- Location
- Middle-Earth
It's not like Kairos has suddenly discovered a pressing need to raise every defense he has, upgrade them as best he can, and try to invent new ones or anything.
A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)
I think you're underestimating the amount of high priority items that we have added to Fateweaver's to-do list. The premature exposure of the Eye of Tzeentch has undoubtedly thrown his plans into disarray. Just about every plan he has that involves his personal intervention in the Materium near Aeldari areas of operations needs to be reevaluated. The later in the timeframe he appears, the more likely we'll have figured out a way to use his presence to end the Curse. Kairos will probably be busy reworking plots for quite a while.
That's before factoring in the new plots Fateweaver's no doubt been forced to implement courtesy of the Aeldmoot. The Eye of Tzeentch was not designed to stand against attempts to disrupt it while it is this weak.
The main thing is that we have a big health warning above the Scrying options warning us of the risk that Kairos may intervene to dick with us of we Scry.
We're voting to Scry someone who may be particularly vulnerable to being dicked with right now, as they're in the Webway which Kairos can access more easily than locations in the Materium.
We're also voting to Scry when we know that people who aren't so high up Kairos' shit list are also Scrying, so we know we can let them do it with less risk of triggering him to want to screw us in particular.
This seems like a time when it's both particularly likely that the risk we're explicitly warned out will be triggered, and when we don't need to take this additional risk, because someone else is already looking.
Scrying is something we should generally be very hesitant about if not avoid by default given it's literally got a health warning on, and this is one of the worst use cases for it.
There've been a lot of arguments made above that the QM's warnings somehow doesn't count because Kairos should have higher priorities or should be too busy to mess with us. If that's the case, why does the action come with a health warning then? Is Mechanis wrong that it's a risk we should take into account?
I think it's quite likely that screwing over what we care about is right on the top of his priority list.
And he's also, as we've seen in the previous update to this one, spiteful to the degree that he's willing to destroy a valuable asset of his own for literally no benefit beyond indulging his annoyance. So, he clearly doesn't care that much about his to do list.
Also, I don't think we know that Warp entities have meaningful limits on their mental bandwidth. They have limited resources they can deploy, but they may well be capable of sustaining a very large number of simultaneous trains of thought.
Lastly, Nacreteini probably isn't in the Materium.
Or send some of the Tzeentchian daemons in the Webway to attack Nacretinei. That probably costs him nearly nothing. It's not as if they die if they're killed.
This is a terrible time to scry Nacreteini as he's likely the most pissed off with us that he'll be in the foreseeable future and so most willing to invest resources to spite us if he learns we care.
The fact that he's survived for millions of years when super-powered Eldar with daemon killing weapons and psyker powers would probably love to hunt him down and mount his stuffed corpse on their mantlepiece for bragging rights/for the lulz suggests to me that his defences are probably pretty good.
Sure, Aresh-Vul says it's possible to drag him out of the Warp and banish him again, but if it was easy, why didn't he or one of the quintillions of bored Eldar who were hungry for a challenge do it thirty years ago? Why are there any Exalted Greater Daemons around if the Eldar can summon and kill them without immense effort?
Kairos' defences were clearly good enough to prevent the Pre-Fall Eldar together with their gods killing him, despite us being told that Tzeentch was actively at war with multiple gods of the Eldar Pantheon, neither the Pre-Fall, or even the Pre-Fall pre-decadence Eldar could kill him. I'd expect his defences are good enough that he doesn't have to worry that much about the Post-Fall Eldar in the immediate term, even if it's a long term thing he has to address.
We're voting to Scry someone who may be particularly vulnerable to being dicked with right now, as they're in the Webway which Kairos can access more easily than locations in the Materium.
We're also voting to Scry when we know that people who aren't so high up Kairos' shit list are also Scrying, so we know we can let them do it with less risk of triggering him to want to screw us in particular.
This seems like a time when it's both particularly likely that the risk we're explicitly warned out will be triggered, and when we don't need to take this additional risk, because someone else is already looking.
Scrying is something we should generally be very hesitant about if not avoid by default given it's literally got a health warning on, and this is one of the worst use cases for it.
There've been a lot of arguments made above that the QM's warnings somehow doesn't count because Kairos should have higher priorities or should be too busy to mess with us. If that's the case, why does the action come with a health warning then? Is Mechanis wrong that it's a risk we should take into account?
I think it's quite likely that screwing over what we care about is right on the top of his priority list.
