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A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

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Yeah, the thing is that we want a solid, reliable tank chassis that doesn't break the bank and can be employed in most circumstances. We've got a passable Chimera-equiviliant in the iterated Light Grav, but a solid tank chassis could go a long way for us in the future.

Leman Russ is meta for IG for good reason after all, and we can do a hell of a lot better than that for our forces while still having it fit the same doctrinal role of being an extremely adaptable swiss army tank.
 
Alectai said:
-[ ]Jetbike Iteration
--[ ] Basic Refractor Field Generator
--[ ] Improved Armor
--[ ] Suit-Link System
--[ ] Slot Spread: 1 Heavy, 2 Systems
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Candesce said:
[ ] Plan: Crystalline Constructs
-[ ][Jetbike] Basic Refractor Field Generator
-[ ][Jetbike] Suit-Link System
-[ ][Jetbike] Improved Armor
-[ ][Jetbike] 1x Heavy Weapon slot, 2x System Slots
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On this jetbike design- both of you are building this while intending on putting a holo-field on our jetbikes, right? So we're looking at a jetbike with a cost of 21 base+18 holo-field+4 integrated system set before the heavy weapon is selected, for a base cost of 43 EP plus the weapon, or probably something like 53-58 EP total (for a heavy needler and sunblaster, respectively, as the weapon choices). Or 63 EP for the insane "just stick a graviton sheer rifle on the front and drive through everything" design, of course.

If our jetbike design ends up not using a holofield, we'll almost certainly be converting those 2 system slots to ranged weapon slots at a cost of 7 EP each, and 14 EP is a pretty large tax to pay at jetbike prices so those ranged weapon slots should be fixed in now to avoid the surcharge.
 
I mean, it's the same design.

But yeah, it's pricey, not insanely so, and even if we go without a Holo-Field, we're still looking at something respectable.

Hell, if we're lucky, the Suit-Link might let us extend the Void Guard Warsuit's Holofield's range, which'd save us some expense. The point is that it's a fast attack unit that can take the occasional run of bad luck while either strafing infantry formations or threatening armored units depending on whether it's rocking a Heavy Needler or a Heavy Sunblaster.

Or, if we really wanted to get cheeky, a Graviton Thruster Lance to just "Lol nope" a line.

A Heavy Weapon Slot Also gives us the option of mounting a Fatecaster Rifle for elite units.
 
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vsh said:
Basic refractor shields are a must for everything with grav shields, as they allow grav-shields to ignore low power fire and save their limited deflections per second on hits that matter. Chameleon plating are imo useless, let's put holo-field on everything.
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That depends on which shield is triggered first when your vehicle is fired upon.

Both seem like they need the projectile to actually make contact with the thing the shield is protecting since neither is described as creating a bubble like a Void-Shield.
 
Alectai said:
I mean, it's the same design.
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That's why I quoted both of you.

But yeah, it's pricey, not insanely so, and even if we go without a Holo-Field, we're still looking at something respectable.

Hell, if we're lucky, the Suit-Link might let us extend the Void Guard Warsuit's Holofield's range, which'd save us some expense. The point is that it's a fast attack unit that can take the occasional run of bad luck while either strafing infantry formations or threatening armored units depending on whether it's rocking a Heavy Needler or a Heavy Sunblaster.
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Based on your response I suspect that you've missed the point of my question.

If we go with the holo-field design, prices are as stated above and everything is in order.

However, if we go with no holo-field for a 1 heavy+2 ranged weapon design without specifying ranged weapon slots now, we end up paying 39 EP before weapon costs instead of 25 EP before weapon costs, which is a huge difference when we're going to be refitting more than a thousand of these to this design. So if we want to be trying for a Void Guard-Suit Link combo like you're suggesting here and use the two slots currently listed as ranged weapons instead of having an inbuilt holo-field, we need the chassis to be using those two system slots as ranged weapons in its base design.

Which is why it's important for the people proposing these plans to be very clear on whether they want to be using a vehicle holo-field or a pair of extra ranged weapons on their jetbike designs.
 
Oh yeah, no, I don't think a "Two ranged weapon" design is viable for this or I'd have stuck with that setup. A single Heavy Weapon should be all the integrated firepower a Jetbike should need. Everything else is delivery mechanism and package preservation.
 
I think just a heavy weapon + maybe one ranged is good for a bike refit. But for a potential charge cavalry bike we'd need Heavy + 2x melee slots + holo-field, so either an improved engines refit or a new vehicle.
 
DarkLight140 said:
If our jetbike design ends up not using a holofield, we'll almost certainly be converting those 2 system slots to ranged weapon slots at a cost of 7 EP each, and 14 EP is a pretty large tax to pay at jetbike prices so those ranged weapon slots should be fixed in now to avoid the surcharge.
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There is no sensible reason not to include Holo Field.
vsh said:
I think just a heavy weapon + maybe one ranged is good for a bike refit. But for a potential charge cavalry bike we'd need Heavy + 2x melee slots + holo-field, so either an improved engines refit or a new vehicle.
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One heavy weapon is fine for now, but in the long run we can design one from scratch, just not on the agenda for a while.

