels like you have very specific itemized objects which must be linked with this vote in particular to get the reaction we want, which doesn't seem to gel with how rational and logical we have approached this situation.

There should be more than one way to achieve success in social combat.
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I don't really see it. I mean, we've been pushing her back consistently, even if she got lucky in the last round. And one of the audience just handed us a proverbial chair to beat her with. This is taking a little longer than expected, but we would have had her either way.

Which, mind you, doesn't mean we're not going to use the perfectly good chair we just got handed, because why wouldn't we?
 
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Crake said:
It's whatever, this is why I don't vote or plan anymore.

A lot of the time it is stressful to know no matter how much work you put in sometimes there isn't much winning unless you uncover the McGuffin linked to the "advance the plot" slot.
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Crake, are you okay? I don't find the need to react like this. Is everything okay with you?
 
Crake said:
@DragonParadox Not everyone agrees with me, but it feels like you have very specific itemized objects which must be linked with this vote in particular to get the reaction we want, which doesn't seem to gel with how rational and logical we have approached this situation.

There should be more than one way to achieve success in social combat.
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I don't have any such list, but obviously just my word on the matter does not fix things. I know things like this can be tricky to pin down but what part of the update (or the ones before it) felt like they were on rails?
 
A_Somebody said:
I think there needs to be a very simple, blunt statement that very clearly tells everyone the top thing they should be really pissed about. I'm not vote crafting since I'm not Sure I'm following enough to get what that should be.
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I mean you're not wrong. In fact I'd argue that's what we've been doing for the last few votes.

Though the problem might be that we've overestimated the intelligence of the people in the room. We might have to break out the sock puppets.
 
DragonParadox said:
I don't have any such list, but obviously just my word on the matter does not fix things. I know things like this can be tricky to pin down but what part of the update (or the ones before it) felt like they were on rails?
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I'll take your word for it, not any two perspectives on the same updates will be the same after all, and clearly aren't.
 
Crake said:
I disagree with the story direction here, but don't mind me, clearly I am in the too-vocal-better-keep-my-opinion-to-myself-again minority.
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Crake, I'm not complaining about you voicing your opinion. I'm worried about the frustration you are showing while doing thus. I don't really find the need for that. Hence I'm asking if you are okay.
 
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