And he's also, as we've seen in the previous update to this one, spiteful to the degree that he's willing to destroy a valuable asset of his own for literally no benefit beyond indulging his annoyance. So, he clearly doesn't care that much about his to do list.
Also, I don't think we know that Warp entities have meaningful limits on their mental bandwidth. They have limited resources they can deploy, but they may well be capable of sustaining a very large number of simultaneous trains of thought.
Lastly, Nacreteini probably isn't in the Materium.
Or send some of the Tzeentchian daemons in the Webway to attack Nacretinei. That probably costs him nearly nothing. It's not as if they die if they're killed.
This is a terrible time to scry Nacreteini as he's likely the most pissed off with us that he'll be in the foreseeable future and so most willing to invest resources to spite us if he learns we care.
The fact that he's survived for millions of years when super-powered Eldar with daemon killing weapons and psyker powers would probably love to hunt him down and mount his stuffed corpse on their mantlepiece for bragging rights/for the lulz suggests to me that his defences are probably pretty good.
Sure, Aresh-Vul says it's possible to drag him out of the Warp and banish him again, but if it was easy, why didn't he or one of the quintillions of bored Eldar who were hungry for a challenge do it thirty years ago? Why are there any Exalted Greater Daemons around if the Eldar can summon and kill them without immense effort?
Kairos' defences were clearly good enough to prevent the Pre-Fall Eldar together with their gods killing him, despite us being told that Tzeentch was actively at war with multiple gods of the Eldar Pantheon, neither the Pre-Fall, or even the Pre-Fall pre-decadence Eldar could kill him. I'd expect his defences are good enough that he doesn't have to worry that much about the Post-Fall Eldar in the immediate term, even if it's a long term thing he has to address.
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[x] Plan The Power of ONLY Industry Memes
-[X] [Steward] Move Existing Councils (5 AP)
-[X] [Steward] Manage Diplomatic Affairs (2 AP)
-[x][BONESINGER] Enhance Industry (1st)(3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns, each)
-[x][BONESINGER] Enhance Industry (2nd)(3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns, each)
-[x][BONESINGER] Enhance Industry (3rd)(3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns, each)
-[x][BONESINGER] Enhance Industry (4th)(3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns, each)
-[x][BONESINGER] Continue ship repair (1 point) [Strongly recommended]
-[x][BONESINGER] Continue ship refits (1 point)
-[x][BONESINGER] Develop Basic Grenades (1 AP)
-[x][FORGE] Aid Enhance Industry (Twice)
-[X][SEER] Two Scry The Present Options--One to scry the current paths to Nacretinei, one to search for our brother's people (2 AP)
-[x][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch x1 (2 AP)
-[x][SEER] Raise a Bladedance Troupe (1 point per turn, 4 turns)
-[X] [Seer] Raise a Seeing Circle (2 AP)
-[x][SEER] Develop Witchblades (3 AP & any 6 Psyker units required for initial, ?? turns)
-[x][SEEKER] Perfect Hybridization (6 AP, ?? turns)
-[x][SEEKER] Haywire Guns (2 AP/turn, ?? turns)
-[x][SEEKER] Haywire Bombs (4 AP/turn, 3-5 turns)
-[X][WARRIOR] Organize Troops (2 AP, Repeatable)
-[X] [WARRIOR] Commission Strike Craft (1 AP) Light Fighter
-[X] [WARRIOR] Commission Strike Craft (1 AP) Heavy Bomber/Assault Shuttle
-[X][WARRIOR] Design a Light Capital (Cruiser or Light Cruiser) (2 AP)
-[X][WARRIOR] Design a Heavy Capital (Grand Cruiser or Battleship) (3 AP)
-[X][WARRIOR] Develop Refit Profiles (3 AP, 1 AP each) (Refit our existing elites with better armor, or refit the militia with needlers and better armor?)
-[X][WARRIOR] Deploy forces to conduct an exploration and salvage mission in the Kronite System
--[X] Send 1 Combat Brig, 4 Battle Carracks, 10 Assault Ketches, and 20 Lance Sloops, Zahr-Tann's 15th Scout Fleet is to assist as they are able and provide early warning in case any local Problems decide to start coming our way.