While I'm here, assuming Militarized hull also gives more than one pick, are we in favor of a Brigantine Iterate? I personally want to say yes, because there are probably modifications for anti-boarder defense it would be good to have around our webway gates, to say nothing of other options you could fit inside a battleship class hull. Just the thousand starcrystals in a Megalance makes it worth iterating.
 
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Hunter531 said:
Prioritizing protecting the man over the metal, bit odd considering the setting but I like it.
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We're Aeldari, Nurgle has made it so that the vast majority of our kids die in the womb and anyone who dies without a soulstone gets their soul eaten by Slaanesh, which we really care about. Humans breed fast enough and theres enough of them that their commanders don't care about losing millions in a single battle, and they die of old age really fast anyway. Our dudes functionally don't die of old age, and each man we lose is hundreds to thousands of years of experience lost. Every dead man matters for us.
 
Here's my draft one more time..

[ ] Plan: Vulkhari Fighting Vehicles Continued
-[ ]Jetbike Iteration
--[ ] Basic Refractor Field Generator
--[ ] Improved Armor
--[ ] Suit-Link System
--[ ] Slot Spread: 1 Heavy, 2 Systems
-[ ] Light Grav-Vehicle Iteration
--[ ] Enhanced Grav-Engine
---[ ] Enhanced Grav-Engine x2
--[ ] Smoke Grenade Pods
--[ ] Light Armor
--[ ] Fighting Compartment
--[ ] Armored Engine Cowlings
--[ ] Slot Spread: 1 Heavy, 23 Systems
-[ ] Air Racer Iteration
--[ ] Basic Refractor Field Generator
--[ ] Further Improve Engine Size
---[ ] Further Improve Engine Size x2
--[ ] Slots Spread: 3 Vehicle, 9 Systems
-[ ] Novel Chassis Design
--[ ] Medium

I have to go to bed soon, but generally, the thrust is...

1) Jetbike that can integrate a Holofield, and has reasonable protection and resistance to laser weapons. Designed to synergize with Void Guard Warsuit use and variants can be easily made for tank-hunters or infantry lawnmowers with contemptuous ease.

2) Extremely flexible all-purpose light vehicle, redesigned to have respectable protection while having lots of room to be specialized as needed. Has a single integrated heavy weapon mount, but variants can pay the tax to add a Vehicle slot for added punch, or they can be designed to be excellent utility vehicles.

3) A flexible chassis with three Vehicle grade weapon slots and 9 systems, allowing it to be used either as a fighter or a bomber specialist chassis--or even an all-rounder if we decide to go that way. Expensive to produce, but has a solid amount of potential until we have the time and leisure to design bespoke airframes.

4) A Medium Chassis is relatively inexpensive, relatively quick to finish, and yet can be designed to be extremely flexible if we prepare it accordingly, with lots of flexibility depending on what primary battery we decide to give it and what other modifications are needed to excel. It's our Leman Russ equivalent that we can make a morbillion variants of in the long run, and should be designed appropriately--but even if it turns out to not work out quite as planned, it's not so huge an investment that we break our backs working with it.

So yeah, someone can freely copy-paste that when voting opens, I'm going to slep.
 
AeonIlluminate said:
We're Aeldari, Nurgle has made it so that the vast majority of our kids die in the womb and anyone who dies without a soulstone gets their soul eaten by Slaanesh, which we really care about. Humans breed fast enough and theres enough of them that their commanders don't care about losing millions in a single battle, and they die of old age really fast anyway. Our dudes functionally don't die of old age, and each man we lose is hundreds to thousands of years of experience lost. Every dead man matters for us.
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I know that. It was meant as a joke.
 
I'm kind of confused on the Air Racer slot count. We should have 27 total, but we're only assigning 12? Are we allowed to leave the rest unassigned for flexibility later?

Edit: Never mind, right, vehicle slots cost 6.
 
Alectai said:
2) Extremely flexible all-purpose light vehicle, redesigned to have respectable protection while having lots of room to be specialized as needed. Has a single integrated heavy weapon mount, but variants can pay the tax to add a Vehicle slot for added punch, or they can be designed to be excellent utility vehicles.
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The light grav vehicle is a medium chassis not a light one. (see it baseline having 24 slots).

Feels like this design kind of misses the point.

The reason why I go for 21 system slots on my version is because I design this chassis as an attached transporter and nothing else and for that I need a ton of system slots.

Otherwise, I would convert anything but the 8 system slots for the defenses into vehicle weapon slots and heavy weapon slots.

