Point is i personally don't care to much about the warrior part, other than sending people over to meros, getting the rest of the convois going and some reinforcement for our pirate hunters.

The thing that gets me to scratch my head is how people complain about stripping our defense as if Meros won't complete this turn. Following by panic that we are in danger when nothing is attacking us this turn.

Yeah but apparently that's a big point of contention among the voters, may as well just send a token force since the current one is sufficient enough to look after them for the turn.

Throwing my hat into the chaotic and messy ring of equipment designs, I think having our basic troops be equipped in VGA, given a sunblaster caliver and a light rending blade would make for an effective and cheap frontline trooper.

Here's the math:

VGA is 6ap, Sublaster is also 6AP, light rending blades are 5EP a pop, that's 17EP per trooper.

5,000 ÷ 17 = 294 sunshine crayon eaters per VAP.

Divide that number again for each squad (assuming we go with a squad of 6):

294 ÷ 6 = 49 Grunt squads.

Since we don't know the actual production rates of the foundries and we won't know how much ithilmar or VGA we make per foundry, I'll assume they're half as effective as a BAP (240EP) as a pessimistic model.

So that would be...

240 ÷ 6 = 40 VGA / Sunblasters per turn under pessimistic model (6+1/2 squads worth of armour and guns per turn)

However.

For that price, we get a soldier capable of melting MEQs at range, holding their own in melee atleast somewhat proficiently without compromising on costs, in essence, a generalist line infantry.

Remember, this is just the pessimistic model, if it turns out our rate of production is much higher than 50% of a BAP (which it should since we picked both industrious and plentiful industry for a reason), then our EP woes will all be for nothing.

Only way to find out though, is to build all three armour foundries so we can track how much of each we get per foundry.

(Plus, I love plasma, apparently it also has some limited AOE thanks to thermal bloom too)
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Skjadir on Jul 14, 2024 at 10:59 AM, finished with 784 posts and 49 votes.

