Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Inexpensive compared to our usual budget. 1/day Fly and 3/day Feather Fall would be sufficient.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
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- Tags
- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
Inexpensive compared to our usual budget. 1/day Fly and 3/day Feather Fall would be sufficient.
- Location
- United States
And I believe you're not giving this the worry it deserves. This isn't a dog, this is a feral red dragon. If you think a child—even an older child—will be properly able to handle one (friendly reminder, DP ruled that they see everyone who isn't their rider as a walking meal, just to give you an idea of the temperament we're dealing with) then I'm just at a loss for words.
The amulet will not help, by the way.
It relies on the wearer to have innate skill.
Rhaenys is a child, and won't have that skill, so the rerolls would be pointless.
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- United States
Nope, I read Fire & Blood and it's completely plot armor. Admittedly there was also a heavy degree of the fact that none of the Targs were actually any good at war besides "Apply Dragons" which worked out fine until the Dornish were like "Supplies? Places to live? Shelter? Pshaw!" There was also the fact that they managed to get their entire fleet sunk and apparently the Arbor wasn't willing to cough up anything, which is what gave Daeron, who really wasn't any smarter, a degree of initial success. He then proceeded to botch it, of course, but the point stands.
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Explains why the Young Dragon conquers it later. He actually knew war and while the casualties were horrendous he did complete the goal of conquest. Too bad that after he was assassinated under a truce flag his heir decided to be a fucking pansy and let Dorne get away with it.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
And to think. All Baelor had to fucking do was kill the hostages and then take all of the legitimately angry vassals of his, and kill all the Dornish.
It literally would have been that simple. They went too far, no one would have blinked at depopulating every castle of everyone involved in that break of parley. I guarantee over half the houses in Dorne would be extinct by present day. And the first time the rabble so much as SQUEAKED in my direction I would have depopulated them too and moved in some loyal Crownlanders. Not like they would have been running short of them.
Fucking Dornish.
*deep breath*
But they're our loyal vassals and family these days, or at least the Martells, at any rate. What can ya do?
It literally would have been that simple. They went too far, no one would have blinked at depopulating every castle of everyone involved in that break of parley. I guarantee over half the houses in Dorne would be extinct by present day. And the first time the rabble so much as SQUEAKED in my direction I would have depopulated them too and moved in some loyal Crownlanders. Not like they would have been running short of them.
Fucking Dornish.
*deep breath*
But they're our loyal vassals and family these days, or at least the Martells, at any rate. What can ya do?
Turns out all we had to do was make a marriage alliance with Dorne, have the family the alliance rested on killed by a third party, and come together in revenge. Too easy.
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Baelor the Blessed, more like Baelor the fuckup. I mean really the fact that we legitimately thought of diplomancing him makes me question all the things that day.
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- United States
Just because he was a horrible excuse for a king doesn't mean he couldn't be useful in other regards.
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- United States
I have to give credit where it's due, he was very useful as a sacrifice. With his death the Old Gods' rage against the Andals has been quelled by a lot, and we get to spare loyalist Andal houses.
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- United States
Do we actually know that's a thing, or is it an assumption? I don't recall ever being told that.
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Yes the man who was so religious that he starved himself and locked his sisters away to "resist temptation" would have been useful. Yeah sure very useful as a sacrifice.. He wasn't just a bad king. He was a generally shite person who used religion as his tool. Maegor was a monster but this shit was a plain old tool.
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- United States
It's certainly not just an assumption.
This is something that's been confirmed repeatedly.It's common knowledge in this quest that the entire reason we had to dispose of some Andal houses in the first place was because some voices in the Old Gods want all the Andals dead. Bloodraven reigned them in and instead told them they could get some of the Andals (hence Grafton). This is coincidentally the reason Dalla is a thing. She's basically a big vent for the anger of the Old Gods by sacrificing random Andals.
By sacrificing an angel favored by the Father, a lot of that rage has been quelled, and we're subsequently allowed to spare the Andal houses who were loyal to House Targaryen.
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- Location
- Australia
Nope, it even creates more enemies because there will always be some group inherently against it to the point of suicidal tendencies meaning it's also clean and renewable.
Valyrian Dragons and Dragon Eggs
- Location
- United States
Valyrian Dragons & Dragon Eggs
What is a Valyrian Dragon?
A Valyrian Dragon is a Feral Red Dragon, a species which has been bred for millennia by the Valyrian Freehold after they overthrew their Red Dragon tyrants over the course of a long and bloody rebellion. Through the greatest artifice and vengeance of the Freehold, the Red Dragons masters were twisted, cursed to lose their cunning and magic, turned into mounts.