You converted the system slot on this to weapon slots, and you are starting to pay likely pretty ugly costs.

Edit:
My current vote using the Crystalline designs as a base for the most part.
Also didn't do this as an overall plan design for a reason namely that is bad here.
The design are all independent of each other and stuffing them all into one plan means you make voting for one design conditional on another that you might dislike.

[] Plan: Refractor Jetbike
-[ ][Jetbike] Basic Refractor Field Generator
-[ ][Jetbike] Suit-Link System
-[ ][Jetbike] Improved Armor
-[ ][Jetbike] 1x Heavy Weapon slot, 2x System Slots

[] Plan: Crystalline light grav vehicle
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Basic Refractor Field Generator
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Smoke Grenade Pods
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Light Armor
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Medium Armor
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Fighting Compartment
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Armored Engine Cowlings
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] 1x Heavy Weapon Slot, 21 System Slots


[] Plan: Solid attached transport
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Enhanced Grav-Engine
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Basic Refractor Field Generator
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Light Armor
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Medium Armor
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Fighting Compartment
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Armored Engine Cowlings
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] 1x Heavy Weapon Slot, 1Ranged slot, 21 System Slots

[] Plan: Air Racer
-[ ][Air Racer] Chameleoline Plating
-[ ][Air Racer] Basic Refractor Field Generator
-[ ][Air Racer] 2x Further Improve Engine Size
-[ ][Air Racer] 3x Vehicle Slots, 9x System Slots

[ ] Heavy

And yeah going with the heavy chassis development because we currently don't have anything for that.

Edit:
Added the vehicle design from Alectai plan as single vehicle designs (jetbike is the same as the crystal one).
[ ] Plan: Vulkhari Fighting: Light Grav-Vehicle
-[ ] Enhanced Grav-Engine
--[ ] Enhanced Grav-Engine x2
-[ ] Smoke Grenade Pods
-[ ] Light Armor
-[ ] Fighting Compartment
-[ ] Armored Engine Cowlings
-[ ] Slot Spread: 1 Heavy, 23 Systems

[ ] Plan: Vulkhari Fighting: Air Racer
-[ ] Basic Refractor Field Generator
-[ ] Further Improve Engine Size
--[ ] Further Improve Engine Size x2
-[ ] Slots Spread: 3 Vehicle, 9 Systems

[] Medium

Personally I think I will go with
[] Plan: Refractor Jetbike
[] Plan: Crystalline light grav vehicle and [] Plan: Solid attached transport
[ ] Plan: Vulkhari Fighting: Air Racer
And the heavy chassis for new chassis.
 
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Well don't particular like to double post but hey start for the actual voting.

The designs are the same as the two overall plan votes this just lets people pick and choose which they actually like.
Also added my own design for a general attached transport chassis.

Personally like the Air Racer chassis from Vulkhari Fighting but kind of dislike the lack of the medium armor on the light grav vehicle + going for the medium chassis development over the heavy one.
This gives the option to vote for the parts that people actually like from both plans without also having to go for the ones they dislike.

[X][Jetbike] Plan: Refractor Jetbike
-[X][Jetbike] Basic Refractor Field Generator
-[X][Jetbike] Suit-Link System
-[X][Jetbike] Improved Armor
-[X][Jetbike] 1x Heavy Weapon slot, 2x System Slots

________________________________________________________________________
[X][Light Grav-Vehicle] Plan: Crystalline light grav vehicle
-[X][Light Grav-Vehicle] Basic Refractor Field Generator
-[X][Light Grav-Vehicle] Smoke Grenade Pods
-[X][Light Grav-Vehicle] Light Armor
-[X][Light Grav-Vehicle] Medium Armor
-[X][Light Grav-Vehicle] Fighting Compartment
-[X][Light Grav-Vehicle] Armored Engine Cowlings
-[X][Light Grav-Vehicle] 1x Heavy Weapon Slot,21 System Slots

[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Plan: Vulkhari Fighting: Light Grav-Vehicle
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Enhanced Grav-Engine
--[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Enhanced Grav-Engine x2
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Smoke Grenade Pods
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Light Armor
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Fighting Compartment
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Armored Engine Cowlings
-[ ][Light Grav-Vehicle] Slot Spread: 1 Heavy, 23 Systems

[X][Light Grav-Vehicle] Plan: Solid attached transport
-[X][Light Grav-Vehicle] Enhanced Grav-Engine
-[X][Light Grav-Vehicle] Basic Refractor Field Generator
-[X][Light Grav-Vehicle] Light Armor
-[X][Light Grav-Vehicle] Medium Armor
-[X][Light Grav-Vehicle] Fighting Compartment
-[X][Light Grav-Vehicle] Armored Engine Cowlings
-[X][Light Grav-Vehicle] 1x Heavy Weapon Slot, 1 Ranged Weapon slot 21 System Slots

For the "light" grav vehicle chassis i am going for both version with medium armor because they will most likely be used for our attached transports.
This includes our assault transports, so they will be getting shot at a lot the extra armor is worth it there.
It also makes it harder to damage the open-top variant.