--[X] 2nd Heavy Militia is to accompany as security forces for the expedition
---[X] This is not to be a combat operation despite the forces being deployed, our objective is to salvage any artifacts from the human wreckage that may provide useful insights for our own Seekers, sure, it's crude and poorly developed--but the core principles are still useful, and we're hardly in a position to be picky for sources of how to rebuild our forge-craft without the blessings of the Phoenix Court. Withdraw if there is any significant risk of sustaining damage.
-[X][WARRIOR] Deploy 2 Scouting Fleets from Zahr-Tann's forces to assist in scouting the regional Webway.
-[X][WARRIOR] Have 4 Combat Brigs, 12 Battle Carracks, and 20 War Ketches accompany the 3rd and 5th Scout Fleets, the 3rd Heavy Fleet, and the 6th Line Fleet of Zahr-Tann, they are to serve as a Liberation/Rescue/Search force for Nacretinei once we've coordinated with their allies and gathered the data we can.
--[X] They are additionally to be accompanied by the Vaul-Hammer Warhost and the Grand Warcasting Circle of Vau-Vulkesh, as well as the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Battle and Line Hosts of Zahr-Tann, ideally we don't need the military strength, but it's better to have it and not need it. If further Reinforcements are required, they can be transported through the Webway Gates on our Brigs.
Some people complain there is not a plan that does 4 increase industry actions. This plan does that. This plan will *always* maximize increase industry actions. From now until the end of the game, I swear to always include this memeplan, every single turn.
-[X] [Steward] Move Existing Councils (5 AP)
-[X] [Steward] Manage Diplomatic Affairs (2 AP)
-[x][BONESINGER] Enhance Industry (1st)(3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns, each)
-[x][BONESINGER] Enhance Industry (2nd)(3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns, each)
-[x][BONESINGER] Enhance Industry (3rd)(3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns, each)
-[x][BONESINGER] Enhance Industry (4th)(3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns, each)
-[x][BONESINGER] Continue ship repair (1 point) [Strongly recommended]
-[x][BONESINGER] Continue ship refits (1 point)
-[x][BONESINGER] Develop Basic Grenades (1 AP)
-[x][FORGE] Aid Enhance Industry (Twice)
-[X][SEER] Two Scry The Present Options--One to scry the current paths to Nacretinei, one to search for our brother's people (2 AP)
-[x][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch x1 (2 AP)
-[x][SEER] Raise a Bladedance Troupe (1 point per turn, 4 turns)
-[X] [Seer] Raise a Seeing Circle (2 AP)
-[x][SEER] Develop Witchblades (3 AP & any 6 Psyker units required for initial, ?? turns)
-[x][SEEKER] Perfect Hybridization (6 AP, ?? turns)
-[x][SEEKER] Haywire Guns (2 AP/turn, ?? turns)
-[x][SEEKER] Haywire Bombs (4 AP/turn, 3-5 turns)
-[X][WARRIOR] Organize Troops (2 AP, Repeatable)
-[X] [WARRIOR] Commission Strike Craft (1 AP) Light Fighter
-[X] [WARRIOR] Commission Strike Craft (1 AP) Heavy Bomber/Assault Shuttle
-[X][WARRIOR] Design a Light Capital (Cruiser or Light Cruiser) (2 AP)
-[X][WARRIOR] Design a Heavy Capital (Grand Cruiser or Battleship) (3 AP)
-[X][WARRIOR] Develop Refit Profiles (3 AP, 1 AP each) (Refit our existing elites with better armor, or refit the militia with needlers and better armor?)
-[X][WARRIOR] Deploy forces to conduct an exploration and salvage mission in the Kronite System
--[X] Send 1 Combat Brig, 4 Battle Carracks, 10 Assault Ketches, and 20 Lance Sloops, Zahr-Tann's 15th Scout Fleet is to assist as they are able and provide early warning in case any local Problems decide to start coming our way.
--[X] 2nd Heavy Militia is to accompany as security forces for the expedition
---[X] This is not to be a combat operation despite the forces being deployed, our objective is to salvage any artifacts from the human wreckage that may provide useful insights for our own Seekers, sure, it's crude and poorly developed--but the core principles are still useful, and we're hardly in a position to be picky for sources of how to rebuild our forge-craft without the blessings of the Phoenix Court. Withdraw if there is any significant risk of sustaining damage.
-[X][WARRIOR] Deploy 2 Scouting Fleets from Zahr-Tann's forces to assist in scouting the regional Webway.
