But why should we mount close range weapons on a jet-bike when we could instead mount long range anti-vehicle weapons like lascannons or maybe Starcarvers.
Because in the circumstances we're going to most want to be engaging in ground combat rather than just bombarding whatever from orbit, we're going to have reasons to want to limit the opposing army's time to do shit.

And backing off and plinking from range leaves the initiative to them.
 
Because in the circumstances we're going to most want to be engaging in ground combat rather than just bombarding whatever from orbit, we're going to have reasons to want to limit the opposing army's time to do shit.

And backing off and plinking from range leaves the initiative to them.
Yeah, but I don't want to dive fragile fast attack units right into the enemy. Thats what tanks and stuff with grav-shields are for.
 
If we want something meant for long range I'd go fusion mortars.
Fusion Mortars are a plasma-based tactical artillery weapon that fire highly compressed 'shells' of plasma in a preprogrammed arc trajectory, releasing a large blast of superheated plasma comparable to more conventional artillery weapons of comparable size, though obviously the operator can simply set a flat trajectory and fire them like a conventional weapon.
The man-portable form is designed to be either shoulder-fired whilst on the move, or emplaced with an adjustable bipod, whilst larger versions can be mounted to vehicles or even voidships as powerful close-combat weapons.

Type: Heavy | Vehicle | Superheavy | Naval
Equipment Points cost: 18 | 32 | 110 | 6
cheap, indirect AOE fire that can soften up forces for being finished off by our infantry or other vehicles.
 
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If Heavy Support was the next squad type to get rationalized, I've got a light grav vehicle that mounts double vehicular fusion mortars to flog about.

Alas, not this upcoming turn, I don't think.
 
Yeah, but I don't want to dive fragile fast attack units right into the enemy. Thats what tanks and stuff with grav-shields are for.
fast attack is supposed to drive right into an enemy however, so this is actually not a smart tactic. peppering something from long range is an artillery role. fast attack is for flanking on an enemy and pulling away before they can retaliate sufficiently to kill the vehicle in question.

we aren't going to field an effective army if we try to over minimize risk. all war is risk. it's not a thing you can design out.
 
fast attack is supposed to drive right into an enemy however, so this is actually not a smart tactic. peppering something from long range is an artillery role. fast attack is for flanking on an enemy and pulling away before they can retaliate sufficiently to kill the vehicle in question.

we aren't going to field an effective army if we try to over minimize risk. all war is risk. it's not a thing you design out.
Yeah, but why drive straight up to the enemy when you can shoot them with a lascannon from a mile away?

In a comparison between lascannon-armed jet-bikes and melee range jet-bikes vs tanks, Lascannons takes a bit longer to wear down the tanks, but will suffer far less casualties because they don't need to get close to enemy guns, and thus have more time to evade shots and such


Edit:
My suggestion for Vehicle Roles:
Skirmisher - Razorwind
Fast Attack Anti-Tank - Heavy Jetbike or Skimmer with lascannons/starcarvers and a Holofield
Light Artillery - Cloudburst Attack Skimmer
Medium Tank - Starhammer Battle Tank
Artillery Unit - Light Grav-vehicle with 2x vehicle Plasma Mortars, 1x Heavy Needler, 1x Holofield, 2x Gravshield (trades 1 heavy mount and 4 system slots to vehicle mount)
Heavy Tank - Star Anvil Superheavy Assault Tank
IFV - Refit/redesign Needlestorm IFV with Holofield and Grav Shields, maybe downgrade Fateshredder to 2x Heavy Needlers
APC - Mirage Hover-Transport
 
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I was looking at the canon Eldar high end wargear and wondering where they might fit.

I wonder if Witch Staves are any different to our generic Force Staves. Witch Staves are described as setting the souls of people struck by them on fire, which may have some synergies with pyromancy, or be a, probably failed, attempt to let less skilled psykers replicate the effects of True Flames.

Similarly, with the unique characteristics of Witchblades and Singing Spears.

