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The Heir of the Dragon: A Rhaenyra Targaryen Quest

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Annatar said:
We can be in lesbians later, now is time for securing our political future so we don't have to deal with a possible civil war or succession crisis down the line while we're in lesbians.
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Allicent will be married and with kids soon enough, if we don't stake our interest. Now is the time for the folly of youth.
 
I still don't think we have to agree to either match with Corlys this turn, like in canon Viserys didn't take the Laena option on his own, so us giving him other option would probably convince him pretty easily, and for the Laenor match, even if we take it, we can easily wait the two extra years it took to happen in canon (not to mention that Visrys forced the marriage issue only after the scandal with Criston and Daemon, which is almost definitely butterflied.

I honestly think that helping Corlys get the brown's help with the Stepstones would be a way better way for us to patch things over with him on the short term, before our marriage will have to be determined.
 
Imperious said:
Honestly this would all be a lot easier if we could just find Adam of Hull:V
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I don't know man. Rhaenyra and Joffrey in the same room, both muscular, both tall, both wearing a full suit of armor except the groin part. Some hand stuff, give Laenor a silk blindfold, don't know which is which for a moment, bada-bing bada-boom money shot see ya next week. Fist bump Joffrey on the way out and go for a shower with Alicent. It's full-proof.
 
Alpaca27 said:
Honestly I kinda hate the Find True Love trait that was taken at the beginning. Feels like a needless debuff and Stress inducer. Combined with some voters' interest in Alicent, a straight up gay relationship as if we weren't facing enough hurdles, and I'm kinda checked out of the whole 'wanna find true love' goal. Hope we can just reduce stress with riding around on Syrax and becoming a knight instead.
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And this is exactly why that system exists.

Because if it did not, then people would eliminate every intersting character trait in the name of optimization.
 
For what it's worth, both here and in CK3 taking stress options is very much expected, it just requires a bit of weighing it beforehand.
 
[X] Plan The Conciliator
-[X] Diplomacy and Etiquette
-[X] Try to convince him to help convince your father to choose another bride
-[X] Make no firm offers but remain civil
 
Anyway even if we do marry Laenor at some point we don't have to do it now. We could for example do it later after we've already talked to him and broached the topic of whether he'd be able to bring himself to sire with us heirs to the throne and to Driftmark or whether he'd be counting on us to bring someone else to do it because he doesn't intend to.
 
Alpaca27 said:
While it is all a bit of a crap-shoot once Viserys dies, having his son be from a house as powerful and influential as the Velaryons or the Hightowers is just asking for that son to start some shit.

That's why I feel getting Viserys to marry a Dornish princess would be so beneficial. North and the Vale are basically on lock for Rhaenyra. (North for the ride or die oaths, and the Vale because Jeyne is both a cousin and woman) Sons of a Dornish women would never get the support of the Reach or Stormlands. Riverlands aren't backing an underdog for no reason.


If we want to make sure we remain the favored heir in the minds of all Westeros, even after a son is born to Viserys, we just have to absolutely cripple any opportunity for the son to gain allies in the first place. Which will happen, just by being born Dornish.
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Hrm, I have to Press X to doubt on the North thing, Ned is Ned he isn't carbon copy of his ancestors. Starks are fuedal overlords with the wide variety of personalities and tendencies that entails. I think trying to hamstring any potential half-siblings is valid, but it I do think there is a legit concern with people being exasperated enough to turn towards Daemon and/or the Velaryons outright. And Viserys marring a literal "who?" seems so obvious of a shut out, I see the Velaryons pretty much throwing up their hands to commit to an outright civil war vs continuing to be ignored.

Imperious said:
Yes. As one can see from that, people who felt that they didn't want to have Rhaenyra as queen would not have her as such, and having their oaths in writing would not have changed that or stopped them from inventing some figleaf to that end.
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Imperious said:
We already have their oaths though. Nobody in canon rebelled against Rhaenyra because they claimed those oaths never happened due to lack of written evidence. They just invented some excuse or another on why those oaths no longer applied. How does getting those same oaths in writing change that?
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Eh the spoken oaths were done specifically in the context of Rhaenyra being Viserys' only living kid and there's a lot to say that obviously per natural law it became invalid when another living kid, a boy, was produced. I think a written document that specifically lays out this circumstance could be helpful since not even Westerosi lords actually have everything done via pure verbal means. Also hypothetically having it done this early and being "established fact" for a decade or so provides more social weight than idk, something that Ned produced last minute from a clearly dying man. There are no guarantees only trying to get elements to nudge things Rhaenyra's way.

veteranMortal said:
Honestly I think the best match for Viserys is, like, some literal who. Sabitha Vypren works because like... who's rising for House Vypren? Cmon now.
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I honestly think that's part of the problem. She's so obviously a non-entity that there's not really an excuse Viserys can provide for "why her?" Like doing this is pretty much slapping the Velaryons in the face going "neerenneerrr no throne for you ever," and while yes that kinda is the endgoal for a lot of people, being so blatantly slamming the door in their face at this juncture seems prone to having them decide to start taking nuclear options.

