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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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Simon_Jester said:
The trouble arises mainly if Daemon himself tries to step forward as a rival claimant who will take a hard line against Dorne, either in his own person or on behalf of his children with Laena (should they marry) and gets the backing of the Velaryon dragonriders. Then we'd really be in the soup.
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I have pointing this out for ages now. Hopefully with your backing people might actually listen.

Shapeless Phobos said:
We're going to have years to unruffle those feathers and forge our own allies. The Tarly's and Hightower's are some of our best bets since we already have in's with them. Even the canonical war that you're drawing from that a Dornish match automatically cuts us from Marcher support had more major Marcher lords seemingly on the Pro-Dornish side than not. Via further match making and politicking.
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  • How many Reacher Lords sided with Daemon? Answer nearly all of them.
  • Which of the Seven Kingdoms has the largest population? Answer the Reach.
In exchange for earning Reacher enimity (which is roughly 70,000 men), we will get at most the 20,000 men of Dorne
 
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Temes1066 said:
I have pointing this out for ages now. Hopefully with your backing people might actually listen.
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Well, the catch is that I'm not sure anymore how likely this scenario I'm worried about is.

Some character- ironically I think it may have been Ser Raylon Tarly- said something about how he was pretty confident the Velaryons wouldn't be turning their dragons against Rhaenyra's throne. While Corlys may have dynastic ambitions that would lead him to wish otherwise, Rhaenys' opinion in the matter is very important since ultimately one of the three dragons is hers and her kids aren't necessarily going to side with their scheming and older father, or with a chaos gremlin like Daemon, against their mother's wishes. As long as the Velaryons stay out of it, then the political consequences of the Dornish marriage are likely to be manageable, at least for the first several years until a hypothetical son of Johanna and Viserys comes of age and possibly even then. I don't think anyone's going to revolt over it without the backing of one or more dragonriders, and I don't think Daemon will do it alone.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Some character- ironically I think it may have been Ser Raylon Tarly- said something about how he was pretty confident the Velaryons wouldn't be turning their dragons against Rhaenyra's throne. While Corlys may have dynastic ambitions that would lead him to wish otherwise, Rhaenys' opinion in the matter is very important since ultimately one of the three dragons is hers and her kids aren't necessarily going to side with their scheming and older father, or with a chaos gremlin like Daemon, against their mother's wishes.
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Yeah, that was Ser Raylon's opinion.
 
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[X] Invite Prince Qoren Martell to King's Landing
[x] Have Your Father Begin Negotiations with Lyonel Strong
I'll admit, I kinda just want to see the fucking demigodsthat would produce from this Rhaenyra and Breakbones
 
I will say the question of if Daemon would revolt and if the Velayrons would join him are two very different questions. Daemon is very much a chaos germlin who's largely only held in check by his love for his brother.
 
Teen Spirit said:
I will say the question of if Daemon would revolt and if the Velayrons would join him are two very different questions. Daemon is very much a chaos germlin who's largely only held in check by his love for his brother.
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Daemon doesn't need all of the Velaryon dragons. If him and Laena team-up, we have to face Vhagar and Caraxes, which is worrying as Vhagar is best dragon around since Balerion's death.
 
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Temes1066 said:
  • How many Reacher Lords sided with Daemon? Answer nearly all of them.
  • Which of the Seven Kingdoms has the largest population? Answer the Reach.
In exchange for earning Reacher enimity (which is roughly 70,000 men), we will get at most the 20,000 men of Dorne
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Friendly reminder that lots and lots of people hate this Daemon, whereas Daemon Blackfyre was a charming man that virtually everyone liked. Otto in particular fucking hates Daemon, and a lot of houses would likely follow Hightower's lead. Now, if Viserys has a son, the reach might decide they like that candidate better than a pro dorne Rhaenyra, but Daemon is unlikely to sway many houses with his arrogance and demanding.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Just to be clear, could you please provide your evidence for "mad imbecile" (you don't have to be an imbecile to think leeches work in a medieval setting, just wrong in a way a lot of other people are wrong).
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We know that westeros has had more competent healers than that.
Mellos was known for his reliance on traditional treatments, including frequent leechings. Archmaester Gyldayn, who often referenced Mellos's accounts in his own writings, considered these methods less effective than the potions and tinctures used by Maester Gerardys. Despite criticism of his practices, Mellos played a significant role in the events of Viserys's reign.
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Mellos stuck with traditional treatments long past the point where it was clear there effects were insufficient, failing to call on further aid from the order of Maesters in the kings treatment. It's one thing to make mistakes, another to make excuses and insist on your preferred techniques will work if they are tried again. I suppose it would make more sense to say he is an educated person but not one with good sense or problem solving skills. In the end a lot of royals died under his care.
 
Wiggy said:
Otto in particular fucking hates Daemon, and a lot of houses would likely follow Hightower's lead
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Didn't the Greens make the assumption that with Otto onside the Reach was theirs?

Quite a few Reachmen chose the Blacks instead, even thought Daemon would have been King-Consort and Rhaenyra was a massive slut-bomb of ill-repute.