They're lower tier Eldar character war gear only available to characters, so presumably are better than generic force weapons, but it's hard to say.

The next step up are things built from the shards of Anaris, last and most perfect of the hundred swords Vaul forged when chained to his anvil. The weapon was taken by Kahine when he killled Eldanesh, and then apparently shattered alongside Him when he fought Slaneesh, and scattered like the Shards of Khaine were so there quite a lot of pieces out there.

It's probably the most exotic of exotic components, impossible to make any more of, but they can be used to make different kinds of weapon; at least glaives and sword forms exist, but as a Craftworld of Vaulite innovators, we might find other things to do with them.

The other category of Eldar weaponry are soulstone based weapons that hold a soul that does something to people the weapon hits. Some of these are pretty nasty, such as the Soulshrive that feeds on the pain of people it hits and uses that to strengthen the wielder, Dark Eldar style. Or the soul stone based weapons the Ynnari use like the Soulblast blade that consumes the target's life force, I think to do the same.

There are also more legendary versions using a similar principe; like the sword made from the severed hand of an Avater powered by a soul stone containing the souls of multiple Young Kings used to animate that shard.

But why should we mount close range weapons on a jet-bike when we could instead mount long range anti-vehicle weapons like lascannons or maybe Starcarvers. Sure, they might take longer to kill stuff, but the jet bike would be exposed to much less risk

Because that's what Grav Tanks are for, basically. Jet bikes are generally built for very rapid close range hit and run attacks.

That's what they have short range weapons like shuriken catapults, or the wielders using very short ranged weapons like laser lances.

Their job is to get up close and personal with enemy units that really weren't expecting it, give the a quick kicking, and then run away before they can respond.

Vehicle scale weapons are generally more optimal for shooting from longer range, and we need grab tanks for that.
 
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Because that's what Grav Tanks are for, basically. Jet bikes are generally built for very rapid close range hit and run attacks.

That's what they have short range weapons like shuriken catapults, or the wielders using very short ranged weapons like laser lances.

Their job is to get up close and personal with enemy units that really weren't expecting it.
Yes, but they lack armor, and so when something goes wrong, they will take heavy casualties.

Meanwhile, if we build them as long range skirmishers, sure they will deal less damage, but they will also be less likely to get killed when things go wrong, because they will more easily be able to disengage
 
Yes, but they lack armor, and so when something goes wrong, they will take heavy casualties.

Meanwhile, if we build them as long range skirmishers, sure they will deal less damage, but they will also be less likely to get killed when things go wrong, because they will more easily be able to disengage

If you want long range skirmishers, build grav tanks with vehicle weapons.

That's their niche.

Jet bikes, as I say; are designed to get in close and then run away again before charging someone else or the same unit from an unexpected angle. They're basically cavalry.

The standard defences of a jet bike are their speed, manoeuvrability and the shock factor of them attacking from where someone doesn't expect it.
 
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If you want long range skirmishers, build grav tanks with vehicle weapons.

That's their niche.

Jet bikes, as I say; are designed to get in close and then run away again before charging someone else law or the same unit from an unexpected angle. They're basically cavalry.
But why is that better than attacking from long range. I don't understand the insistence that they have to get in close to do their job. Sure that is how they are set-up in canon, but we don't need to follow canon.

A Jet-bike is cheaper and faster than a grav-tank.
 
But why is that better than attacking from long range. I don't understand the insistence that they have to get in close to do their job. Sure that is how they are set-up in canon, but we don't need to follow canon.

A Jet-bike is cheaper and faster than a grav-tank.

Jet bikes in canon, at least; are slower than grav tanks; I believe. They're more manoeuvrable, but have slower top speeds.

Jet bikes' agility is why they're better at getting up close, but they pay for that. A long range skirmisher doesn't need that agility, the ability to turn on a dime after firing point blank and running away in another direction so much, but if you make jet bikes for that role they're still paying for that.

