- Location
- Utrecht
I'm hoping it helps Aresh Vul get a little less depressed and unlock him as a crafting hero, rather than just a leader.
A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)
- Location
- USA
[X] Alectai
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
I do agree that we want to keep spending AP on industrial expansion, I just think that we don't need more than 1 industrial expansion per turn right now.
Every weapons forge/armor foundry we build produces more than 3 AP per turn of equipment. The sooner we get them online, the more we benefit from them. If we can build enough foundries to not need to spend BAP on making equipment, then that frees the BAP for other tasks
TheParadigm
Stupid Newbie
Mine does!
It just does it in a way(reserving ap that were just gained) that requires good rolls and a cooperative gm, so like, 50/50 an 50/50 make a 25/75.
- Location
- Germany
This kind of makes it clear that you didn't understand the core part here.
Investment into BAP infrastructure gives us more BAP which is what we actually need.
Building foundries currently with the BAP we have is at best a short term fix.
Foundries don't scale on their own.
BAP infrastructure does, and it also then boosts the foundries.
BAP infrastructure is what is used to both build the foundries and then give them in the background a boost.
Foundries just produce weapon but don't actually help you scale your industry or military on their own in a meaningful way without the BAP infrastructure in the background enabling stuff.
tldr:
BAP invested into BAP give more BAP, which then can be used to build more.
BAP invested into foundries doesn't give more BAP, just a certain value of EP in wargear equivalent to using a certain amount of active BAP that can't be used to build more stuff.
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- Location
- Seattle, Washington
Its not like it is all or nothing. We can do both at the same time, even if its slower to scale, and I consider that better because by having the foundries now, we ensure that if something comes up and we need to rapidly expand detachments, we will have a stockpile of equipment from the foundries, massively reducing the amount of BAP we would have to divert from industrial expansion to inefficiently build equipment.
- Location
- Germany
I currently consider 50% on BAP building (rounded down) as pretty much the lower end of the investment we need to do until the EH building cost change from what they currently are to either costing more BAP per or starting to take 4 turns.
While using the other BAP we have to do actually interesting stuff or stuff like the foundries done.
Which is I think a lot more than what other people consider the low end of investment.
Building more BAP infrastructure is just massively better for us than the foundries in regard to actually getting stuff done including getting more gear for anything but a ~8-10 turns window.
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- Pronouns
- Reader
I strongly disagree. at this rate we'll have sign of herald turn 7, which means we'll likely end up with a bunch of bonesinger AP aid actions from agreements we've made turn 8. an extra two AP doesn't seem like much, but ultimately it's what will let us take these aid actions, keep spending BAP on an enhance industry per turn, and pursue other objectives.
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
Well, it seems very likely Plan Dawn of a new Day will win this turn.
So next turn, barring an unlucky roll, we will have 16 BAP
2x industry expansions - 6 AP and 2x forge activation
Continue Seer Circle building - 2 AP
Ship repairs and refits - 2 AP
6 AP avaliable for building forges or engine repairs.
That seems like it would be good to me.
So next turn, barring an unlucky roll, we will have 16 BAP
2x industry expansions - 6 AP and 2x forge activation
Continue Seer Circle building - 2 AP
Ship repairs and refits - 2 AP
6 AP avaliable for building forges or engine repairs.
That seems like it would be good to me.
- Location
- Germany
5 AP most likely because of the 2AP action needed to start the next refit batch.
But otherwise correct.
- Location
- Utrecht
if i understand the system correctly, fixing Stel Uit's navy shouldn't cost any extra AP over and above what we are already putting in for Arach-Qin.
The docks are already running.
The docks are already running.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yeah, there's also a modest chance that we'll one-turn the Seer Circle. Only about a third of the time, but it's still possible if we're lucky.
I just don't feel it's a good idea to assume we can make anything more than broad generalities in advance. The most important thing is maintaining flexibility and steady advancement.
I just don't feel it's a good idea to assume we can make anything more than broad generalities in advance. The most important thing is maintaining flexibility and steady advancement.
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- Location
- Germany
I am talking about the retrofits we have been doing for the exodite world.
Each batch so far has been 2 AP start up action + 1 AP action next turn.
This is the second batch, and we have two more.
- Location
- Utrecht
Isha I hope so, the longer we are without it the more worried I am
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I'm assuming we can reserve them once we've compared notes with the other Craftworlds, just like we could reserve a response force. Though @Mechanis , when you get a second, would you mind confirming if we have to commit our questions now, or if we can reserve the Seers for once we have a better idea of what questions to ask?
- Pronouns
- Kho
[X] Plan: The Dawn of a New Day
- Pronouns
- Reader
there is no harm in moving forward with the intention of approaching turn 6 with a mind to try and fit 6 AP worth of enhance industry in. I imagine shipyards in need of repair aren't a thing just Arach-qin and Stel-Uit are dealing with. knowing we have some extra BAP beyond a single EI per turn will give us some leeway turn 7 when judging what we can handle.
I think in general committing to scrying anything about the situation from the get go is just going to bring more heat onto it Via Kaeros attention. I'd say at least wait until next turn, when we'll both know what we are looking at and have an idea of what kind of progress our fleets can make without it.
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
[x] Plan The Power of Industry
For all the talk about different levels of industry actions, I'm mostly behind this one because it gets me both scrambler and haywire bomb research instead of scrapping one, and also getting an early hull militarization running while we have a breather to burn time on a long-duration project like that seems really useful.
For all the talk about different levels of industry actions, I'm mostly behind this one because it gets me both scrambler and haywire bomb research instead of scrapping one, and also getting an early hull militarization running while we have a breather to burn time on a long-duration project like that seems really useful.
