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A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover

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I already admitted I was frustrated, guys, I am willing to concede that we just got unlucky.

I don't feel that way from how I read the updates and my skepticism that she should have done as well as she did even with experience and similar social rep.

There's just a aura of dreadful impotence hovering over some really good write-ins, and that really annoys me.
 
Crake said:
I disagree with the story direction here, but don't mind me, clearly I am in the too-vocal-better-keep-my-opinion-to-myself-again minority.
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I'm getting your frustration and I didn't want to imply that you should shut up.

I just think that having a hard encounter isn't the same as a bad encounter. And frankly, we did ignore Paxter quite a bit so far. Her hogwash simply looked so juicy a target, even though it was ultimately not that useful to press her there.
 
Azel said:
I'm getting your frustration and I didn't want to imply that you should shut up.

I just think that having a hard encounter isn't the same as a bad encounter. And frankly, we did ignore Paxter quite a bit so far. Her hogwash simply looked so juicy a target.
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That's fair and valid. Proceed.
 
Crake said:
@DragonParadox Not everyone agrees with me, but it feels like you have very specific itemized objects which must be linked with this vote in particular to get the reaction we want, which doesn't seem to gel with how rational and logical we have approached this situation.

There should be more than one way to achieve success in social combat.
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Agreed. I don't mind the fey being good at social, or us suffering setbacks in the combat. But her superlative skill should be reflected in that combat. Like, if she was, I dunno, weaving some grand vision of human and fey cooperation and almost literally holding her audience spellbound, that would be fine. That would be awesome. But her skill and rolls aren't reflected in the update, so it feels that she is just doing something normal westerosi ladies might, except it works.

Or, you know, given that the fey raised horas redwyne, she could allude to the past benefits of cooperation. That would be cool.
 
Crake said:
I already admitted I was frustrated, guys, I am willing to concede that we just got unlucky.

I don't feel that way from how I read the updates and my skepticism that she should have done as well as she did even with experience and similar social rep.

There's just a aura of dreadful impotence hovering over some really good write-ins, and that really annoys me.
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The thing is she is playing dirty and she has the home field advantage, since she has known these people much longer than you. IC this is supposed to feel unfair. Maybe the line is just too fine between that and the feeling that you are being railroaded out of character.

I will try to improve on finding the proper balance on this.
 
spiritualatheist said:
Agreed. I don't mind the fey being good at social, or us suffering setbacks in the combat. But her superlative skill should be reflected in that combat. Like, if she was, I dunno, weaving some grand vision of human and fey cooperation and almost literally holding her audience spellbound, that would be fine. That would be awesome. But her skill and rolls aren't reflected in the update, so it feels that she is just doing something normal westerosi ladies might, except it works.

Or, you know, given that the fey raised horas redwyne, she could allude to the past benefits of cooperation. That would be cool.
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She is likely augmenting her middling skills through copious use of magic. I would be shocked if she isn't at least using Air of Nobility. Probably something like Heroism and Seducer's Eyes, too.
 
spiritualatheist said:
Agreed. I don't mind the fey being good at social, or us suffering setbacks in the combat. But her superlative skill should be reflected in that combat. Like, if she was, I dunno, weaving some grand vision of human and fey cooperation and almost literally holding her audience spellbound, that would be fine. That would be awesome. But her skill and rolls aren't reflected in the update, so it feels that she is just doing something normal westerosi ladies might, except it works.

Or, you know, given that the fey raised horas redwyne, she could allude to the past benefits of cooperation. That would be cool.
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Thank you. This was very helpful, enough so that I'm going to go in and touch up the update, nothing with consequences for the vote just presentation improvements.
 
Needing a bit more time to flesh out my vote, as we have to take a shot in the dark here.

Two things stand out like a sore thumb here:
- Paxter Redwyne, the lord of the Arbor and one of the most powerful people in the Reach, is pretty much playing second fiddle to the lady who tries her best to look like hired help
- there is an undisclosed bargain between her court and the Tyrells that clearly involves some kind of service, as she flat out denies the possibility of her courts allegiance being on the table

What is also odd is that Paxter never even implied that the Tyrells have leverage over the court. It seems this whole mission isn't exactly in Mace's best interest, but Paxter seems quite insistent on the matter going through in some way and especially about keeping it quiet.

Edit: Now waiting for DPs adjustments before finalizing.
 
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From my read people are frustrated partially because arguing with someone arguing in bad faith who uses emotional appeals and scare mongering is incredibly frustrating. Especially when you are trying to win that argument with rhetoric and logic.
There's also a little good old fashioned "look at our numbers, how are we not doing non stop top of the key 360 dunks on her?" Which isn't helped because we have her 'base' stats to compare against.
The dipomacy rework was designed so that we didn't auto win all social encounters, even in situations where we absolutely should by RAW. To do otherwise wouldn't be terribly suspensful.
@DragonParadox, I'm not saying don't take the feedback being offered, I'm saying you wrote this character in such a way that she'd be infuriating for both IC and OOC reasons. I would posit that you shouldn't be surprised when some people are therefor annoyed
 
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Evaunit02mark1 said:
I mean you're not wrong. In fact I'd argue that's what we've been doing for the last few votes.