-[X][WARRIOR] Have 4 Combat Brigs, 12 Battle Carracks, and 20 War Ketches accompany the 3rd and 5th Scout Fleets, the 3rd Heavy Fleet, and the 6th Line Fleet of Zahr-Tann, they are to serve as a Liberation/Rescue/Search force for Nacretinei once we've coordinated with their allies and gathered the data we can.
--[X] They are additionally to be accompanied by the Vaul-Hammer Warhost and the Grand Warcasting Circle of Vau-Vulkesh, as well as the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Battle and Line Hosts of Zahr-Tann, ideally we don't need the military strength, but it's better to have it and not need it. If further Reinforcements are required, they can be transported through the Webway Gates on our Brigs.
Some people complain there is not a plan that does 4 increase industry actions. This plan does that. This plan will *always* maximize increase industry actions. From now until the end of the game, I swear to always include this memeplan, every single turn.
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
Why is the webway easier for Kairos? It's Slaanesh that has a webway key, not Tzeentch?
- Pronouns
- Reader
In the end, I don't know whether Kaeros will or won't interfere, but I also don't know whether or not we'll actually need scrying, or whether it will be that helpful with our supposition Nacretinei maybe stranded or lost in the webway. In the end, it feels like if we are going to scry in regards to this questline, it should come when seer circle is done, after we've left the scrying to the other craft worlds and left the work to our many naval vessels for this turn and turn 6 at worst.
I take Kaeros's inability to react despite his wrath a case of him having already committed available resources elsewhere and needing effort to extract them to retaliate. on a more personal level however, should he become invested in thwarting our attempt to aid in the search for Nacretinei, he may be able to expend some small effort at Psyker casting to interfere subtly.
I think the problem is that webway is in fluctuation as two gods strain there control against each other, leaving it more vulnerable to infiltration by daemons. besides that, many a daemon chased craftworld into the webway from the Crone worlds and may still be roaming inside it.
I take Kaeros's inability to react despite his wrath a case of him having already committed available resources elsewhere and needing effort to extract them to retaliate. on a more personal level however, should he become invested in thwarting our attempt to aid in the search for Nacretinei, he may be able to expend some small effort at Psyker casting to interfere subtly.
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[x] Plan The Power of ONLY Industry Memes
Meme's! The DNA of the soul!
Meme's! The DNA of the soul!
RandomTechPriest
He Who Steals Toasters
I was originally against Perfect Hybridization, but ive slowly been convinced. While I do believe the concerns around Starcrystal use are over exaggerated, PH Grav-weapons are an ideal weapon for future Ketch / Light Cruiser designs. Plus, im hoping we can negate the main disadvantage of these weapons (the massive power use) by integrating them directly into future Ithilmar suit designs using weapon hardpoints.
- Location
- Somewhere Beyond the Sea
I'm thinking for next turn we start bringing some more foundries online (we'll be getting +1BAP next turn so the total is now 16)
So probably something like this to establish our baseline troopers (turn after that would probably be vehicle foundries maybe?)
[ ] Weapon Forge (Sunblaster Rifle) (2 points each)
[ ] Armor Foundry (VGW) (2 points each)
[ ] Armour Foundry (Energy Dispersion Barrier) (2 points each)
Totalling it all together (and assuming we don't get anything shiny that distracts us) we'd have 7-8 BAP to throw around, but would also give us a consistent trickle of infantry shields, VGA and plasma rifles to work with (pair them up in a squad with a few needlers and we'd get a pretty good anti GEQ/MEQ squad to work with)
So probably something like this to establish our baseline troopers (turn after that would probably be vehicle foundries maybe?)
[ ] Weapon Forge (Sunblaster Rifle) (2 points each)
[ ] Armor Foundry (VGW) (2 points each)
[ ] Armour Foundry (Energy Dispersion Barrier) (2 points each)
Totalling it all together (and assuming we don't get anything shiny that distracts us) we'd have 7-8 BAP to throw around, but would also give us a consistent trickle of infantry shields, VGA and plasma rifles to work with (pair them up in a squad with a few needlers and we'd get a pretty good anti GEQ/MEQ squad to work with)
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
There's a good chance that we'll have 2 BAP locked in on Seer Circle next turn since it's 3-5 turns in duration and the Forge use on it only gets -1d3 turns. There's also a good chance that we'll commit BAP to Stel-Uit via diplomatic action this turn, in which case we'll probably have a 2 BAP option to start on those repairs, like we do with each batch of repairs for Quilan. Between those and the need to keep Arach-Qin and Quilan's fleet repairs/refits rolling, we can probably anticipate having ~10 BAP free for allocation. Foundries aren't necessarily a bad way to allocate them, but I would expect at least one industrial growth action in all plans from now until forever just because it's crazy to not keep exponential growth rolling. That plus three foundries would leave us with very, very little room to spare.
