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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:

I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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lots of grand dad energy from snorri. love too see it.

wonder how much weird shit happen with all those kids underfoot.
 
My worst fears are coming true.

Repeated exposure to Dhar and warpstone...

The telltale curdle of Dhar flickering into existence at points where the bounding fields of the Runes is off by just a hair and actually creates an eddy that slows just enough to let the torrent settle. A speck of that telltale putrid radiating green your folk have seen near raw Gromril. A smooth sequence that shuts off the torrent, and the quiet work of ensuring the dissipating corruption is dealt with—


... is slowly turning Snorri into a Skaven.

You turn to stare at a rapidly approaching Svina, her boots eating up the distance with the energy only a young Dawi was foolish enough to waste on speed, stumbling to a stop just before crashing into you. The veins of her soul are brighter from when you last saw her, not too-too much, but discernibly so.
 
The way to tap into the Waystones is not runesmithing. I can't recall if the method we were taught had chant elements included, but changing them only means we're changing the security methods the chant is supposed to keep. So that's a dead end in itself.

There really is no easy way to go about it that wouldn't also introduce it's own new vulnerabilities in the future.
Activating the Waystones has a chant (several IIRC). But as copperscale says, we can just add reminders in the runic monolith chant - if Snorri hasn't already. Which, frankly, he probably has because he's already had these kinds of thoughts.
 
It occurs to me that one of the reasons Snori is so comfortable with a 13 year old in his workshop asking about Runesmith matters is that he knows she has the gift, a position very few Runesmiths have ever been in the history of the guild. Sure once in a thousand years you get a Snera who is so damn Gifted she starts spontaneously doing rune chants, but that is not something you can count on and it would be cruel to give a kid those kinds of hopes when they might not be fulfilled. Many Runelords would think the way Snori is behaving around Svina is irresponsible... right up until they realize he has a more reliable way than the Hammer to judge the Gift.
 
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Do we have time to compress the adamant maker combo and try to make a superior adamant smelter?
We don't need to do that.

We don't need to Tap the Waystones.

We have 113 bars of Adamant right now, and we need 192 by the end of turn 61/start of turn 62 (look in the Reagents section spoiler of the past update). Because of the Storm, Adamant production next turn will spike to 66 bars made that turn, and then we'll make 22 on turn 61, taking us to 201.

Tapping Waystones or delaying Skaud are both unneeded.
 
We don't need to do that.

We don't need to Tap the Waystones.

We have 113 bars of Adamant right now, and we need 192 by the end of turn 61/start of turn 62 (look in the Reagents section spoiler of the past update). Because of the Storm, Adamant production next turn will spike to 66 bars made that turn, and then we'll make 22 on turn 61, taking us to 201.

Tapping Waystones or delaying Skaud are both unneeded.
Don't we need 260 bars?

Apologies, I thought we were discussing Bungie's proposed Dragon Gronti which is 3x the size of Blood Thirster. (Yes I can confirm it's buildable, Ill edit in the cost estimates when I can find it)
EDIT:
Ah yes, Bungie asked me this a while ago on the ancient/previous Discord.

Equipment for a Gronti three times the size of a Bloodthirster: x9 Bars.
Armour from a Gronti three times the size of a Bloodthirster: x32 Bars
Full Skeleton: x48 Bars
Full body: x192 Bars

To hypothetically achieve a fully Adamant Gronti three times the size of a Bloodthirster you would need 260 Bars of Adamant (since full body necessitates a skeleton I'm not including the cost as its already part of the full body equation)
 
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No.

Re-read the actual math dude. We are working on the full body, and the Full Body is 192. 260 is the cost to do the Equipment as well, and we're not working on its equipment right now.

That's not what the quote says. Although I was wrong and it's actually 240.

240 is the sum of 48 bars for the skeleton and 192 bars for the rest of the body.

Soulcake explicitly says that the skeleton is additional to the full body amount.

Edit: hmm. Not sure now I'm rereading.
 
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That's not what the quote says. Although I was wrong and it's actually 240.

240 is the sum of 48 bars for the skeleton and 192 bars for the rest of the body.

Soulcake explicitly says that the skeleton is additional to the full body amount.
(since full body necessitates a skeleton I'm not including the cost as its already part of the full body equation).

Also if you go right now into the Reagent section and check, Soul has marked 192 bars of adamant down for Skaud.
 
AN: Already put this into the update, but for those who wanted to see it specifically! Here's Karaz-Kazak-Rhun. Had to rewrite since that part didn't save because of the power outage I dealt with on Thursday.

━<><><><==><><><>━​

You do not let Svina hold Karaz-Kazak-Rhun.

But she does get to see it.

What? Trusting a child to walk around your Workshop unsupervised? Ridiculous. Foolish! Besides, you were planning to do this before she showed up anyway. Thungni taught His apprentices while using it, so clearly it was safe enough.

And, the petty part of you cackles, the idea that a child of thirteen got to see Karaz-Kazak-Rhun before those stuffy shirts calling themselves Runelords down south in Izril was incredibly funny.

It was also a research opportunity, and more importantly, the chance for some peace and quiet. Watching as Svina's developing Stilling Field comes into range with Thungni's Hammer.

Nothing of note. Touch contact? Bah. Not in a million years.

"It's got more than three!" Svina murmurs obviously, eyes wide.

"Aye," you agree, chuffing internally as childish comprehension.

"Da always said Three was where a Runesmith had to stop…" she mutters.

"Aye," For now, "But not Thungni."

"Is 'why' a Runesmith secret?"

"Aye." Even from us.

Svina settles into silence.

You finally get to examining the hammer in peace, Windsight eye glowing as you stare at Karaz-Kazak-Rhun.

Perfection.