Though the problem might be that we've overestimated the intelligence of the people in the room. We might have to break out the sock puppets.
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As self appointed "Dumb drunk Reacher" stand-in. Yes. I will admit I don't really see/feel the amazing social knockout against this lady pretty much everyone else in the thread does. Idk, like nothing here feels as punch or definitive as other Viserys moments.

Also this is how I see the most coherent train of thought.

"Huh, they want the crown themselves? Thats kinda weird. Words Words Words. Oh they want it to understand people better? Thats cool. They'll go crazy eventually if they dont? Thats not cool. Words Words. Oh hey they'll have a dude we can complain to about bad deals? That sounds great! Right now you just have to suck it up and deal!* Words. Words. Huh yeah fey people do tend to stick with their woods n shit and they can't lie. Even dragon man agrees with the not lieing part. Also I just like the hot lady that's been with us for a bit more than the technical traitor merchant might-as-well-be-Essosi-and-should-just-stay-there dragonspawn, , maybe baby blood bather"

* Assumption
 
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Azel said:
What is also odd is that Paxter never even implied that the Tyrells have leverage over the court. It seems this whole mission isn't exactly in Mace's best interest, but Paxter seems quite insistent on the matter going through in some way and especially about keeping it quiet.
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It looks like it is the court are the ones with influence over the Tyrells, and a game of intrigue of some sort has been used to coerce Paxter too.

The human side made a terrible bargain. I wonder if we can simply arrange a later meeting while we scry and Legend Lore all the necessary information.
 
Technical traitor?

We were betrayed.

Heinously, in fact. I'm offended at the drunken rambling.

But I'm offended at most drunk rambling by Westerosi lords, so pay no heed...
 
It's important to note that, well, she's actually been around these people for quite awhile and, presumably, done quite a lot to help them and make them trust her.

There's only so much that someone losing an argument can do to counteract that. I'm sure everyone here would call bull if, I don't know, say, the Sealord started to seriously question his alliance with us and instead started thinking of siding with someone else simply because we were losing an argument about how much we plan to help them in a possible future, especially while we are still maintaining that we will still have their back even if we can't give specifics, especially if he knows for a fact that we cannot lie when we say we still have their backs.

This clearly is not a perfect comparison, but you get where I'm coming from, right? It's not always possible to turn someone against someone that's been of real help to them in the past in a 10 minute conversation.
 
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Azel said:
- Paxter Redwyne, the lord of the Arbor and one of the most powerful people in the Reach, is pretty much playing second fiddle to the lady who tries her best to look like hired help
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Well, he does likely have far lower social skills.

Also he's out of his depth here, the Fey knows what she is dealing with, he has to deal with things being mentioned like "he'll still be coiled around the Iron Throne when my grandchildren's grandchildren are dust" or the relativly incredible point that we fully intend to make a Fey Court in it's full power swear fealty to us.
That must be pretty hard on the poor mortal, no wonder he takes a step back.

The only way he wouldn't be playing second fiddle right now, no matter how they intended to play it, would be if we kept this talk on topics he is familiar with.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Well, he does likely have far lower social skills.

Also he's out of his depth here, the Fey knows what she is dealing with, he has to deal with things being mentioned like "he'll still be coiled around the Iron Throne when my grandchildren's grandchildren are dust" or the relativly incredible point that we fully intend to make a Fey Court in it's full power swear fealty to us.
That must be pretty hard on the poor mortal, no wonder he takes a step back.

The only way he wouldn't be playing second fiddle right now, no matter how they intended to play it, would be if we kept this talk on topics he is familiar with.
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But he hasn't even made an attempt at looking like he's in charge of his side. That hints at the fact he's very much not in charge, because the Fae have him by the balls.
 
Edits done The following paragraph has been added, an appeal to pride:

Taking a deep breath she continues: "In the age of dawn when the world was young young fey and mortal moved in concordance, there was peace and no dominion. the use of our powers we traded freely for for the work of men's hands and minds. Is it any wonder that we would offer so much more now that you have grown in skill and artistry beyond the dreams of the ancients?" So deftly does she flatter, you realize grudgingly admiring. To speak of times long gone not as a lost golden age, but one lesser than the one these men could forge gives them reason to be proud and seek unity of purpose with her all at once.
 
065tdsa said:
But he hasn't even made an attempt at looking like he's in charge of his side. That hints at the fact he's very much not in charge, because the Fae have him by the balls.
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They did make it look like he was in charge before we started arguing with the Fey.

It's just that this conversation is mostly outside his solid ground, so to say.
 
I am amused because she simply cannot see how bad of a situation this could have been. They come into an area where raiding is not only sanction but government approved. We raised the flags of parlay which they refused. There are Tritons swarming under the ship. The crew has every justification to sink this damm ship. If it wasn't for their house flag that ship would be underwater right now. She is extremely lucky that she, the ship and these dumbass Reach men aren't singing a shanty at the bottom of the ocean. Naval doctrine would be demanding shots fired right now. I am imagining this happening in the high seas of the Caribbean and all I can think is "oh this ship sunk".
 
Duesal said:
What?

How, in any scenario, are we the traitors?
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Well random Reach person is technically sworn to Mace-->Robert and Viserys is fighting against them so that totally counts as treason or something among those lines (traitor and treason are punchier words than 'enemy combatant' . also not sure there's a term for "head of state that we' re only in a cold war with since hes busy elsewhere and we can't do Jack shit" )
 
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