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
I would say that 6 AP on industry would be enough, leaving 4 AP for a sunblaster forge and void guard armor foundry
- Pronouns
- Reader
I feel mostly the same, especially since that gives us two obvious actions to put the forge of Vaul on, except I think we should go conversion field instead of sunblaster. We can give our conversion field to even militia if we get enough foundries built, which would make up for their lack of other defensive options, but we already have a fairly good rifle in the high rate of fire and good penetration needler rifles.
- Location
- Utrecht
Probably a self requested ban.
Edit: It was apparently not a self requested ban.
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We need to find out if foundries are static output, or scale with BAP, or scale with amount of foundries for an item we have, or have enhancement actions. My bunch is we want army in the 0.1-1% of population ballpark, and that means like 100 millions EP. We'd need to hit exponential returns to make that happen.
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
One thing I will note is that I just went through and calculated how many needlers we need to replace all our las weapons, in all detachments. The total comes out to:
1274 Needler Rifles
1304 Needler Carbines
900 Needler pistols (Note, some militia assault detachments have 4 flame pistols and a starblaster pistol instead of 5 las pistols, but I didn't account for that)
So it is going to take just over 4 turns (21.25 years) for our one needler rifle weapon forge to replace all the las-rifles, and that doesn't even address carbines (although 1 forge of vaul activation could produce 1250 needler carbines)
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Plan The Power of Industry
[X] Plan: The Dawn of a New Day
[X] Plan: The Dawn of a New Day
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I think these should be spike carbines instead, and bikes need to be refit/replaced as well. As is our militia jetbikes squads are near useless.
These are mostly vehicle crews, we don't really need to bother with them tbh. Will refit whole vehicles with crews in due time.
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
No, the las-pistols are carried by militia assault troops (The only vehicles where crew have weapons are attack barges and jet-bikes). The bikes shouldn't get spike carbines IMO, Mechanis said that Spike carbines fire as fast as a bolt action rifle, and when you are riding a jet-bike you want to be able to spray n' pray, not have to aim each shot.
The jet bikes aren't super useful, but I see no reason to get rid of them from existing militia detachments. If nothing else they can harass and distract enemy forces, and its not like they really have upkeep.
- Pronouns
- Reader
Not quite. Remember they'll scale with BAP. Currently we are producing 60 per year with a foundry and 15 BAP. That's about 4 per BAP. If next turn we have 320 production that will confirm it. It matches up with the brigantine armor too. So production facilities produce 1/40 of the EP worth of the BAP invested, multiplied by our Base Current BAP.
We are in a lull. Few to no threats, and Zahr-Tann would be responsible for the bearing the brunt of any real threat. We'll certainly get a sunblaster built before turn 8. Either way, it should work out.
We don't have a needle carbine forge. Only rifles.
Also, it occurs to me we should finish Replacing Power distribution, so maybe go with just Conversion Field Barrier Generator foundry next turn unless seer circle completes.
No, it lists them as needler carbines in wargear.
We are 500 pages in, referring to them this way the entire time, so it's much to late for a change.
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- Location
- Seattle, Washington
No, spike carbines are a seperate thing.
Needlers have multiple small barrels and rapid fire, Spike weapons have 1 big barrel but bolt-action rate of fire.
@Mechanis Part of Militia Heavy Detachments item counts in the armory seem off: Specifically the following:
Las Carbines: 32
Jet Bikes: 24
Based on their description, there should be 3 militia jet-bike squads with 6 las-carbines and 6 jet-bikes per squad (18 las-carbines and 18 jet-bikes), so I don't know where the extra las-carbines and jetbikes are from
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- Location
- Seattle, Washington
They don't exist yet, I don't know if they will eventually exist. Aspect warriors haven't been "developed" yet as far as I know
- Location
- Utrecht
The Paths as we know them are currently still being refined, and are currently even more strict than the Canon version.
The Phoenix lords should be alive right now as regular eldar badasses, but aren't multiple lives into their serial reincarnations. They might not be on the eldar paths either.
We will not use the Paths of Asuryan so aspect warriors and shrines are probably off the table for us.