  • [X] Plan: The Aeldmoot
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Harlequins (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Ulthwe (2 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Saim-Hann (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Iyanden (4 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Lesser Craftworlds (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Exodites (1 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Weapon Forge (Needle Rifle) (2 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Armor Forge (Wraithweave Brigantine) (2 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Hall of Stewardship (2 AP)
    --[X][FORGE] Use the Forge (One Turn Clear)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Shrine of Khane (3 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Continue Ship Repair (1 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Bring in the second batch of Quilan's fleet (2 AP)
    -[X][SEER] Scry the Present (1 AP)
    --[X] "Where are the Orks that our Pirate-Hunters seek"
    --[X][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
    -[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Conversion Fields (2 AP/turn, 1 turn)
    --[X] Flaw: Slow On Attack
    [x] Plan: The Aeldmoot, industry edition v3
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Harlequins (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Ulthwe (2 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Saim-Hann (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Iyanden (4 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Lesser Craftworlds (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Exodites (1 AP)
    -[x][BONESINGER] Hall of Stewardship (2 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2 turns) (Requires a Steward action to activate)
    --[x][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns, 1st use)
    -[x][BONESINGER] Shrine of Khane (3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns)
    --[x][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns, 2nd use)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Continue Ship Repair (1 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Bring in the second batch of Quilan's fleet (2 AP)
    -[x][BONESINGER] Armor Foundry (Write-in type) (2 points each) x2
    --[x][BONESINGER] 1 VGA, 1 Ithilmar
    -[X][SEER] Scry the Present (1 AP)
    --[X] "Where are the Orks that our Pirate-Hunters seek"
    --[X][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
    -[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Conversion Fields (2 AP/turn, 1 turn)
    -- [x][SEEKER] Flaw: High Power Draw
    --[X] Flaw: Slow On Attack
    --[X] Advantage: Compact
    -- [x][SEEKER] Advantage: Rugged
    -[X][SEEKER] Grav-Gun Hybridization (2 AP Inital)
    -[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (4 AP)
    -[X][WARRIOR][MEROS] Recall for Repairs
    --[X] 12 Damaged Lance Cutters, 9 Damaged Lance Sloops, 10 Damaged Assault Ketches, 2 Damaged Caravels
    -[X][WARRIOR][MEROS] Send Reinforcements
    --[X] 20 War Ketches, The 3rd Heavy Fleet (ALLIED), 1st and 2nd Battle Hosts (ALLIED)
    -[X][WARRIOR][EVACUATION] Assign additional Escort Ships
    --[X] 1x Battle Caravel, 2x War Ketches, 1x Assault Ketch, 1x Nettle Destroyer each, when we run out of Nettles, send another War Ketch instead
    -[X][WARRIOR][VAL-TERRINE] Dispatch an Allied Force
    --[X] 2nd Line Fleet, 11th Scout Fleet, and 1st Line Host
    [X] Plan: Distributions
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Harlequins (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Ulthwe (2 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Saim-Hann (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Iyanden (4 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Lesser Craftworlds (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Exodites (1 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Replace Primary Power Distribution Control (2 AP)
