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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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I would like to point out to the guys that have voted for the plan [] Plan Not Great, Not Terrible and that favors the Viserys Laena match that Elder Haman has proposed several new plans that are direct improvements over the old ones, which have made a previous supporter of
[] Plan The Conciliator to switch votes...

Elder Haman said:
I see two viable paths here. The key is that the Velaryons control too many dragons. Without Daemon we must have them as allies. That means either we marry Laenor, or our father marries Laena. Viserys marrying Laena option is very similar to the Plan Not Great Not Terrible, but with more optimized selections.

[X] Plan: Second Mother to Our Siblings
-[X] Matters of Law and Coin
-[X] Try to convince him to support a marriage alliance with the Velaryons, but delayed. We need their dragons as a hedge against Daemon. Considering Laena's age, a betrothal while delaying the actual marriage for four years is reasonable. It will give your father time to grieve, and it will ensure that you will be 19 years older than any siblings, allowing you to marry your children to them if Laena has children, avoiding any future dynastic conflicts.
-[X] Agree to support their efforts in exchange for favors (Select as many as you want but they will likely refuse if too much is demanded)
--[X] They agree to delay any marriage for four years. This is far safer for Laena than trying to have children too young. It also allows Viserys time to grieve, making him more likely to agree.
--[X] They agree to support your inheritance to the throne, and you agree to wed your heir to a child of either Laena or Laenor's. (If you have no children, of course you will name a sibling heir).
--[X] Lord Corlys agrees to support your efforts to attain a seat on the Small Council

[X] Plan: Political Marriage is our Duty
-[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
-[X] Try to convince him to help delay your father's decision on who he should marry.
-[X] Try and convince them to drop offer with Laena and have Laenor marry you instead (Will increase Stress if they accept)
--[X] Lord Corlys agrees to support your efforts to attain a seat on the Small Council

The first plan leverages our primary emotional connection we made with Otto. It's too soon, let a man grieve. While recognizing that we need the Velaryon dragons. While at the same time presenting a plan to avoid future dynastic disputes. As 19 years older we will functionally be a full generation ahead of any siblings, and can arrange matches as needed. Taking such an approach means we have much less need for diplomacy, and we can instead look at things like Stewardship, improving our chances for a Small Council seat.

I like it much better than the current version, which does not delay the marriage, and as such I think greatly endangers our inheritance. Being 19 years ahead of any children will make a huge difference, and already suggesting a marriage alliance of our children means that the Velaryons will be fully on board as our supporters. I think the current plan is too naive about what will happen if Laena marries young and produces a son. In that case it's the Velaryons that will become our enemy, Blues vs Blacks, and unless we marry Daemon (or Laenor) it means we will be the one with the disadvantage in dragons. Far worse than the one that the Greens faced in canon.

The second is a much more straightforward action. We gain our fathers support by accepting the duty instead of him. It means we will still need to take action in the future about our father's marriage, but it secures the Valeryon dragons behind our inheritance. Yes we end up with stress, but that's the cost of being an heir.

I suppose there is also the third option:

[X] Plan: Political Marriage is Both our Duties
-[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
-[X] Try to convince him to help convince your father to choose another bride
--[X] If your father is going to marry for the good of the realm, then it should bring the realm something: Propose Deria Martell as a match.
-[X] Try and convince them to drop offer with Laena and have Laenor marry you instead (Will increase Stress if they accept)
--[X] Lord Corlys agrees to support your efforts to attain a seat on the Small Council

This would be going for the full option to make sure there are no threats to our inheritance. Dance is cancelled, and we can focus on the rest of our interests.

EDIT: I guess this plan is close to the third one of mine, so I'll approval vote it for now:

[X] Plan: The Dragonriders' Compromise
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Sorry for tagging you guys @No7sHere @Effective Effect @mrsean22 @Susano @Lovemuffin @Andrensath @Rat King , but I really think this new development may interest you...
 
[X] Plan: Second Mother to Our Siblings
[X] Plan: Political Marriage is Both our Duties
[X] Plan: The Dragonriders' Compromise
[X] Plan Not Great, Not Terrible
[X] Plan Commit To Your Choices
 
[X] Plan: Second Mother to Our Siblings
[X] Plan: Political Marriage is our Duty
[X] Plan Not Great, Not Terrible

I'm not approval voting them all, but those all seem very reasonable.
 