There's nothing quite so beautiful as a well made Rune in your opinion, and Thungni's craftsmanship is matched only by His Father's.

Plucking secrets from Karaz-Kazak-Rhun isn't going to be quite so simple as looking, but there's not much else you can do besides using it can you? While the foundational assumptions of what Runecraft could do feel like they were in flux these past few decades it remained an indisputable fact that what made Runecraft better than all other forms of magic was in its stability and replicability. Know the striking, know the reagents and do it right, you'll get the same Rune every time.

That was the rub though wasn't it.

Know the striking, know the reagents. Without either, you were in the dark. There were some workarounds to that of course; a large enough repertoire of similar Runes, knowing a variant or derivative, those could help bridge the gap to find the "original" as it were but that didn't help here.

The Rhuns of Karaz-Kazak-Rhun were an enigma. Oh you all knew the name, and could guess to which parts did what, but that was all.

A guess.

So you don't bother.

Instead you look at it on a more fundamental level; trying to see how Thungni made them, and if that held the answer to how He could break past the one hurdle no Runesmith has been able to overcome. Easier said than done of course. There was a plaitling sitting next to you and your tools were limited. Not like you could hit Thungni's hammer with itself to start understanding its properties, nor could the Eye of the Ancestors help obviously. What flaw did the work of Thungni have? None. Foolish.

The name of the seven Runes on Karaz-Kazak-Rhun were known at the very least. The Master Runes of Precision, Grounding, and Craftsmanship and the Runes of Flamecraft, Metalcraft, Forgecraft and Breaking.

You know how to make 1 of those, maybe, if the Rune of Breaking that Thungni used wasn't some variant He didn't feel the need to name. The Windsight Eye lets you see how the Winds blow in and around the Hammer, how Magic, Chamon especially, is corralled and controlled by the Runes into seamless, well-ordered flows. But that's no different from how any of the arrays you've made work either. There is something else beyond Thungni simply being better at crafting Runes (which He most assuredly is mind,), but you can't see it.

The order? Possible. The variants themselves? Equally likely with how obtuse the entire thing is.

"Gruncle, I'm going to go to the Trogg-khaz now. Can you loan me some Brass?"

You absentmindedly pass a few coins to Svina, the pitter patter of her boots fading as you continue to stare.

What is different?

The Runes continue to withhold an answer and you sigh. Skaudardrengi would be less frustrating, making that would just be hours of endless hammering, shaping with the aid of Karaz-Kazak-Rhun—
Roll, Gnolgrund: 3, Direction
A pulse. Blood, flowing. There is instinct a—

—You blink. What was that? Why was that?

Doesn't matter, you can't lose whatever it is you were seeing. You look at the hammer again, thinking about creating Skaudardrengi, trying to recreate the moment—

A pulse. Blood, flowing. There is instinct and there is intent. Mind controls the body. Thought leads to motion. Past leads to the future.

Direction.

Humming, you contemplate the implications.

They are...disquieting.

You were taught that a Rune was an individual existence. A surface level reading, like that of your Apprentices when you first teach them about the concept, of that statement would make one point to things like Rune arrays, and something like the Rune of Direction that seemingly flew in the face of such a position.

The truth was more complicated—and if you were fair the term could use some work—than that.

By individual existence you meant that while a Rune may need another to work it did not need another Rune to function in the first place. Put it another way, there was no ambiguity about where one Rune ended and where another began, they were bricks stacked atop each other, not pigment mixed for paint or a dye.

A Rune of Direction was effectively useless without another Rune for the wearer to point to aye, but it didn't stop functioning ya see. It just had no output for its effect to visibly manifest. An array in that same vein, was held to the understanding that its greater effect was a positive byproduct of three Runes acting in concert.

Quibbling, aye, and why several others didn't hold that stance. After all, Thungni made no word confirming either way, and if by the eldest theories there was a theoretically infinite amount of Runes that could be devised, why wouldn't there be a Rune that required another Rune to actually function.

Yet no such Rune has ever appeared, to your knowledge at least.

Aye, there are folk like Vragni who can discover variants so specific and niche that they'd be useless without two other variant Runes to shore up their deficiencies, but they would still work if they didn't have those Runes there. It would just be that the effect was, again, piss poor.

Had Thungni discovered differently though? More to the point, would Windsight prove you wrong and them correct? It wasn't even a consideration before...

…but now it may very well be.

Bah.


Figures Thungni's hammer would do this. Even gone He uses what He left behind to teach His descendants, even if you'd prefer He'd be a bit more direct about it.

━<><><>< Gain ><><><>━
Research
- Examine Karaz-Kazak-Rhun complete!
-- Questioning the very fundamental pillars of your belief is becoming an annoyingly more frequent occurrence. Can't have anything be simple. Bah!
-- +1 Progress to Diction Direction Pt. 2, new totals: [Cost: (7 -6) =1 actions] Research tree altered.
-- +2 Progress to The Mind of Things Pt. 6: [Cost: (8 -6) =2 actions]
-- +1 Progress to The Happening of Things, new totals: [Cost: (7 -4) = 3 actions]
━<><><><==><><><>━​
 
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Just going back a step, Monolith Mastery did only reduce the failure chance of tapping a Waystone by 10%. If that's consistent with future benefits, we'd need another five steps of the research tree to be able to do this safely. That's likely to be a very long way off

Just saw this:

Rune of Durin's Challenge would be very appropriate since it's part of solving one of the Challenges he left behind

Rune of Durin's Resolve, possibly?
 
Most dwarfs would 'just' take that to be Gromril as a reminder, the existence and nature of Adamant is a secret.
Is that still true at this point?

Snorri and the other Brotherhood members have traded/used it for a number of projects with other Runesmiths. Didn't Hammerspite change his challenge to breaking adamant? In that vein at least the other burudin members know about it.
 
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