Jetblkes also can't mount vehicle weapons, which I think, are the optimal pick for long range combat.

If you want a doctrine of essentially doing long range kiting, build grav tanks. It's (part of) what they're for.

If you want a doctrine of close range hit and fade attacks, build jet bikes. It's what they're for.

Why try to squeeze them into a niche that m based on their canon use they're not ideal for.

And engaging from short range can be better because we seem to have weapons that trade off range and lethality, so shorter range heavy weapons are a lot more lethal than long range heavy weapons, so a jet bike driving right by an enemy and shooting them from point blank range will kill them a lot faster than shooting from long range, so the enemy will die faster and do less damage.

It's an attack is the best form of defence strategy.
 
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Alas, not this upcoming turn, I don't think.
I doubt we'll be rationalizing anything really. odds are decent between activating stewardship hall, following up on opportunities gained during the Aeldmoot, and a bit of relic sorting, we probably won't be taking one. we want to grab more low hanging seeker fruit anyways.
Yes, but they lack armor, and so when something goes wrong, they will take heavy casualties.

Meanwhile, if we build them as long range skirmishers, sure they will deal less damage, but they will also be less likely to get killed when things go wrong, because they will more easily be able to disengage
no they don't. if their serving in a fast attack role their going to engage in fast attack tactics which is not circle the enemy from far away and blast them with las cannons.

as I said earlier you can't design risk out of combat. If we don't have a viable fast attack designed to act in a fast attack role we open the army as a whole to more risk than our fast attack avoid if they were going to act the way your describing, which they aren't. we don't get to make decisions at that level. our fast attack are going to flank an enemy and their more likely to be unloading from a hundred or so meters away than a thousand whatever weapons we give them.

admittedly I'd favor something along the lines of a short range weapons than an outright melee weapon, but still, las cannons are just terrible.
But why is that better than attacking from long range. I don't understand the insistence that they have to get in close to do their job. Sure that is how they are set-up in canon, but we don't need to follow canon.

A Jet-bike is cheaper and faster than a grav-tank.
it's how cavalry fight. it's how the Aeldari commanding them are going to use them. regardless of how risky it is, which is less than you seem to think, it's a viable tactic which the fast attack in question is designed to exploit. it's why professional soldiers of Zahr-Tann have a detachment and squad specifically for this.
 
Ok, Difference opinions, going around in circles now

Anyway, here is a design for an artillery unit: 2 Fusion mortars for bombardment and a heavy needler for self-defense (plus fusion mortars can direct fire)
Artillery Tank
- Light Grav-Vehicle
- 2x Vehicle Fusion Mortars
- 1x Heavy Needler
- Trade 1x heavy and 4 system slots for vehicle slot
- 1x Holofield
- 2x Grav-shield

I'm not sure it needs Grav-shields, but I think mounting a 3rd vehicle weapon slot would be too much extra expense for capability, and it will help if the artillery gets caught out by something.
 
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989.M29 | Special Event: The Aeldmoot | Interludes: Aftermath
Aerellian Lightningblade contemplates the goblet in front of him, and the bottle standing next to it. His last bottle, from what was once his own small vineyard. He'd lain this bottle and its siblings down there, a set of two dozen, as the last thing he'd done before leaving for Biel-Tan. Halfheartedly, he cursed his younger self for not bringing the whole vineyard with him, because there would never be another vintage from his home-world. But no, he'd wanted to reinvent himself, shake off a wine-maker's indolence for a sword and discipline.

He remembers well the sight of over twenty millenia of careful cultivation aflame, the madmen laughing as they burned in the fires they themselves had set.

He'd gambled that he could bring all that was needed from shortsighted fools, when his rage burned hot in the aftermath. Who could stop him, when he'd risen so?

It seems it was he who was the fool, in the end.​

"A man plans," spake Arellian Lightningblade, "and the universe laughs."

A gesture banished the bottle back to his personal stasis-vault. He'd keep it, he decided, as a reminder of this moment.