[X] Plan: Second Mother to Our Siblings
[X] Plan: Political Marriage is our Duty
[X] Plan Not Great, Not Terrible
 
[X] Plan: Second Mother to Our Siblings
[X] Plan: Political Marriage is our Duty
[X] Plan Not Great, Not Terrible
 
[X] Plan: Political Marriage is our Duty
[X] Plan: Political Marriage is Both our Duties

[X] Plan: Second Mother to Our Siblings
 
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[X] Plan: Political Marriage is Both our Duties
[X] Plan: The Dragonriders' Compromise
 
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I know no one has put music and i get that it is just worse than the other options but I cant get over it. we'd be Visenya reborn and Rhaegar with tits
 
[X] Plan Not Great, Not Terrible
-[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
-[X] Try to convince Otto that the match is advantageous, given that Daemon has been all but committing treason already, and that you need to focus on checking the Sea Snakes power more directly. Promise Otto to support his cause, once you sit on the Small Council.
-[X] Agree to support their efforts in exchange for favors (Select as many as you want but they will likely refuse if too much is demanded)
--[X] Set up a treaty concerning the succession, clearly stating that you are the heiress to the Iron Throne ahead of all children from a second marriage, and those in turn are ahead of Daemon and any other claimants.
--[X] Lord Corlys agrees to support your efforts to attain a seat on the Small Council
[X] Plan: Second Mother to Our Siblings
-[X] Matters of Law and Coin
-[X] Try to convince him to support a marriage alliance with the Velaryons, but delayed. We need their dragons as a hedge against Daemon. Considering Laena's age, a betrothal while delaying the actual marriage for four years is reasonable. It will give your father time to grieve, and it will ensure that you will be 19 years older than any siblings, allowing you to marry your children to them if Laena has children, avoiding any future dynastic conflicts.
-[X] Agree to support their efforts in exchange for favors (Select as many as you want but they will likely refuse if too much is demanded)
--[X] They agree to delay any marriage for four years. This is far safer for Laena than trying to have children too young. It also allows Viserys time to grieve, making him more likely to agree.
--[X] They agree to support your inheritance to the throne, and you agree to wed your heir to a child of either Laena or Laenor's. (If you have no children, of course you will name a sibling heir).
--[X] Lord Corlys agrees to support your efforts to attain a seat on the Small Council
 
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Sparda demon said:
[X] Plan Not Great, Not Terrible
-[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
-[X] Try to convince Otto that the match is advantageous, given that Daemon has been all but committing treason already, and that you need to focus on checking the Sea Snakes power more directly. Promise Otto to support his cause, once you sit on the Small Council.
-[X] Agree to support their efforts in exchange for favors (Select as many as you want but they will likely refuse if too much is demanded)
--[X] Set up a treaty concerning the succession, clearly stating that you are the heiress to the Iron Throne ahead of all children from a second marriage, and those in turn are ahead of Daemon and any other claimants.
--[X] Lord Corlys agrees to support your efforts to attain a seat on the Small Council
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I would like to suggest you to put [] Plan: Second Mother to Our Siblings in approval vote at least, it does the same that Not Great, Not Terrible but is better optimised
 
I do not think Corlys will agree to the delay with his reasons for rejecting that having already been stated by him. He seems to want a marriage for an alliance right now, not four years later.

[X] Plan: Political Marriage is Both our Duties
[X] Plan: The Dragonriders' Compromise
 
Fireiy said:
I do not think Corlys will agree to the delay with his reasons for rejecting that having already been stated by him. He seems to want a marriage for an alliance right now, not four years later.
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Click to shrink...
Well, a formal betrothal is a very serious compromise, and in the case of a girl Laena's age is is both understandable and tasteful to wait for a few years...
 
I'll let the vote run until tomorrow morning.