How is a Valyrian Dragon different from a Red Dragon?
Mechanically, they take on the Feral Dragon template, but with a few differences. First of all, unlike normal Feral Dragons, the Valyrian Dragons do not lose their DR or SR. Secondly, Valyrian Dragons lack a front pair of limbs. This should be taken into account for their natural attacks and for equipment.
Who can ride a Valyrian Dragon?
The generic rules are that you either need Valyrian coloring (silver hair and purple eyes) or you need direct dragonlord descent (so either be from one of the Forty Families like the Targaryens or be one of their dragonseed bastards). Typically children aged twelve and above are permitted to rear a Valyrian Dragon from the egg, while only adults aged twenty and above are allowed to try to tame a wild Valyrian Dragon due to the danger.
Valyrian Dragon Eggs:
1. Pink as the first hints of dawn's light -- retrieved from the devils -- gained on the Thirteenth Day of the Third Month 293 AC -- promised to Zherys on the Fourth Day of the Fourth Month 293 AC until Zherys ended up binding Caraxes the Blood Wyrm instead on the Second Day of the Eleventh Month 293 AC.
2. Black with specs of gold -- retrieved from the devils -- gained on the Thirteenth Day of the Third Month 293 AC -- given to Rhaella Targaryen on the Sixth Day of the Fourth Month 293 AC, but made a moot point when Rhaella tamed Silverwing. It is now back in the royal treasury awaiting reassignment.
5.
6. Midnight black with sparks of amber -- taken from Daena the Defiant's hidden cache -- gained on the Fourteenth Day of the Third Month 293 AC -- given to Daenerys Targaryen on the Sixth Day of the Fourth Month 293 AC
7. Jade green -- gifted by the Sealord as a symbol of Braavos' friendship and its future allegiance -- gained on the Seventeenth Day of the Third Month 293 AC -- given to Malarys Vanor on the Sixth Day of the Fourth Month 293 AC
8. Dark purple with swirling cloud-like patterns -- recovered from the palace in Lyceos -- gained on the Twenty-Ninth Day of the Sixth Month 293 AC
9. Copper dotted with specks of what almost seem like fresh blood -- recovered from the palace in Lyceos -- gained on the Twenty-Ninth Day of the Sixth Month 293 AC
10. Ash grey fading to black towards the base -- recovered from the palace in Lyceos -- gained on the Twenty-Ninth Day of the Sixth Month 293 AC
14. Faded yellow with bright golden patches -- recovered from the city of Lyceos -- gained on the Second Day of the Seventh Month 293 AC
15. Sapphire blue -- recovered from the city of Lyceos -- gained on the Second Day of the Seventh Month 293 AC
16. Brown and green -- found in a cave in the Vale by Dalla -- gained on the Fourth Day of the Seventh Month 293 AC
Vassals' Eggs:
There are five known Valyrian Dragon Eggs in the hands of Volantene nobility that have yet to be hatched.
Valyrian Dragons:
Dawnfyre -- Valaena Velaryon's dragon -- size of a griffon -- dark red in color -- hatched on the Twenty-Seventh Day of the Second Month 293 AC
Ember -- Joran of Dragonstone's dragon -- size of a small horse -- ember in color -- retrieved on the Thirteenth Day of the Third Month 293 AC
Sheepstealer -- Nettles of Dragonstone's dragon -- lower end of huge-sized -- muddy brown in color -- raised from the dead on the Fourth Day of the Seventh Month 293 AC
Silverwing -- Rhaella Targaryen's dragon -- Mature Adult -- silver in color -- raised from the dead on the Eighteenth Day of the Ninth Month 293 AC
Korzion -- Saenena Caleris' dragon -- Adult -- rust red in color -- raised from the dead on the Eighteenth Day of the Ninth Month 293 AC
Meleys the Red Queen -- Maelor's dragon -- Adult -- crimson in color -- raised from the dead on the Eighteenth Day of the Ninth Month 293 AC -- assigned to Maelor on the Second Day of the Eleventh Month 293 AC -- tamed by Maelor on the Sixteenth Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC
Caraxes the Blood Wyrm -- Zherys Naethyreon's dragon -- Young Adult -- blood red in color -- raised from the dead on the Eighteenth Day of the Ninth Month 293 AC -- assigned to Zherys on the Second Day of the Eleventh Month 293 AC -- tamed by Zherys on the Fifteenth Day of the Eleventh Month 293 AC
Grey Ghost -- Teana Strycos' dragon -- Adult -- ash grey in color -- raised from the dead on the Eighteenth Day of the Ninth Month 293 AC
Balerion the Black Dread -- Viserys Targaryen's dragon -- Advanced Wyrm -- black in color -- raised from the dead on the Eighteenth Day of the Ninth Month 293 AC
Gaelenys -- Aelor Caleris' dragon -- hatchling -- burnt orange adorned with golden flames -- hatched on the Fourth Day of the Third Month 294 AC