    --[X][FORGE] Use the Forge (1st Use)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Weapon Forge (Starblaster Rifle) (2 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Armor Forge (Void Guard Warsuit) (2 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Hall of Stewardship (2 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Shrine of Khane (3 AP)
    --[X][FORGE] Use the Forge (2nd Use)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Continue Ship Repair (1 AP)
    -[X][SEER] Scry the Present (1 AP)
    --[X] "Where are the Orks that our Pirate-Hunters seek"
    --[X][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
    -[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Conversion Fields (2 AP/turn, 1 turn)
    -- [x][SEEKER] Flaw: High Power Draw
    --[X] Advantage: Compact
    -[X][SEEKER] Grav-Gun Hybridization (2 AP Inital)
    -[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (4 AP)
    -[X][WARRIOR][MEROS] Recall for Repairs
    --[X] 12 Damaged Lance Cutters, 9 Damaged Lance Sloops, 10 Damaged Assault Ketches, 2 Damaged Caravels
    -[X][WARRIOR][MEROS] Send Reinforcements
    --[X] 20 War Ketches, The 3rd Heavy Fleet (ALLIED), 1st and 2nd Battle Hosts (ALLIED)
    -[X][WARRIOR][EVACUATION] Assign additional Escort Ships
    --[X] 1x Battle Caravel, 2x War Ketches, 1x Assault Ketch, 1x Nettle Destroyer each, when we run out of Nettles, send another War Ketch instead
    -[X][WARRIOR][VAL-TERRINE] Dispatch an Allied Force
    --[X] 2nd Line Fleet, 11th Scout Fleet, and 1st Line Host
    [X] Plan Biel-Tan Can't Touch This Finale
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Harlequins (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Ulthwe (2 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Saim-Hann (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Iyanden (4 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Lesser Craftworlds (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Exodites (1 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Enhance Industry (3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns, each)
    --[X][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Hall of Stewardship (2 AP)
    -[x][BONESINGER] Shrine of Khane (3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Bring in the second batch of Quilan's fleet (2 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Continue Ship Repair (1 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Assist Arach-Qin with rebuilding their Shipyard (1 point each, max 6) (1 AP)
    -[X][SEER] Scry the Present (1 AP)
    --[X] "Where are the Orks that our Pirate-Hunters seek"
    --[X][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
    -[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Conversion Fields (2 AP/turn, 1 turn)
    -- [x][SEEKER] Flaw: High Power Draw
    --[X] Advantage: Compact
    -[X][SEEKER] Grav-Gun Hybridization (2 AP Inital)
    -[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (4 AP)
    -[X][WARRIOR][MEROS] Recall for Repairs
    --[X] 12 Damaged Lance Cutters, 9 Damaged Lance Sloops, 10 Damaged Assault Ketches, 2 Damaged Caravels
    -[X][WARRIOR][MEROS] Send Reinforcements
    --[X] 15 War Ketches, Zahr-Tann 4th Heavy Fleet (ALLIED), Zahr-Tann 6th Line Fleet (ALLIED), Zahr-Tann 1st Through 4th Battle Hosts (ALLIED) (4 hosts total)
    -[X][WARRIOR][EVACUATION] Assign additional Escort Ships
    --[X] 4× Battle Caravel, 12× War Ketches, 4× Assault Ketch
    -[X][WARRIOR][EVACUATION] Dispatch an Allied Force to Fea-eresh
    --[X] 3rd Heavy Fleet, 5th & 6th Battle Hosts
    -[X][WARRIOR][Allied] Dispatch Allied Scout Fleets to scout the Webway
    --[X] 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, and 11th Zahr-Tann Scout Fleets
    -[X][WARRIOR][Allied] Dispatch Allied Scout Fleets to scout for Freebootaz alongside Vau-Vulkesh naval forces.
    --[X] 13th & 15th Zahr-Tann Scout Fleets
    [x] The Aeldmoot, Allies, and Administration V2
    --[X] Flaw: Bulky
    --[X] Advantage: Low Cost
    --[X] Advantage: Pressure Resistance
    -[X][SEEKER] Grav-Gun Hybridization (2 AP Inital)
    -[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (4 AP)
    -[X][WARRIOR][MEROS] Recall for Repairs
    --[X] 12 Damaged Lance Cutters, 9 Damaged Lance Sloops, 10 Damaged Assault Ketches, 2 Damaged Caravels