Adhoc vote count started by Teen Spirit on Aug 13, 2024 at 1:33 AM, finished with 194 posts and 46 votes.
  • [X] Plan The Conciliator
    -[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
    -[X] Try to convince him to help convince your father to choose another bride
    -[X] Make no firm offers but remain civil
    [X] Plan: Second Mother to Our Siblings
    -[X] Matters of Law and Coin
    -[X] Try to convince him to support a marriage alliance with the Velaryons, but delayed. We need their dragons as a hedge against Daemon. Considering Laena's age, a betrothal while delaying the actual marriage for four years is reasonable. It will give your father time to grieve, and it will ensure that you will be 19 years older than any siblings, allowing you to marry your children to them if Laena has children, avoiding any future dynastic conflicts.
    -[X] Agree to support their efforts in exchange for favors (Select as many as you want but they will likely refuse if too much is demanded)
    --[X] They agree to delay any marriage for four years. This is far safer for Laena than trying to have children too young. It also allows Viserys time to grieve, making him more likely to agree.
    --[X] They agree to support your inheritance to the throne, and you agree to wed your heir to a child of either Laena or Laenor's. (If you have no children, of course you will name a sibling heir).
    --[X] Lord Corlys agrees to support your efforts to attain a seat on the Small Council
    [X] Plan Not Great, Not Terrible
    -[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
    -[X] Try to convince Otto that the match is advantageous, given that Daemon has been all but committing treason already, and that you need to focus on checking the Sea Snakes power more directly. Promise Otto to support his cause, once you sit on the Small Council.
    -[X] Agree to support their efforts in exchange for favors (Select as many as you want but they will likely refuse if too much is demanded)
    --[X] Set up a treaty concerning the succession, clearly stating that you are the heiress to the Iron Throne ahead of all children from a second marriage, and those in turn are ahead of Daemon and any other claimants.
    --[X] Lord Corlys agrees to support your efforts to attain a seat on the Small Council
    [X] Plan: Political Marriage is Both our Duties
    -[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
    -[X] Try to convince him to help convince your father to choose another bride
    --[X] If your father is going to marry for the good of the realm, then it should bring the realm something: Propose Deria Martell as a match.
    -[x] Try and convince them to drop offer with Laena and have Laenor marry you instead (Will increase Stress if they accept)
    --[X] Lord Corlys agrees to support your efforts to attain a seat on the Small Council
    [X] Plan Commit To Your Choices
    -[X] Matters of Law and Coin
    -[X] Otto: Try to convince him to help convince your father to choose another bride.
    -[X] Corlys: [Defiant] None, instead decry both of them for using their daughter in such an abhorrent manner. They are her parents, they should not be selling her like a piece of meat.
    [X] Plan: The Dragonriders' Compromise
    -[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
    -[X] Write-In: Try to convince him to help convince your father to choose Johanna Westerling, Sabitha Vypren, or Deria Martell.
    -[x] Try and convince them to drop offer with Laena and have Laenor marry you instead (Will increase Stress if they accept)
    [X] Plan: Political Marriage is our Duty
    -[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
    -[X] Try to convince him to help delay your father's decision on who he should marry.
    -[x] Try and convince them to drop offer with Laena and have Laenor marry you instead (Will increase Stress if they accept)
    --[X] Lord Corlys agrees to support your efforts to attain a seat on the Small Council
    [X] Plan Chaos is a Ladder
    -[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
    -[x] Purpose an alliance with Otto, offering to marry his son Gwayne (Will increase Stress if Otto accepts)
    -[x] Try and convince them to drop offer with Laena and have Laenor marry you instead (Will increase Stress if they accept)
    [X] Plan Take Your Time
    -[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
    -[X] Try to convince him to help delay your father's decision on who he should marry.
    -[X] Make no firm offers but remain civil
    [X] Plan Continuing To Ruin Alicent's Life
    -[X] The Seven Pointed Star (Improves Relationship with Alicent)
    -[x] Purpose an alliance with Otto, offering to marry his son Gwayne (Will increase Stress if Otto accepts)
    -[X] [Defiant] None, instead decry both of them for using their daughter in such an abhorrent manner. They are her parents, they should not be selling her like a piece of meat.
Click to expand...
 
[X] Plan: Second Mother to Our Siblings
I like what this offers, so I'll vote while I still have the time.
 
Even with a betrothal of a few years I'm still not to in favor of a marriage between Laena and Viserys for the reasons we discussed, since it doesn't seem like it'd really solve the issue of the succession crisis between Laena's soms and us even if it gave us some more time.

If we feel we really must have a marriage alliance with the Velaryons then I'd just prefer biting the bullet and marrying Laenor ourself, though I'd still prefer to wait a bit and see if we can meet him first so we can feel out whether he'd be willing to get us with child, but I'm not sure about insisting that Viserys specifically marry the Dornish match like Elder's plan has it.
 
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[X] Plan: Second Mother to Our Siblings
[X] Plan: Political Marriage is Both our Duties

Don't really think Otto will be amenable to a Martell marriage, seeing as how the southern Reach has bad history with the Dornish. Wished the plan had something to bribe him with, but oh well.
 
Fanhunter696 said:
Well, a formal betrothal is a very serious compromise, and in the case of a girl Laena's age is is both understandable and tasteful to wait for a few years...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Agreed, and I'm not sure how you'd work it into a vote or like if Rhaenyra is willing to or would ever mentally contemplate it, but her mother/the former Queen Aemma Arryn, (also Aemma's mother) is a pretty damn good argument for maybe fucking wait if you want your daughter to like actually live. Shit even if you don't care about something as silly as that, these marriages don't exactly show a good history of producing kids.
 
