A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)
Its funny, If Monofiliment was in seeker die, and not the Much more bottlenecked Bonesinger Dice, I would probably be pushing for it a lot harder, But as is, bonesinger die are so Backed up that aside from 1AP for grenades, I'm not even sure what of this repairs AREN'T desperate to the point of Investing being a far off dream.
- Location
- Somewhere Beyond the Sea
Oh my god is this what I think it is? Is this the funny black-hole gun?
I want it.
These seem pretty decent, but that "Slightly fragile" flavour text is making me a bit iffy on grabbing this.
A gravity chainsword, I want it, I need it, gimme
The vibration weapons kind of remind me of the principles behind Volkite weapons, and iirc they're pretty nasty against MEQ (in the lore)
Also, I might have forgot, but do void shields counter grav-weaponry? If not, then we should definitely abuse that for dealing with voidships.
Yep, Sounds about like I guessed. Best Armour pen in the Galaxy, but the Post Pen damage Might end up lacking depending on how well you placed your shot and what your shooting.
In that case, Its ends up being a very match-up dependent weapon, and heavily reliant on how well you can make your shots counts.
Shot through the cockpit of an emperor class titan, Or the reactor casing of a Battleship? Great! Shot through the Head of a Great unclean one? I think you might have worked out one of the Sore vertebrae that been bugging him for the last few thousands years.
The list of things that it Isn't great against is much much shorter then the list of things it is good agaist, with the list getting smaller every caliber up, But there are some matchups all the same
Anyway, it is way to fucking late, I have a hell of a flu and the only reason I'm still awake is because of this evil evil Gm. night
Oh, i understand that Part. It is more like: Comparing our Detachments and Hosts, looking at our Cache of War Gear and deciding what should be done where, at what Amounts and then investing the necessary amount of AP. That sounds like it needs another application of the Dread Invocation to the Dark God of Order Excel.
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
Super sniper anti-void ship gun…and being able to cut anything apart? Stealth ramming ships that are armored to heck and back and laugh at anything that's not 2 sizes larger or faster or can kill it quick enough?
Add in potential to make the best armor ever after using super gravity because fuck you warp buggery and reality bullshit mixing?
Sign me up Scotty.
Add in potential to make the best armor ever after using super gravity because fuck you warp buggery and reality bullshit mixing?
Sign me up Scotty.
- Location
- Utrecht
It probably wouldn't even occur to Orks to dodge such a ship.
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
Okay, the costing here is a little tricky, but I think this breaks things down properly.
[ ] All The Grav Things
-[ ] Gravity Blades [Melee]
-[ ] Graviton Thruster Serpentia [Sidearm]/Caliver [Longarm] /Lance [Vehicle, Superheavy, Naval, Heavy Naval]
-[ ] Graviton Sheer Rifle [Heavy]/Cannon [Vehicle]/Bombard [Superheavy, Naval]
-[ ] Rending Blades [Melee] [1 AP]
-[ ] Ripper Cannon [Heavy, Vehicle, Superheavy, Naval] [2 AP]
-[ ] Tremor Pistol [Sidearm]/Rifle [Longarm]/Cannon [Heavy, Vehicle, Superheavy, Naval] [2 AP]
-[ ] Vibration Serpentia [Sidearm]/Caliver [Longarm]/Culverin [Heavy, Vehicle]/Bombard [Superheavy, Naval]
-[ ] Sweeper Cannon[Heavy, Vehicle]/Bombard[Superheavy] [1 AP]
-[ ] Implosion Hammers [Melee] [2 AP]
-[ ] Imploder Pistol [Sidearm]/Rifle [Longarm]/Cannon [Heavy, Vehicle, Superheavy, Naval, Heavy Naval]
-[ ] Point Singularity Projector Rifle [Heavy]/Cannon [Vehicle]/Bombard [Superheavy, Naval]
-[ ] Gravetic Amplifier Serpentia [Sidearm]/Caliver [Longarm]/Culverin [Heavy, Vehicle]/Bombard [Superheavy, Naval, Heavy Naval]
In other words, if we pick the most expensive stuff as our free selects and additional selects, we can buy absolutely everything in the grav weapons listings for 1+2+2+1+2=8 AP.
Which is enough that we can then continue conversion field research and pick one of the plasmas, though only one.