    -[X][WARRIOR][MEROS] Send Reinforcements
    --[X] 20 War Ketches, The 3rd Heavy Fleet (ALLIED), 1st and 2nd Battle Hosts (ALLIED)
    -[X][WARRIOR][EVACUATION] Assign additional Escort Ships
    --[X] 1x Battle Caravel, 2x War Ketches, 1x Assault Ketch, 1x Nettle Destroyer each, when we run out of Nettles, send another War Ketch instead
    -[X][WARRIOR][VAL-TERRINE] Dispatch an Allied Force
    --[X] 2nd Line Fleet, 11th Scout Fleet, and 1st Line Host
    [X] Plan To Moot
    -[X] [Steward] The Harlequins (1 point)
    -[X] [Steward] Ulthwe (2 points)
    -[X] [Steward] Saim-Hann (1 point)
    -[X] [Steward] Iyanden (4 points)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Lesser Craftworlds (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Exodites (1 AP)
    -[X] [Steward] Your Allies (Free)
    -[X] [Bonesinger] Armor Foundry (Wraithweave Brigantine) (2 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Hall of Stewardship (2 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Shrine of Khane (3 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Continue Ship Repair (1 AP)
    -[X] [Bonesinger] Refit an Escort (2 AP)
    --[X] 3 Nettle class and 3 War Ketch prioritising damaged ships
    -[X] [Bonesinger] Develop Basic Grenades (1 AP)
    -[X] [Bonesinger] Develop Melta Weapons (1AP)
    -[X] Forge of Vaul: Aid a Construction/Repair project (Hall of Stewardship)
    -[X] Forge of Vaul: Produce Wargear (5,000 EP)
    -[X][SEER] Scry the Present (1 AP)
    --[X] "Where are the Orks that our Pirate-Hunters seek"
    -[X] [Seer] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
    -[X] [Seeker] Reverse-engineer Conversion Fields (2 AP)
    --[X] Flaw: Slow On Attack
    --[X] Advantage: Compact
    -[X] [Seeker] Grav-Gun Hybridization (2 AP)
    -[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (4 AP)
    -[X] [Warrior] Meros: Recall For Repairs
    --[X] All damaged ships
    -[X] [Warrior] Meros: Send Reinforcements
    --[X] 15 War Ketch
    -[X][WARRIOR][VAL-TERRINE] Dispatch an Allied Force
    --[X] 3rd Heavy Fleet, 2nd Line Fleet, 3rd, 5th and 7th Scout Fleets, 1st-5th Line hosts, 1st and 2nd Battle Hosts and 1st-3rd Armored Assault Hosts to aid Meros
    --[X] 9th and 11th Scout Fleets to aid the evacuation of Fea-Eresh
    --[X] 13th and 15th Scout Fleets to aid in Freeboota hunting
    [X] Plan Or Not To Moot
    -[X] [Steward] Design a Light Cruiser (6 AP)
    -[X] [Steward] River and Lake, Pond and Pool—All may Feed the World (4 AP)
    -[X] [Bonesinger] Armor Foundry (Wraithweave Brigantine) (2 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Hall of Stewardship (2 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Shrine of Khane (3 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Continue Ship Repair (1 AP)
    -[X] [Bonesinger] Refit an Escort (2 AP)
    --[X] 3 Nettle class and 3 War Ketch prioritising damaged ships
    -[X] [Bonesinger] Develop Basic Grenades (1 AP)
    -[X] [Bonesinger] Develop Melta Weapons (1AP)
    -[X] Forge of Vaul: Aid a Construction/Repair project (Hall of Stewardship)
    -[X] Forge of Vaul: Produce Wargear (5,000 EP)
    -[X][SEER] Scry the Present (1 AP)
    --[X] "Where are the Orks that our Pirate-Hunters seek"
    -[X] [Seer] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
    -[X] [Seeker] Reverse-engineer Conversion Fields (2 AP)
    --[X] Flaw: Slow On Attack
    --[X] Advantage: Compact
    -[X] [Seeker] Grav-Gun Hybridization (2 AP)
    -[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (4 AP)
    -[X] [Warrior] Meros: Recall For Repairs
    --[X] All damaged ships
    -[X] [Warrior] Meros: Send Reinforcements
    --[X] 15 War Ketch
    -[X][WARRIOR][VAL-TERRINE] Dispatch an Allied Force
    --[X] 3rd Heavy Fleet, 2nd Line Fleet, 3rd, 5th and 7th Scout Fleets, 1st-5th Line hosts, 1st and 2nd Battle Hosts and 1st-3rd Armored Assault Hosts to aid Meros
    --[X] 9th and 11th Scout Fleets to aid the evacuation of Fea-Eresh
    --[X] 13th and 15th Scout Fleets to aid in Freeboota hunting
    [X] Plan: The Aeldmoot