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    Adhoc vote count started by Teen Spirit on Aug 13, 2024 at 12:52 PM, finished with 203 posts and 49 votes.
    • [X] Plan: Second Mother to Our Siblings
      -[X] Matters of Law and Coin
      -[X] Try to convince him to support a marriage alliance with the Velaryons, but delayed. We need their dragons as a hedge against Daemon. Considering Laena's age, a betrothal while delaying the actual marriage for four years is reasonable. It will give your father time to grieve, and it will ensure that you will be 19 years older than any siblings, allowing you to marry your children to them if Laena has children, avoiding any future dynastic conflicts.
      -[X] Agree to support their efforts in exchange for favors (Select as many as you want but they will likely refuse if too much is demanded)
      --[X] They agree to delay any marriage for four years. This is far safer for Laena than trying to have children too young. It also allows Viserys time to grieve, making him more likely to agree.
      --[X] They agree to support your inheritance to the throne, and you agree to wed your heir to a child of either Laena or Laenor's. (If you have no children, of course you will name a sibling heir).
      --[X] Lord Corlys agrees to support your efforts to attain a seat on the Small Council
      [X] Plan The Conciliator
      -[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
      -[X] Try to convince him to help convince your father to choose another bride
      -[X] Make no firm offers but remain civil
      [X] Plan Not Great, Not Terrible
      -[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
      -[X] Try to convince Otto that the match is advantageous, given that Daemon has been all but committing treason already, and that you need to focus on checking the Sea Snakes power more directly. Promise Otto to support his cause, once you sit on the Small Council.
      -[X] Agree to support their efforts in exchange for favors (Select as many as you want but they will likely refuse if too much is demanded)
      --[X] Set up a treaty concerning the succession, clearly stating that you are the heiress to the Iron Throne ahead of all children from a second marriage, and those in turn are ahead of Daemon and any other claimants.
      --[X] Lord Corlys agrees to support your efforts to attain a seat on the Small Council
      [X] Plan: Political Marriage is Both our Duties
      -[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
      -[X] Try to convince him to help convince your father to choose another bride
      --[X] If your father is going to marry for the good of the realm, then it should bring the realm something: Propose Deria Martell as a match.
      -[x] Try and convince them to drop offer with Laena and have Laenor marry you instead (Will increase Stress if they accept)
      --[X] Lord Corlys agrees to support your efforts to attain a seat on the Small Council
      [X] Plan Commit To Your Choices
      -[X] Matters of Law and Coin
      -[X] Otto: Try to convince him to help convince your father to choose another bride.
      -[X] Corlys: [Defiant] None, instead decry both of them for using their daughter in such an abhorrent manner. They are her parents, they should not be selling her like a piece of meat.
      [X] Plan: The Dragonriders' Compromise
      -[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
      -[X] Write-In: Try to convince him to help convince your father to choose Johanna Westerling, Sabitha Vypren, or Deria Martell.
      -[x] Try and convince them to drop offer with Laena and have Laenor marry you instead (Will increase Stress if they accept)
      [X] Plan: Political Marriage is our Duty
      -[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
      -[X] Try to convince him to help delay your father's decision on who he should marry.
      -[x] Try and convince them to drop offer with Laena and have Laenor marry you instead (Will increase Stress if they accept)
      --[X] Lord Corlys agrees to support your efforts to attain a seat on the Small Council
      [X] Plan Take Your Time
      -[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
      -[X] Try to convince him to help delay your father's decision on who he should marry.
      -[X] Make no firm offers but remain civil
      [X] Plan Continuing To Ruin Alicent's Life
      -[X] The Seven Pointed Star (Improves Relationship with Alicent)
      -[x] Purpose an alliance with Otto, offering to marry his son Gwayne (Will increase Stress if Otto accepts)
      -[X] [Defiant] None, instead decry both of them for using their daughter in such an abhorrent manner. They are her parents, they should not be selling her like a piece of meat.
      [X] Plan Chaos is a Ladder
      -[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
      -[x] Purpose an alliance with Otto, offering to marry his son Gwayne (Will increase Stress if Otto accepts)
      -[x] Try and convince them to drop offer with Laena and have Laenor marry you instead (Will increase Stress if they accept)
    Click to expand...
     
    Last edited:
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