If we do the opposite and go all-in on plasma instead of grav, it has much less complex costing so we get something like this:
[ ] All The Plasmas
-[ ] Sunblasters/Suncannons [1 AP]
-[ ] Fusion Lances [3 AP]
-[ ] Fusion Mortars/Bombards [3 AP]
Which is 7 AP. If we continue conversion field research (and I believe we want to) then we're at 9 AP on that, reducing us to just 3 AP for grav techs. But perhaps 3 AP is enough? With only 8 AP of stuff to buy after the free choices, we can probably afford to drop some of the options... or we could just leave it all until next turn to do the research properly.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
On a side note, what does this mean?
Does it mean that building a Fateforge consumes the production of an existing fateforge until it's completed?
Or does it mean that building a new one just doesn't do anything?
grimely
Twink Death Sufferer
The former, the staff of the new one have to be trained up which reduces the output of an existing one.
- Location
- Utrecht
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Anyway, if I understand the plan correctly, we're planning to refit the following divisions.
1* Grandwarcasting : composed of :
4 battlecasting support
2 Hearthguard skirmish
2 Militia Line
2 Hearthguard skirmish
2 Militia Line
3* Heavy Militia
1 Hearthguard Line
1 Militia Line
1 Militia Assault
1 Militia Heavy
3 militia light
1 battlecasting
1 Militia Line
1 Militia Assault
1 Militia Heavy
3 militia light
1 battlecasting
3*Militia
1*Militia Heavy
1*Militia assault
2*militia line
3*Militia light support
1*Hearthguard light support
1*Militia assault
2*militia line
3*Militia light support
1*Hearthguard light support
For a total of
7*battlecasting
3*hearthguardline
2*Hearthguard skirmish
3*hearthguard light support
11*militia line
6*militia assault
6*militia heavy
9*militia light support
That's 47 divisions to refit.
So, that'll consume all our Steward AP.
Shame, I would have liked to explore the vaults.
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- Location
- his hidden lair
So a few things to note: using Vaul AP is substantially more efficient in terms of raw BAP for wargear production than it is reducing build times (that usually only saves 1d3 BAP- the big return is the time not the AP), considering we aren't strapped for time so much as we are BAP and that the scenario where we are strapped for time (refitting the military) spending the VAP on wargear is probably the best single use of it right now. I strongly recommend at least one VAP on wargear because it's just mathematically the most efficient way it can substitute for BAP outside of really long term estimates. If we really want to get more modern ships of ours in the water ASAP there's an argument for spending some there, but objectively speaking the Forge of Vaul is an insane advantage in wargear production and a minor acceleration in build times. 1 VAP is about 10.4 BAP of wargear- we have the greatest ability to print out war material on short notice of probably any Craftworld in existence.
As for the Seeker technology- I strongly recommend Rending Blades, given chainswords are substantially cheaper than power swords and power weaponry is kinda wasted on the majority of Orks and Eldar where infantry doesn't tend to be heavily armored. Gravitic hammers seem perfect for a terminator assault weapon role but I think we have to acknowledge we need an intermediary melee weapon between power/gravity hammers and basic bitch CCW weapons. Especially given the gravity hammers are maintenance heavy weapons that favor short high intensity combat. Considering we don't even have chainswords yet, Rending Blades are probably our best option for a quality melee weapon that doesn't cost more than every other piece of kit a soldier might be carrying Ithilmar aside.
The other two really big stand out weapons are Sweeper cannons and Fusion Mortars. Area of effect weaponry for our vehicles is probably the single greatest solution to both Orks and hostile Eldar. Orks are very swarmy and want to get to grips with us in melee where they can brawl us with their insane numerical advantage, and Eldar are both squishy and very hard to hit. Sweeper cannons let us both break up Orkish charges and shatter their momentum to let us bring our firepower superiority to bear and let us disrupt the agility and mobility of hostile Eldar and letting their relative fragility become a lethal weakpoint.
As for the Seeker technology- I strongly recommend Rending Blades, given chainswords are substantially cheaper than power swords and power weaponry is kinda wasted on the majority of Orks and Eldar where infantry doesn't tend to be heavily armored. Gravitic hammers seem perfect for a terminator assault weapon role but I think we have to acknowledge we need an intermediary melee weapon between power/gravity hammers and basic bitch CCW weapons. Especially given the gravity hammers are maintenance heavy weapons that favor short high intensity combat. Considering we don't even have chainswords yet, Rending Blades are probably our best option for a quality melee weapon that doesn't cost more than every other piece of kit a soldier might be carrying Ithilmar aside.