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Harlequins (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Ulthwe (2 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Saim-Hann (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Iyanden (4 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Lesser Craftworlds (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Exodites (1 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Weapon Forge (Needle Rifle) (2 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Armor Forge (Wraithweave Brigantine) (2 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Hall of Stewardship (2 AP)
    --[X][FORGE] Use the Forge (One Turn Clear)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Shrine of Khane (3 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Continue Ship Repair (1 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Bring in the second batch of Quilan's fleet (2 AP)
    -[X][SEER] Scry the Present (1 AP)
    --[X] "Where are the Orks that our Pirate-Hunters seek"
    --[X][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
    -[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Conversion Fields (2 AP/turn, 1 turn)
    --[X] Flaw: Poor Refraction
    --[X] Flaw: Slow On Attack
    --[X] Flaw: Low Threshold
    --[X] Advantage: Low Cost
    --[X] Advantage: Fast Recycle
    --[X] Advantage: Pressure Resistance
    -[X][SEEKER] Grav-Gun Hybridization (2 AP Inital)
    -[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (4 AP)
    -[X][WARRIOR][MEROS] Recall for Repairs
    --[X] 12 Damaged Lance Cutters, 9 Damaged Lance Sloops, 10 Damaged Assault Ketches, 2 Damaged Caravels
    -[X][WARRIOR][MEROS] Send Reinforcements
    --[X] 20 War Ketches, The 3rd Heavy Fleet (ALLIED), 1st and 2nd Battle Hosts (ALLIED)
    -[X][WARRIOR][EVACUATION] Assign additional Escort Ships
    --[X] 1x Battle Caravel, 2x War Ketches, 1x Assault Ketch, 1x Nettle Destroyer each, when we run out of Nettles, send another War Ketch instead
    -[X][WARRIOR][VAL-TERRINE] Dispatch an Allied Force
    --[X] 2nd Line Fleet, 11th Scout Fleet, and 1st Line Host
    [x] The Aeldmoot, Allies, and Administration V2
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Harlequins (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Ulthwe (2 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Saim-Hann (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Iyanden (4 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Lesser Craftworlds (1 AP)
    -[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Exodites (1 AP)
    -[x][BONESINGER] Hall of Stewardship (2 AP initial, 1 point continuous | 2 turns)
    --[X][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns)
    -[x][BONESINGER] Shrine of Khaine (3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Continue Ship Repair (1 AP)
    -[X][BONESINGER] Bring in the second batch of Quilan's fleet (2 AP)
    -[x][BONESINGER] Assist Arach-Qin with rebuilding their Shipyard (4 AP)
    -[X][SEER] Scry the Present (1 AP)
    --[X] "Where are the Orks that our Pirate-Hunters seek"
    --[X][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
    -[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Conversion Fields (2 AP/turn, 1 turn)
    --[X] Flaw: Slow On Attack
    --[X] Flaw: Low Threshold
    --[X] Advantage: Low Cost
    --[X] Advantage: Pressure Resistance
    -[X][SEEKER] Grav-Gun Hybridization (2 AP Inital)
    -[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (4 AP)
    -[X][WARRIOR][MEROS] Recall for Repairs
    --[X] 12 Damaged Lance Cutters, 9 Damaged Lance Sloops, 10 Damaged Assault Ketches, 2 Damaged Caravels
    -[X][WARRIOR][MEROS] Send Reinforcements
    --[X] 20 War Ketches, The 3rd Heavy Fleet (ALLIED), 1st and 2nd Battle Hosts (ALLIED)
    -[X][WARRIOR][EVACUATION] Assign additional Escort Ships
    --[X] 1x Battle Caravel, 2x War Ketches, 1x Assault Ketch, 1x Nettle Destroyer each, when we run out of Nettles, send another War Ketch instead
    -[X][WARRIOR][VAL-TERRINE] Dispatch an Allied Force
    --[x] Send three allied Scout Fleets to help search for the Freebootaz, lead by a Line Fleet to stiffen them in case they bump into anything nasty.
    --[x] Send four allied Scout Fleets to scout the Webway, looking for routes to the True Stars.