He stood, and strode from the room. There were plans to be made, forces to be allocated, projects to begin, if he wished to salvage what he could of this disaster-

It was at this point that Aerellian Lightiningblade was hit in the face by a pie.
His eye twitched.
It was Yranberry.

He hated Yranberrys.

He breathed deeply, through his mouth so that the far-too-sweet berries would not invade his nose more than they already had.

First, he would clean himself, and his clothing, then he would see to his duties.
And possibly have the Yranberry grove ejected into space.

(He wouldn't. He wasn't that petty, when his face wasn't covered in pie-)



Eldrad contemplated the pile of shards on the cloth before him, a thin stylus idly sorting pieces as he contemplated. This 'Aeldmoot' had been more productive and informative than he might have imagined. Many plans would need to be… reassessed.
And whilst it had devolved rather quickly after the conclusion of the Enemy's little silencing attempt, resulting in no real consensus on what to actually do with the Forgelord's little information-bomb, a few suggestions had been… Intriguing.

"Lord of Misrule indeed," he mused aloud, setting the stylus down. "What an amusing notion. Perhaps even with precedent."

He set the stylus aside and a flicker of will activated the worktable's stasis-field as he stood. He knew himself enough to know he'd get nothing done until he'd gone through the Archives again, looking for the entry that he recalled only subconsciously.



Tyrellian Kulkessrin paced angrily across his solar, battling internally. As he passed his desk for the umpteeth time, he snatched the thin goblet from it, drained its contents in a single swallow, and threw the empty thing into the wall, the clatter and chime of it bouncing off the wall and onto the floor doing nothing to sooth the Asuryani leader.

The papers on his desk continued to sit innocently.

The proposal was practically everything he might have wanted, an encouragement of at least some modicum of unity, without the subsumption to a great empire that Iyanden had once proposed.

It was just...

"Why did it have to come from him‽" he asked the universe bitterly.​

He sat heavily, snatching the half-full bottle, and taking a long pull without bothering retrieve his goblet and pour.
Then, before he could change his mind, stamped his seal on the proposal, straightened the bundle, and sent it off.
Establishing some kind of regular communications between, at the very least, the more prominent craftworlds, was a good idea, after all.

Even if it was that damnable Vaulite proposing it!​



Kaeron Firecaller breathed in, and the candle before him dimmed.

He breathed out, and it brightened.

He was nothing save breath, and the flickering light.

Breath in.

Breath out.

Calm.

Discipline.

Control.


These a Pyromancer needed above all things.

Breath in.

Breath out.

Isha, he thought carefully, is a prisoner-

*WHUMPH*
LIGHT

He sighed heavily, and replaced the annihilated candle with another from his desk-drawer, for the eighth time today.

He had, it seemed, a very, very long way to go, before he regained control of his emotions.

A glance showed he had only two left in the drawer. "I," he stated to the empty room, "am going to need a great many more candles."



In place that was not a place, in a tower that was not a tower, made of scintillating and everchanging metal that was neither silver nor mercury, the Watcher of the past and future screamed in rage, his staff that was not a staff clattering against a wall that was not a wall as he threw it in his fury.

A lesser Lord, Etrigos the Farwatcher, suggested that things weren't all bad, as it wasn't like the Eye was actually broken.


One head of the Fateweaver fixed him with a glare, and both spoke thusly: "In three seconds, Etrigos the Farwatcher will become a Chaos Spawn."( "In two seconds, Etrigos the Farwatcher will become a Chaos Spawn")

The Farwatcher barely had time for a scream of denial that bubbled and split as its power was stripped, and it devolved into the lowliest of Daemons.
Kairos banished the new Spawn from the Impossible Fortress with a flick of a talon, then continued to pace and rant, carelessly flinging grand curses and forgotten battle-magics at any fool enough to disturb the Exalted.