The other two really big stand out weapons are Sweeper cannons and Fusion Mortars. Area of effect weaponry for our vehicles is probably the single greatest solution to both Orks and hostile Eldar. Orks are very swarmy and want to get to grips with us in melee where they can brawl us with their insane numerical advantage, and Eldar are both squishy and very hard to hit. Sweeper cannons let us both break up Orkish charges and shatter their momentum to let us bring our firepower superiority to bear and let us disrupt the agility and mobility of hostile Eldar and letting their relative fragility become a lethal weakpoint.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Current suggestions for Vault investment is putting them on the engine, where a single roll could save 8BAP, if the system works as I think it does. So that's a pretty big gain.
On top of that, if we manage to fix the engines, we can go fetch our greenery, which would free up a whatever ships we assign to escort duty.
Speaking of Grav-meleeing ships, didn't the high elves in Warhammer fantasy have artifact Dragonships whose plow was just set up to cut through things?
Would be neat to bring some kind of version of that to the 40k side of things.
Would be neat to bring some kind of version of that to the 40k side of things.
So a second Chaos god is paying attention to our souls at least nothing bad happened and we discovered that
I immediately thought of the shitty little fighters Meros made, imagine the look on someone's face when they get rammed by an upjumped escape pod and it cores their ship.
- Location
- his hidden lair
I really doubt we're going to get all three actions to fix the engines done before Biel-Tan shows up, especially because we still need to wait a turn and spend a stewardship action even once it's fully repaired (and afterwards time isn't nearly so critical) and even then, assuming we need to have some kind of decently geared up army for Biel-Tan and the Orks (who are implied to be fielding super heavy vehicles and a threat we should probably address even if we get our fellow Craftworlds out of the line of fire)- a VAP on wargear is still 10.4 BAP's worth.
It's a great savings if we weren't in a scenario where rapid rearmament was a priority, and it's pretty clever if it does work like that... but on average it's only ~1.5 times 3 BAP even in the optimistic scenario (let's just round up and say 6 AP to be generous), and the maximum savings still means 2+ turns until we're mobile (22 AP to fully fix the engines, discount it by 9 with a 3 on 1d3, 13 AP still left- finish Power Distribution this turn and then just finish the rest next turn alongside Power Distribution's Steward Action). That's also pretty limiting for every other use of BAP too, and a second VAP doesn't really make it go any faster, to say nothing of the frustration if we don't roll a 3.
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We definitely need:
- aoe weapon, grav or plasma or both
- middle ground option melee weapon, better than ccw but not 20 ep a pop, so rending blade
- close-range anti-armor, melta like, infantry + vehicle scale
- non exotic long range infantry scale anti-armor
- non-exotic better than lance ship weapons
The rest is not that important when we have starblasters, fatecasters. We've got ultimate elite weapons.
- aoe weapon, grav or plasma or both
- middle ground option melee weapon, better than ccw but not 20 ep a pop, so rending blade
- close-range anti-armor, melta like, infantry + vehicle scale
- non exotic long range infantry scale anti-armor
- non-exotic better than lance ship weapons
The rest is not that important when we have starblasters, fatecasters. We've got ultimate elite weapons.
- Location
- Somewhere Beyond the Sea
If I'm reading the flavour text correctly, the Singularity weapons are area of effect weaponry (capable of devastating a squad of infantry)
Also, off topic but we are now at 980.M29, Biel-Tan is going to attack us by next turn and if we want to fight them off, we need to brace for impact ASAP.
To that end, I recommend we get started on repairing/refitting some of our damaged escorts and capitals, plus throwing our VAP into cranking out more equipment (maybe this turn we focus on vehicles like Starhammers and Mirages?)
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
Important stuff is happening on the map infomark. You all may recall that last turn there was some movement of the webway (which I summarized here). This turn we have both some additional exploration and some major changes.
Movement of craftworlds:
Movement of craftworlds:
- Arach-Qin has moved itself significantly eastward, past Black Toof. This brings them somewhat, but not drastically, closer to us- but also farther away from both Meros and the local ork empires, at least when using the webway to measure distance.