Current vote if anyone is interested.
Still I think the closest vote we had yet when it came to the main turn vote. (and yes i hope i can get some people from the main vote to switch over)
 
50-100 a turn puts the rate of production as worse than doing Enhance Industry and assigning the resulting BAP to wargear production.

They're almost certainly 240-480 for the infantry wargear production. Still much slower for immediate needs than BAP, taking two to four turns to pay off.

It's described as a 'steady trickle'. As a result, I expect it to be a trickle. It's also 'determined by your overall industry', so I could easily see it as producing something like 0.02 BAP worth of gear for every BAP we have, so that it would currently produce 0.3 BAP worth of equipment, or some other ratio.

and Enhance Industry is (3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns, each). That's a much longer lead time than a forge to get started, and adding BAP would also improve any foundries we have.

edit: Here's the quote:

Production Infrastructure is very simple: it costs a bunch of AP and time to set up, and then it makes some number of weapons, vehicles or armor every turn for the rest of forever, unless you deliberately turn it off or spend some time fitting it to make something else. This is ultamately more action efficient in the long run, but it is significantly slower than burning Actions on making stuff. Of course long term you will settle on "standard issue" kit, and have production infrastructure making enough of them you can afford to just raise Warhosts all in one go, but you aren't there yet.

Edit: basically, think about it like this: Spending AP to make Wargear is buying it from the cash shop: it's great if you are in a crisis and need a bunch of things RIGHT THE HECC NOW. Building production infrastructure is like making the building that gives you one or two every half hour: slow, but eventually you will have so much it doesn't matter, and hey, that means if you have 30 of them you get one per minute, and so on.

'Significantly slower'. Being between a tenth and a fifth as fast feels consistent with that. Action efficient in the 'long run'. Five to ten turns sounds like a fair definition of long run.
 
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I suppose my confusion is that that seems to be the same niche that the gravsheer weaponry has, and people have previously discussed making those into missiles and torpedos, too.
I think of Grav Sheer weapons as in the same niche as Flamers, actually. Wide AOE attack, but armor piercing.

Short range crowd control, with an option for longer range sniping.
 
Throwing my hat into the chaotic and messy ring of equipment designs, I think having our basic troops be equipped in VGA, given a sunblaster caliver and a light rending blade would make for an effective and cheap frontline trooper.
That's a basic trooper design I support, but I'm not sure we want to make all of our line troops that. Even the light Rending Blade is pretty expensive for troops that we don't actually want getting in melee at all, so I think a version that just uses flamer pistols (or maybe plasma flamer pistols, if we can get those) would be a more general infantry.
 
That's a basic trooper design I support, but I'm not sure we want to make all of our line troops that. Even the light Rending Blade is pretty expensive for troops that we don't actually want getting in melee at all, so I think a version that just uses flamer pistols (or maybe plasma flamer pistols, if we can get those) would be a more general infantry.
Even just a sunpistol could be good enough.
 
Hmm.

I think you've got a point; that definitely makes Meltas more attractive to develop, especially if we also get the grenade immediately.
Orks might be crazy enough to try runing through fire... But with a grav sheer gun, they won't be running. Off with their legs!

Edit: You know what would be really cool? Integrating a grav sheer projector into a grav blade.
 
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For the people that currently vote Aeldmoot.

Can I ask what you prefer about a conversion field that is apparently planned to be used only by a few people in the infantry, instead of a much broader deployment across our forces that includes part of our infantry, most of our vehicles and ships ?
 
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Coming back to the topic of redesigns, especially since we're likely to have new demands on our Steward AP soon...

Are getting our Elite units, Fast Attack units, or Light Cruiser refits more critical? Because our light cruiser hull at the moment should have an actual role in combat if we can give it one, and if we develop Melta Weapons and Void Torpedoes in the same turn, I think we can make it a decent torpedo cruiser design. Would avoid too much overlap with our War Ketches while still avoiding the use of very expensive naval exotics.
 
For the people that currently vote Aeldmoot.

Can I ask what you prefer about a conversion field that is apparently planned to be used only by a few people in the infantry, instead of a much broader deployment across our forces that includes part of our infantry, most of our vehicles and ships ?

Deceptive language, Infantry by far is the bulk of our numbers, and even if it's only assigned to squad leaders as opposed to mass produced depending on the price, it's still in absolute terms going to be the majority until we are Very late in the story and have an absolute asston of modern industry going for us.
 
Coming back to the topic of redesigns, especially since we're likely to have new demands on our Steward AP soon...

Are getting our Elite units, Fast Attack units, or Light Cruiser refits more critical? Because our light cruiser hull at the moment should have an actual role in combat if we can give it one, and if we develop Melta Weapons and Void Torpedoes in the same turn, I think we can make it a decent torpedo cruiser design. Would avoid too much overlap with our War Ketches while still avoiding the use of very expensive naval exotics.

Get the ship refits done first.
Ground combat for us is almost always after the navy fight and for the most part likely will be when we don't want to glass the place or loot it.

So we do have some time to gather stuff for the ground forces and do a full redesign that we are happy with.
 