Within the depths of the Warp there is an Impossible World, a mountain of bone so tall that it stretches the world on which it sits into a teardrop. It is comprised of one thing, and one thing alone, should one walk its knobbed slopes: Skulls. Billions upon billions upon billions of skulls, of every size and shape, somehow intact despite the force of others pressing down on them. As one approaches its apex the slope becomes slippery, for flowing blood oozes down those impossible slopes, in uncountable gallons and uncountable colors, impossibly fresh eternally.

At its apex is a great plateau, and at the center of the plateau is a throne, a crude construction of yet more skulls piled in the vague shape of a chair, mortared in blood.


The Skull Throne.



The seat of the Blood God, Khorne.

Who has, at present, fallen out of it from laughing too hard.




Within the depths of the Warp there is an Impossible World, that blooms with rot unending.

To so much as look upon it unprotected is to be afflicted with three times three poxes.

To set foot on its festering soil unwarded is to be cursed with twenty-seven curses of apathy and sloth.

To inhale even a single particle of its air is to invite three hundred and thirty-three plages within you.



At the heart of this pestilent Garden there is a Cauldron and a Cage.

And tending both is the Lord of All That Rots.

Nurgle.

God of Plague and Disease.

"Really, my dear, you should give up this stubborn resistance.
Why, your re…

...ject…
....tion….."


The Lord of Rot's air of faux-affability fades, his voice trailing off even as the form within the cage straightens, strength returning to her as her children learn of her survival, and pray to her once more.



Isha looks her captor in the eye, and states with the inevitability of nature itself:
"Never."


Stand By...

 
Organizing a Detachment
The principle unit for tactical deployment is the Detachment. each Detachment consists of a number of infantry squads, vehicles, and special units selected from those available to you. Each Detachment may have, with no competition, two Headquarters units, two Elites, three Troops and Fast Attack units, and one Special unit. Additionally, up to six further units may be taken; each of which may be one of two types: a Headquarters or Troops unit, a Troops or Fast Attack unit, a Fast Attack or Special unit, a Special or Heavy Support unit, a Heavy Support or Elite unit, or an Elite unit and Headquarters unit.
Question: the graphic indicates a detachment can take 2 heavy support by default, but the text doesn't mention that. Which is correct?
 
It is with both shame and hope that the Eldar conclude: We cannot rescue Isha yet.

Obviously not soon, but I wonder what an Isha who doesn't need to spend effort unraveling the curse can do.
 

"Why did it have to come from him‽" he asked the universe bitterly.​
He sat heavily, snatching the half-full bottle, and taking a long pull without bothering retrieve his goblet and pour.
Then, before he could change his mind, stamped his seal on the proposal, straightened the bundle, and sent it off.
Establishing some kind of regular communications between, at the very least, the more prominent craftworlds, was a good idea, after all.

Even if it was that damnable Vaulite proposing it!​
Hey, feelings mutal, why do we have to play nice with the people we just proved wrong?
 
I'm very pleased the the Lord of Misrule and a more standing council idea were proposed automatically.

Yep.

A reminder: we probably want to fight each curse separately, rather than, for example, trying to break Slaanesh's curse by freeing Isha.

If we try to do something that breaks two curses, after all, we're in conflict with two different Chaos Gods at once; but they're only going to help each other to protect their own investments.

I'm not sure they can. I'm not sure that the heart of Nurgle's domain can tolerate a host of Slaneeshi daemons to be present there are reinforcements.

Particularly if the Chaos Gods are distracted at the time.

And freeing Isha and keeping her free may well require promoting her to be the new Queen on the Diamond Throne to give her the strength and the broader narrative that is less overlapping with His to stay out of Nurgle's control.

I think this is an area where we need to go all in.

It's a long shot, but I wonder if we could arrange to be a co-belligerent with Khorne. He's no fan of Slaneesh, so might be quite happy with having his rival knocked down a peg. He's already lost his chance to claim his share of dominion over the Eldar, so the other gods losing their's is a win for him.
 
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