??? -- Aenie Caleris' dragon -- hatchling -- forest green and amber -- hatched on the Fourth Day of the Third Month 294 AC
Skepsi -- Reva Bealus' dragon -- hatchling -- pale almost ghostly silver -- hatched on the Fourth Day of the Third Month 294 AC
Anamnisi -- Liset Bealus' dragon -- hatchling -- pale almost ghostly silver -- hatched on the Fourth Day of the Third Month 294 AC
Ghost -- Jon Snow's dragon -- hatchling (counts as Animal Companion) -- ash-grey with specks of red and gold like the last dying embers of some old flame or perhaps the first sparks of a new one -- hatched on the Twentieth Day of the Fourth Month 294 AC
Deathwind -- Bloodraven's dragon -- hatchling (counts as Familiar for delivering Touch Spells) -- Black with grey pasterns that almost recall skulls -- hatched on the Sixth Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC
Stormrider -- Monford Velaryon's dragon -- hatchling -- azure-blue and sea-green, the hues changing with every motion even in the steady magelight -- hatched on the Seventeenth Day of the Fifth Month 294 AC
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Alright. I just wasn't sure that 'Made OGs chill' was a qualitative benefit from sacrificing Baelor, as DP hasn't confirmed that in the text.It's certainly not just an assumption.
I won't deny that I'm disappointed in how that whole business ended, but diplomancing him was something that required more than one conversation and a degree of risk as well as not killing him immediately, all of which would've had to be forced through the teeth and over the enraged cries of half the thread. Some of whom had completely valid concerns about the danger Baelor absolutely posed or his potential usefulness compared to as a sacrifice, and others just irrationally hated him as dear Autum Leaf so artfully displayed. Add in the fact that we just didn't have the time to handle the matter properly, and I couldn't insist that we should attempt to flip him in spite of all these reasons not to, circumstantial or otherwise.
I'm super glad we moved to a different system, the old one was just strangling the quest.
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The time wasn't a real factor in this. If we wanted to we would have made time.
The main argument was that the majority of us just saw it as an unacceptable risk to leave ourselves vulnerable to a fanatic angel with the Kingkiller template and give up our single best shot at an ambush to end the threat for good.
Could we have diplomanced Baelor? Maybe (though I'm leaning towards no, honestly). Would the risk have been worth it? Hell no.
And Autumn Leaf isn't alone in his contempt for Baelor, and he's perfectly justified in it. The man was a deranged fanatic. He was bad enough that literally nobody in our party who would have normally protested spoke up against his sacrifice.
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- United States
I think it was. That's why we ended up in that crappy position where we either had to immediately attack or put ourselves in serious danger.
Pretty much this, yes. It's a perfectly correct and valid position, and one that ultimately carried through. I'm upset that we were forced to put the decision in those lenses. I think if we'd talked when we weren't forcing ourselves into serious danger, the whole matter could have been handled differently. Or not. We'll never know.
I do know that we were in a similar, if not identical, situation with Syrax. One where we had plenty of time to debate and get more information. One where the party clashed over the danger she posed, how trustworthy or useful she was, how much pity or contempt she deserved. In the end, the mercy group won and a resolution I believe everyone is happy with was reached.
This is where I flat our disagree with you. Baelor was naive and stupid. He caused an immense amount of harm through his actions. Both in the immediate term (his sisters) and the long term (blackfyre rebellion, burnt books, Dorne, whoo boy).
What he was not is a frothing, dangerous fanatic. He didn't burn anyone at the stake, he thought all his actions were for the benefit of the people and his kingdom. People literally are comparing him with Maegor, and that's just absurd.
I get that no one likes a fundamentalist and the Seven have earned their place in our ire, but give the man some credit, or at least understanding. Nobody in our party protested, but even Bloodraven felt bad about it.
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I do not deny my dislike for Baelor the Blessed. He reminds me all too much of fanatics. But if it were just dislike I would have been fine with whatever decision was made. My problem with diplomacy and him was threefold.