Shrieker Cannons fire projectiles impregnated with virulent genetic toxins known as Margrech, which turn the luckless victim into a walking bomb.

The special Shrieker ammunition is hollow and contains a genetically tailored enzyme-based serum.

The serum works in a very complex and unpleasant manner, combining with the victim's own genetic material, twisting and distorting tissues, and causing organs to to malfunction in a spectacular fashion.

Eventually the victim is driven into a violent delirium as the serum reaches his brain and he loses control of his body. Afterwards the pace of the constantly replicating genetic serum reaches a fever pitch as the blood boils, organs rupture and flesh sears from within, before the victim explodes with sickening violence.
Harlequin of the north star troupe, armed with poisoned war gloves:

Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru

 
Coming back to the topic of redesigns, especially since we're likely to have new demands on our Steward AP soon...

Are getting our Elite units, Fast Attack units, or Light Cruiser refits more critical? Because our light cruiser hull at the moment should have an actual role in combat if we can give it one, and if we develop Melta Weapons and Void Torpedoes in the same turn, I think we can make it a decent torpedo cruiser design. Would avoid too much overlap with our War Ketches while still avoiding the use of very expensive naval exotics.

Light Cruiser, by far. I don't think we're going to have much if any use for our own army in the next few turns, but we're likely to have a plenty for our navy to do.

Deceptive language, Infantry by far is the bulk of our numbers, and even if it's only assigned to squad leaders as opposed to mass produced depending on the price, it's still in absolute terms going to be the majority until we are Very late in the story and have an absolute asston of modern industry going for us.

The bulk of our numbers, but very likely not the bulk of our use case or the value we could have from conversion fields.

I personally don't see infantry being a very important arm of our forces given we have allies who can do that better than us.
 
Light Cruiser, by far. I don' t think we're going to have much if any use for our army in the next few turns, but we're likely to have a plenty for our navy to do.



The bulk of our numbers, but very likely not the bulk of our use case or the value we could have from conversion fields.

I personally don't see infantry being a very important arm of our forces given we have allies who can do that better than us.

And our vehicles have other options, why do we need something that Does The Same Thing for them? 12 EP is a fortune for the PBI, but is just a luxury on a vehicle.
 
Deceptive language, Infantry by far is the bulk of our numbers, and even if it's only assigned to squad leaders as opposed to mass produced depending on the price, it's still in absolute terms going to be the majority until we are Very late in the story and have an absolute asston of modern industry going for us.

... yeah no.

If you look into the squad design, we do not want squad leader being different from the rest of the squad because that just adds more logistic problems for at best marginal gains. The only time should that happens if they are important for some reason (psykers or hero unit).


The place where they will be used by far is one the vehicles to add to the defense onion (still need compressed for that because slot useage), or on vehicles we can't fit a grav shield + holo-field because the grav-shield is two slots.
This then repeats on our ships.
 
... yeah no.

If you look into the squad design we do not want squad leader being different from the rest of the squad because that adds more logistic problems. The only time that happens if they are important for some reason (psykers or hero unit).


The place where they will be used by far is one the vehicles to add to the defense onion (still need compressed for that because slot useage), or on vehicles we can't fit a grav shield + holo-field because the grav-shield is two slots.
This then repeats on our ships.

Grav-Shields are by far our best shielding though! The amount of things that can pierce it can be counted on one hand without massive saturation fire, why do we need another layer that does the Same Thing but cheaper and with a high failure rate?
 
And our vehicles have other options, why do we need something that Does The Same Thing for them? 12 EP is a fortune for the PBI, but is just a luxury on a vehicle.

Because I don't think we should have PBI at all. We should have special forces, super-heavy assault troops for boarding ships or high intensity urban combat, artillery, and tanks. Let our allies fill that roll to the limited degree it's needed.

Grav-Shields are by far our best shielding though! The amount of things that can pierce it can be counted on one hand without massive saturation fire, why do we need another layer that does the Same Thing but cheaper and with a high failure rate?