[X] Plan: The Dragonriders' Compromise
[X] Plan Not Great, Not Terrible
[X] Plan Commit To Your Choices
 
A_Somebody said:
Hrm, I have to Press X to doubt on the North thing, Ned is Ned he isn't carbon copy of his ancestors. Starks are fuedal overlords with the wide variety of personalities and tendencies that entails. I think trying to hamstring any potential half-siblings is valid, but it I do think there is a legit concern with people being exasperated enough to turn towards Daemon and/or the Velaryons outright. And Viserys marring a literal "who?" seems so obvious of a shut out, I see the Velaryons pretty much throwing up their hands to commit to an outright civil war vs continuing to be ignored.




Eh the spoken oaths were done specifically in the context of Rhaenyra being Viserys' only living kid and there's a lot to say that obviously per natural law it became invalid when another living kid, a boy, was produced.
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In that case why not ask Viserys to have the lords swear their oaths again when our brother is born? The inspiration for Viserys, Henry I, had the English lords swear their oaths to his heiress multiple times. Not that it helped much in the end, but it would assauge this worry at least.
 
A_Somebody said:
Hrm, I have to Press X to doubt on the North thing, Ned is Ned he isn't carbon copy of his ancestors. Starks are fuedal overlords with the wide variety of personalities and tendencies that entails. I think trying to hamstring any potential half-siblings is valid, but it I do think there is a legit concern with people being exasperated enough to turn towards Daemon and/or the Velaryons outright. And Viserys marring a literal "who?" seems so obvious of a shut out, I see the Velaryons pretty much throwing up their hands to commit to an outright civil war vs continuing to be ignored.
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The North immediately responded with loyalty to their oaths when a son was sent there, which is more than I can say for the likes of Boremund Baratheon. Cregan Stark straight up says that "Starks do not forget their oaths" I think we're set.

A Dornish princess is far from being some nobody, especially if it gives us a valuable military alliance to settle the Stepstones.

And again, saying that the Velaryons are going to cause an outright civil war before they, I don't know, aim for a marriage with Rhaenyra, heir-apparent, is doomposting. Viserys rejected Laena in canon too, basically spitting in Corlys' face and all Corlys did was sulk a bit and throw a small fit, fighting with Daemon in the Stepstones.
 
I do think the Tyrells are an interesting option though. They're a powerful house and they'll be able to afford a lot of support to our half siblings in a usurpation attempt, however so short after the conquest the Tyrells are still kind of disdained by the great houses of the reach as upjumped stewards who were given the position of lord paramount unjustly given how many other reach houses had better ties to the Oaken throne. I could see Otto for example coming to support our succession due to not wanting his house overlords to have the throne as could Reach houses such as the Florents and the Hightowers. If war were to come between our half siblings and us we could then offer the Hightowers the paramountcy in return for opposing the Tyrells.
 
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[X] Plan Not Great, Not Terrible

[X] Plan: Second Mother to Our Siblings

[X] Plan: Political Marriage is Both our Duties

[X] Plan: The Dragonriders' Compromise
 
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Imperious said:
I do think the Tyrells are an interesting option though. They're a powerful house and they'll be able to afford a lot of support to our half siblings in a usurpation attempt, however so short after the conquest the Tyrells are still kind of disdained by the great houses of the reach as upjumped stewards who were given the position of lord paramount unjustly given how many other reach houses had better ties to the Oaken throne. I could see Otto for example coming to support our succession due to not wanting his house overlords to have the throne as could Reach houses such as the Florents and the Hightowers. If war were to come between our half siblings and us we could then offer the Hightowers the paramountcy in return for opposing the Tyrells.
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Honestly, if Viserys dies at the same time as canon, the Tyrells are gonna be ruled by an infant lord, and I don't see his regents starting a civil war for a distant cousin. Maybe if she was a closer relation, but not such a tenuous one.
 
Also here's the wiki page of Johanna Lannister, nee Westerling. Canonically she ends up being the wife of Jason Lannister. House Westerling aren't very powerful, but she's very fierce, having acted as regent for her five years old son during which she commanded the defeat of an Ironborn invasion of the Westerlands. Had one of the Greyjoys castarated and made into a fool to serve her son. She'd probably get along very well with this iteration of Rhaenyra at start, but would likely be willing to fight very hard to put her son on the throne given how fierce she was in fighting for her son's own in canon.
 
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