Black Houses of the Reach:
  • House Rowan (Lead by the very well respected Thaddeus Rowan)
  • House Beesbury (Hightower vassal)
  • House Mullendore (Hightower vassal)
  • House Costayne (Hightower vassal)
  • House Merryweather
  • House Tarly
  • House Oakheart
  • House Grimm
  • House Footly
  • House Caswell
 
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Temes1066 said:
Didn't the Greens make the assumption that with Otto onside the Reach was theirs?

Quite a few Reachmen chose the Blacks instead, even thought Daemon would have been King-Consort and Rhaenyra was a massive slut-bomb of ill-repute.
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Honestly it seemed like a lot of the Reach wasn't willingly on the Hightowers side at the start of the war. Cause in Book canon, most of Daeron's early actions are using his dragon to force much of the reach to swear to Aegon's cause.


Zimmerwald1915 said:
Question: who, besides his own family and Viserys, does Otto like? Man so far has been primarily defined by who he's enemies with: principally Daemon and Corlys.
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He gets along well with Lyonel and Beesbury.
 
Temes1066 said:
Quite a few Reachmen chose the Blacks instead, even thought Daemon would have been King-Consort and Rhaenyra was a massive slut-bomb of ill-repute.
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Which I'd take as evidence that a lot of them would probably stick with us even if we're overly friendly to Dorne over reneging their oaths and siding with a usurper, yes. I certainly don't think it was any particular love of Daemon that motivated them.
 
[X] Have Your Father Write to Rhaenys Targaryen

Dorne is pretty clearly going to win this vote which I don't mind but I'm still team Rhaenys.

On the one hand I genuinely don't think getting Dorne on board diplomatically without ridiculous concessions no one else (etc maybe the North due to apathy) would accept is possible. Like even if Qoren is actually eager to be King-consort and unite the 7 Kingdoms properly he still HAS to go for the strongest concessions just because of how much the Dornish would revolt.

On the other hand Dorne wins the "best region" award just due to being the least rampantly horrifically sexist and I absolutely want some of that influence in the quest where the female MC is trying to be the ruling Monarch - like it actually pisses me the fuck off that LITERALLY no fic has Rhaenyra not only win the crown but also adopt equal primogeniture even though supporting that would explicitly strengthen her own claim.

Like there's fics with Rhaenyra as the mc where her firstborn(s) are girls but overlooks them for her younger son like that doesn't LITERALLY tell people that "hey, I actually agree with the greens that sons supersede daughters, I just want you all to ignore that this one time".

"You're actually right and I agree with you but SHUT UP LET ME WIN" - What a great way to win an argument.

And people usually reply to me here with "no, the argument is actually a Monarch has the ability to choose their heir and what they say goes" and that....still supports the greens in this situation? Like, a Rhaenyra who COULD chose her older daughter to inherit, but instead chooses her younger son is agreeing the son is the better option. Like by choosing her son verses her daughter she's saying her son is the better option, why else would she do it if she can choose? Which is what the Greens are saying.

A Rhaenyra whose firstborn is a daughter HAS to have her as heir, otherwise which ever way you argue it it supports the Greens. It's literally either saying the Greens are right becuase sons supersede daughters or saying the Greens are right because the son is the better option.

Also Rhaenyra starting a line of Amazonian Warrior-Queens would be amazing. Genetics is evidently weird on Planetos (it is fantasy after all) so all of her female descendants inheriting her height and physical strength is absolutely possible.

On the other other hand I want some FUCKIN WAR in this quest and a foreign conquest beats a civil war any day.

So unless we get to go-a-conquering in Essos Dorne is the only option.

Plus as I've said prior just practically speaking Leanor is the best option for stability because Corlys is power-hungry and absolutely would back Daemon (who would also get the backing of AT LEAST the Stormlands in that case) if he's totally fucking ignored by Rhaenyra - plus Leanor is laid back, gay, and has both Rhaeys and Leana as his mum and sister (two ambitious defiant strong women) so he just isn't going to ever attempt to take over and would be perfectly fine with both Rhae herself and her relationship with Alicent.

Plus totally has potential for Leana getting Driftmark which I would support.

Like Corlys wants his descendants on the throne? Leanor takes the Targ name LIKE ANY DAUGHTER WOULD HAVE TO, their kids are Targs and Leana gets Driftmark so Leanor can fully focus on being the best consort he can be - you can't dedicate all to the job if you're also ruling your own lands and while a consort is expected to be biased/speak in favour of their own family it's a bit different to BE the ruler of your family's domains.

In other cases it is considered perfectly valid for a inheriting daughter to be passed over for a younger sibling in order to become Queen-consort so it can happen for a son becoming King-consort too - I swear that actually happened with Dorne multiple times - firstborn is girl, family seeks to marry royal heir, only/best option is firstborn girl, girl would need to marry Prince and take name so can't inherit, passes to younger sibling.

So Corlys' wants Leanor to be King(consort) and his grandkid on the throne? Then like in any other situation Leanor has to give up name, and titles and domains are passed onto sibling (Leana).
 
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