One: My obvious dislike. I don't deny it. I feel he was a man who was a fool in life and a man who sold his soul to his "precious gods" to redeem what he thought was the "mistakes" of his life. His faith was strong but I have always despised fanatics and he was one to the core.
Two: His allegiance. His allegiance was to the Seven. Our vaunted enemies and gods who, for the most part, have done everything they can in preparation for the big fight between us and them so that they can walk out. Now we have done the same so I am not too angry but I tend not to be diplomatic towards people who want to work against against my (or in this case our) interests.
Three: His template. Kingkiller. Do I need to link the template. You know what I really should. Here. So I am supposed to believe that talking to him isn't abandoning the initiative of battle if or more likely when he decided our terms weren't good enough. In this regard I honestly felt that, while subversion is always good, this wasn't the time for it and thus push for the murder/sacrifice.
So in conclusion while hate did play a part I am not nearly so petty as to let just my dislike fuel my decisions when it came to that matter. But thanks for implying it. I am perfectly willing to defend my thought process though.
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Man I feel like I need to defend myself a bit here. Not sure if "I wanna hear what he has to say for himself and then tear him apart with words first," really counts as "Diplomancing," in the traditional usage of the term.
@TotallyNotEvil here's a story on it https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw2Qau-yMrzhNXtigJ3VBOyh&ust=1544841069007057
Fond comments stating the planning had been happening for years though.
- Location
- United States
No? It was because he was too dangerous to leave alone. Even with the new system we would still have been rushing to end him. He was literally in the process of diplomancing lords against us. Hell, Rina's father got diplomanced by the bastard.
It is what it is, dude. If he hadn't had the Kingkiller template then maybe we would have considered talking to him, but there is such a thing as too dangerous to ever risk.
No, Syrax was very different. Syrax was bargaining with us from the start, with her intentions towards us being ambiguous. Baelor explicitly started as our enemy, an angel in service of the Father (the same aspect of the Seven who started a crusade against us by making it Lucan's divine mission to kill us), with a template that screamed "I was made to kill you". There is a time and place for diplomacy and that was not it.
... That's what I call a fanatic.
He imprisoned his sisters in the Maidenvault and forbid them from marrying anyone to keep them "pure".
He burned books he deemed sinful in the eyes of the Seven (mainly poor Septon Barth's works, I would have dearly loved a copy of An Unnatural History...).
He raised random commoners to the position of High Septon, twice. Why? Apparently the Seven told him to. Whether or not they actually spoke to him regarding this is a matter for debate, but it certainly wasn't a smart move. If we're going by quest canon then the Seven were silent during the years of dead magic, so Baelor was pretty much just insane.
You don't need to be burning people at the stake to be a fanatic.
Baelor was a fanatic. He may have been well-meaning in some regards, but he was still a fanatic and a fool.
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He's currently studying in the Scholarum with Ember, his dog-sized Valyrian Dragon. IIRC he was a level 1 Sorcerer, but he may have leveled up. I think the second he levels up he'll try to go out adventuring to earn money for his family's resurrection.
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You mean Doran? Well last we checked he was studying magic, feeding his dragon and found two senpai's to look after him. So yeah he is going through his heroes journey in a sense.
Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
Barth wasn't really spot on with his dragon lore, anyway, there was very little he, Maester Thomax and Munkin could have taught us that we don't already know.
But on the other side of things, some pages of his books survived, and we actually got an entire copy of Dragonkin, Being a History of House Targaryen from Exile to Apotheosis, with a Consideration of the Life and Death of Dragons when we copied all the books in Castle black. We also got a copy of Jade Compendium along with it.
Edit:
FUNFACT #2
In the books, Dragonkin is damaged slightly when Sam drops both books accidentally, leaving a few pages incomplete.
We copied both books before this occurred.
And we doubtlessly made multiple copies when we made three libraries, because of course there's redundant ones so multiple people can check them out.
We preserved so much knowledge that would have been lost.
But on the other side of things, some pages of his books survived, and we actually got an entire copy of Dragonkin, Being a History of House Targaryen from Exile to Apotheosis, with a Consideration of the Life and Death of Dragons when we copied all the books in Castle black. We also got a copy of Jade Compendium along with it.
Edit:
FUNFACT #2
In the books, Dragonkin is damaged slightly when Sam drops both books accidentally, leaving a few pages incomplete.
We copied both books before this occurred.
And we doubtlessly made multiple copies when we made three libraries, because of course there's redundant ones so multiple people can check them out.
We preserved so much knowledge that would have been lost.
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