The medium armor also doesn't reduce top speed, but effects the vehicle's turning and acceleration abilities which are a bit harder for me to judge the impact of.

_____________________________________________________
[][Air Racer] Plan:Crystalline Air Racer
-[ ][Air Racer] Chameleoline Plating
-[ ][Air Racer] Basic Refractor Field Generator
-[ ][Air Racer] 2x Further Improve Engine Size
-[ ][Air Racer] 3x Vehicle Slots, 9x System Slots

[X][Air Racer] Plan: Vulkhari Fighting: Air Racer
-[X][Air Racer] Basic Refractor Field Generator
-[X][Air Racer] Further Improve Engine Size
--[X][Air Racer] Further Improve Engine Size x2
-[X][Air Racer] Slots Spread: 3 Vehicle, 9 Systems

Prefer the design that doesn't include the chameleoline plating as that is kind of just increase EP cost without much of an impact.


These here are for which new chassis gets developed.
Something to note we totally lack a heavy one.
The light grav vehicle is a medium chassis, so technically we don't need to develop one from scratch right now.

[X][Novel Chassis Design] Heavy

[][Novel Chassis Design] Medium
 
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Posting Alectai's plan on his behalf.

[X] Plan: Vulkhari Fighting Vehicles Continued
-[X]Jetbike Iteration
--[X] Basic Refractor Field Generator
--[X] Improved Armor
--[X] Suit-Link System
--[X] Slot Spread: 1 Heavy, 2 Systems
-[X] Light Grav-Vehicle Iteration
--[X] Enhanced Grav-Engine
---[X] Enhanced Grav-Engine x2
--[X] Smoke Grenade Pods
--[X] Light Armor
--[X] Fighting Compartment
--[X] Armored Engine Cowlings
--[X] Slot Spread: 1 Heavy, 23 Systems
-[X] Air Racer Iteration
--[X] Basic Refractor Field Generator
--[X] Further Improve Engine Size
---[X] Further Improve Engine Size x2
--[X] Slots Spread: 3 Vehicle, 9 Systems
-[X] Novel Chassis Design
--[X] Medium

1) Jetbike that can integrate a Holofield, and has reasonable protection and resistance to laser weapons. Designed to synergize with Void Guard Warsuit use and variants can be easily made for tank-hunters or infantry lawnmowers with contemptuous ease.

2) Extremely flexible all-purpose light vehicle, redesigned to have respectable protection while having lots of room to be specialized as needed. Has a single integrated heavy weapon mount, but variants can pay the tax to add a Vehicle slot for added punch, or they can be designed to be excellent utility vehicles.

3) A flexible chassis with three Vehicle grade weapon slots and 9 systems, allowing it to be used either as a fighter or a bomber specialist chassis--or even an all-rounder if we decide to go that way. Expensive to produce, but has a solid amount of potential until we have the time and leisure to design bespoke airframes.

4) A Medium Chassis is relatively inexpensive, relatively quick to finish, and yet can be designed to be extremely flexible if we prepare it accordingly, with lots of flexibility depending on what primary battery we decide to give it and what other modifications are needed to excel. It's our Leman Russ equivalent that we can make a morbillion variants of in the long run, and should be designed appropriately--but even if it turns out to not work out quite as planned, it's not so huge an investment that we break our backs working with it.
 
[] Plan: Vulkhari Fighting Vehicles Continued

I don't particularly care for the refractor field, and would prefer the bigger engine, but i also don't care to argue about a design that will be superseded by a proper war bike design in the short-medium term.
 
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IronFist said:
I don't particularly care for the refractor field, and would prefer the bigger engine, but i also don't care to argue about a design that will be superseded by a proper war bike design in the short-medium term.
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Pretty sure this is about as good as we can get for jetbikes.
They count as ultralight vehicles which means they have 5 slots (6 with engine).

That doesn't change if we build one from the ground up:
Mechanis said:
Select Chassis Size:
[ ] Ultralight
Ultralight vehicles are typically single seat affairs—if they are manned at all—used as light skirmishers, reconnaissance, or gun carriers in combat, or for support roles such as small unit transport.
An Ultralight vehicle begins with 5 system slots.
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Skjadir said:
Pretty sure this is about as good as we can get for jetbikes.
They count as ultralight vehicles which means they have 5 slots (6 with engine).

That doesn't change if we build one from the ground up:
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We have an option to add a single slot with just iteration. From scratch has been implied to be significantly better in terms of modification and specialization, so there is at least the possibility, if not likelihood of further slot addition in a from scratch design.
 
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