- The webway south of Meros is doing some crazy stuff. Where previously it was possible to go from Geargitz 'Ere to Dat Purple Won directly, now that branch leads directly through the human world of K'Phra- previously the terminus of its own branch. The Black Toof connection was severed in the north but one of its southern branches was redirected to lead to the trunk south of Geargitz 'Ere, so it's still possible to travel between those worlds- but no longer possible to reach the main ork mass via the southern route without passing through Geargitz 'Ere first. Essentially we once could have gotten to Dat Purple Won by going just through Black Toof, but now would have to go Black Toof->Geargitz 'Ere->K'Phra->Dat Purple Won. This is a major shift in geography of the area. If you have not looked at the three extant maps, please do so.
- Zogdakka used to be on its own branch off the nearby trunk line, with Arach-Qin sitting at the branch point which led off to it. Its branch has now shifted so that it's impossible to reach Zogdakka without going through Geargitz 'Ere.
- The webway branch Zahr-Tann sits on has continued growing southward but distinctly avoided meshing into the major branch it would have been expected to encounter, instead swerving sharply to run parallel to it. Presumably one of the powers manipulating the webway actively wants to avoid having a direct north-south path from that webway piece at the moment- very significant because that's a north-south path that would lead pretty directly to us, once past Zahr-Tann.
- The webway immediately to our west has bifurcated. Neither branch appears to be narrower than the original one was so I think the craftworld could still travel that way (if it had working engines at least) but there's definitely some shit going down in that direction. Keep eyes on it. With the southern route becoming longer and more involved and the northern route in flux, I have some concern that two of three our paths to Meros might be under threat here, but neither of them have actually been closed yet, so I don't think we need to panic. Just be paranoid.
- It's difficult to tell because a lot of this might be art style, but the webway may be thickening and thinning in different places. This may be an indicator of what's happening there, which could potentially be problematic- for example, the path from Red Sunz to Kronite appears to have thinned this update, which if true could tie in with the potential cutoff from Meros threatened in the previous bullet, but which could also be nothing at all.
- The webway around Quilan has forked into two separate paths. As we have identified no other points of interest down those paths it's unknown what this might imply.
- A new path to Fea-Eresh was opened east of Vat-Hrin.
- Several new areas were explored but it's not clear if that was the webway changing or just us uncovering more of the map.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
IIRC, the Biel tan attack is a statistical thing. We had even odds of them attacking us by then, but since it hasn't happened yet, we're might still get lucky (don't fall for the gamblers fallacy. If they kept rolling no attack, it doesn't mean an attack is guaranteed now)
Agreed, both of these sources of aoe are great, but more then anything, it reinforces how sad I am that monofiliments are stuck in bonesinger dice, because we have examples of monofiliments in canon being used as both indirect weapons, literally creating near invisible clouds and fog banks cutting strands.
Monofiliments are like flying and floating razorwire abestos on crack, and would be perfect for engaging both Eldar and Ork infantry targets, because the tech can both creates hard to navigate obstacle (monofiliment fogbank) and nearly impossible to dodge, which would make a vehicle grade AOE version the perfect middle ground for us right now.
Yes I should be asleep, but my salty tears over monofiliment being behind our biggest bottleneck haunts me (/jk)
Don't forget that we have to help the new people we met
- Location
- United Kingdom
So Turn 1 let us refit a Destroyer, Turn 2 a Frigate, and Turn 3 a Light Cruiser. If we keep doing these as they become available I imagine Turn 4 will let us do a Heavy Cruiser and Turn 5 will let us do a Battleship?
It's probably more AP efficient to wait until we have a proper refit available before we start repairing the Combat Brig's, but at the rate we're picking up obligations I don't know if we can wait that long, especially if our currently active ones start picking up combat damage.
It's probably more AP efficient to wait until we have a proper refit available before we start repairing the Combat Brig's, but at the rate we're picking up obligations I don't know if we can wait that long, especially if our currently active ones start picking up combat damage.
Yeah, assuming things we don't take this turn don't disappear and the costing remains the same it's more efficient to focus on Plasma and let the Grav weapons be slow rolled by the free research slots.
QM said that it's: the chance Biel Tan will attack us reaches at least 10% on Turn 3, which means an attack now is by no means guaranteed.