Because the right conversion field design fills the one small gap left in the protection offered by grav and holofields, unless I misunderstand something.
 
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Are getting our Elite units, Fast Attack units, or Light Cruiser refits more critical?
Light Cruiser probably. We have infantry redesign, not the best but passable and they have some transport vehicles even if their mobility options could be better. While the fleet really needs some heavier ships. What we have would either fold against a decent enemy fleet or suffer unneeded losses without redesign.
Grav-Shields are by far our best shielding though! The amount of things that can pierce it can be counted on one hand without massive saturation fire, why do we need another layer that does the Same Thing but cheaper and with a high failure rate?
Won't lasers go through them without even noticing? Since you know the kind of gravity forces that will bend light gonna sheer any material around guy/vehicle/ship? Though it would be okay for a ship.
 
Grav-Shields are by far our best shielding though! The amount of things that can pierce it can be counted on one hand without massive saturation fire, why do we need another layer that does the Same Thing but cheaper and with a high failure rate?

Grav shields and conversion fields are not the same thing.
And what can break grav shields lots of fire from lots of small guns, because they have problems with number of shots.

They are synergistic if you didn't notice, and the matter of system slots on vehicles and ships is massive.
We just flat out can fit grav-shields on some of them due to the limited amount.

Edit.
And high failure chance considering my design explicitly takes rugged so they always come back online after a pause the ones i go for don't have that problem.
 
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Because I don't think we should have PBI at all. We should have special forces, super-heavy assault troops for boarding, artillery, and tanks. Let our allies fill that roll to the limited degree it's needed.

Literally nobody in the galaxy does that. And I don't care if you personally think it's Optimal to just never use Infantry ever. Even the Space Marines, elite among elites, are a primary Infantry force. And they're explicitly ass at holding ground as opposed to Always Being On The Attack.

We don't even know what we don't know, but if the most experienced warfighting group in the setting that we've seen the list of feels that having lots of Infantry is required. There's probably a good reason for it, and it's probably not "Because they're idiots who don't know how to fight."

We are, canonically, the Idiots Who Don't Know How To Fight.
 
Light Cruiser probably. We have infantry redesign, not the best but passable and they have some transport vehicles even if their mobility options could be better. While the fleet really needs some heavier ships. What we have would either fold against a decent enemy fleet or suffer unneeded losses without redesign.

Won't lasers go through them without even noticing? Since you know the kind of gravity forces that will bend light gonna sheer any material around guy/vehicle/ship? Though it would be okay for a ship.

Uh.

It Explicitly says that "Grav-Shields are effective against all but the most rarified forms of attack"

"Useless against the most common weapon type in the galaxy" would make it terrible, and also outright go against what the rep was (Where Grav-Shields have as a sole weakness that they're not great at deflecting taking dozens of attacks in the blink of an eye)

EDIT: Here's the entry, since people seem to have convinced themselves that Grav-Shields are shit.

Grav-shields use gravitational lensing to bend beams and slap projectiles away from whatever they are protecting. While there are few weapons they cannot effect, a grav-shield can only handle so many discrete attacks in a set period before it cannot intercept all incoming attacks.



What does PBI stand for?


Poor Bloody Infantry, the ones who end up having to be the anvil.
 
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Grav-Shields are by far our best shielding though! The amount of things that can pierce it can be counted on one hand without massive saturation fire, why do we need another layer that does the Same Thing but cheaper and with a high failure rate?
Compact one system slot sized shield would be insanely good for fast attacks chassis and escorts, and depending on synergy conversion + grav can be better than 2 gravs or might be a lot worse.
 
If you look into the squad design, we do not want squad leader being different from the rest of the squad because that just adds more logistic problems for at best marginal gains.
This is mostly for armor, not extra equipment. We get 3x weapon or equipment changes for every armor change, we're far less limited by those. Especially since we can't split those three changes apart; they all need to be in the one detachment.
 
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