[X] Plan: The Dawn of a New Day
-[X] [Steward] Move Existing Councils (5 AP)
-[X] [Steward] Manage Diplomatic Affairs (2 AP)
-[X][BONESINGER] Replace Primary Power Distribution Control (2 AP)
-[X] [Bonesinger] Enhance Industry (3 AP)
--[X][FORGE] Use the Forge (One Turn Completion)
-[X] [Bonesinger] Seer Circle (4 AP)
--[X][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns)
-[X] [Bonesinger] Continue ship repair (1 AP)
-[X] [Bonesinger] Continue ship refits (1 AP)
-[X][BONESINGER] Develop Basic Grenades (1 AP)
-[X] [Bonesinger] Develop Basic Voidship Torpedos (2 AP)
-[X][BONESINGER] Develop Melta Weapons (1 AP)
-[X][SEER] Two Scrying Options--Reserved for the Nacretinei Crisis (2 AP)
-[X] [Seer] Raise a Seeing Circle (2 AP)
-[X] [Seer] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
-[X] [Seeker] Grav-Gun Hybridization
--[X] Perfect Hybridization (6 AP)
-[X] [Seeker] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons
--[X] Haywire Bombs (6 AP)
-[X][WARRIOR] Organize Troops (2 AP)
-[X] [Warrior] The Burden of Command (1 AP)
-[X][WARRIOR] Design a Light Capital (Cruiser or Light Cruiser) (4 AP)
-[X][WARRIOR] Chassis Militarization (2 AP)
-[X][WARRIOR] Develop Refit Profiles (3 AP)
--[X] Wraithbone Trauma Plates and Wraithweave Void Suits to be replaced with Wraithweave Brigantine. Infantry Lasweapons replaced with Infantry Needle Weapons
-[X][WARRIOR] Deploy forces to conduct an exploration and salvage mission in the Kronite System
--[X] Send 1 Combat Brig, 4 Battle Carracks, 10 Assault Ketches, and 20 Lance Sloops, Zahr-Tann's 15th Scout Fleet is to assist as they are able and provide early warning in case any local Problems decide to start coming our way.
--[X] 2nd Heavy Militia is to accompany as security forces for the expedition
---[X] This is not to be a combat operation despite the forces being deployed, our objective is to salvage any artifacts from the human wreckage that may provide useful insights for our own Seekers, sure, it's crude and poorly developed--but the core principles are still useful, and we're hardly in a position to be picky for sources of how to rebuild our forge-craft without the blessings of the Phoenix Court. Withdraw if there is any significant risk of sustaining damage.
-[X][WARRIOR] Deploy 2 Scouting Fleets from Zahr-Tann's forces to assist in scouting the regional Webway.
-[X][WARRIOR] Have 4 Combat Brigs, 12 Battle Carracks, and 20 War Ketches accompany the 3rd and 5th Scout Fleets, the 3rd Heavy Fleet, and the 6th Line Fleet of Zahr-Tann, they are to serve as a Liberation/Rescue/Search force for Nacretinei once we've coordinated with their allies and gathered the data we can.
--[X] They are additionally to be accompanied by the Vaul-Hammer Warhost and the Grand Warcasting Circle of Vau-Vulkesh, as well as the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Battle and Line Hosts of Zahr-Tann, ideally we don't need the military strength, but it's better to have it and not need it. If further Reinforcements are required, they can be transported through the Webway Gates on our Brigs.
-[X] [Steward] Move Existing Councils (5 AP)
-[X] [Steward] Manage Diplomatic Affairs (2 AP)
-[X][BONESINGER] Replace Primary Power Distribution Control (2 AP)
-[X] [Bonesinger] Enhance Industry (3 AP)
--[X][FORGE] Use the Forge (One Turn Completion)
-[X] [Bonesinger] Seer Circle (4 AP)
--[X][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns)
-[X] [Bonesinger] Continue ship repair (1 AP)
-[X] [Bonesinger] Continue ship refits (1 AP)
-[X][BONESINGER] Develop Basic Grenades (1 AP)
-[X] [Bonesinger] Develop Basic Voidship Torpedos (2 AP)
-[X][BONESINGER] Develop Melta Weapons (1 AP)
-[X][SEER] Two Scrying Options--Reserved for the Nacretinei Crisis (2 AP)
-[X] [Seer] Raise a Seeing Circle (2 AP)
-[X] [Seer] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
-[X] [Seeker] Grav-Gun Hybridization
--[X] Perfect Hybridization (6 AP)
-[X] [Seeker] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons
--[X] Haywire Bombs (6 AP)
-[X][WARRIOR] Organize Troops (2 AP)
-[X] [Warrior] The Burden of Command (1 AP)
-[X][WARRIOR] Design a Light Capital (Cruiser or Light Cruiser) (4 AP)
-[X][WARRIOR] Chassis Militarization (2 AP)
-[X][WARRIOR] Develop Refit Profiles (3 AP)
--[X] Wraithbone Trauma Plates and Wraithweave Void Suits to be replaced with Wraithweave Brigantine. Infantry Lasweapons replaced with Infantry Needle Weapons
-[X][WARRIOR] Deploy forces to conduct an exploration and salvage mission in the Kronite System
--[X] Send 1 Combat Brig, 4 Battle Carracks, 10 Assault Ketches, and 20 Lance Sloops, Zahr-Tann's 15th Scout Fleet is to assist as they are able and provide early warning in case any local Problems decide to start coming our way.
--[X] 2nd Heavy Militia is to accompany as security forces for the expedition
---[X] This is not to be a combat operation despite the forces being deployed, our objective is to salvage any artifacts from the human wreckage that may provide useful insights for our own Seekers, sure, it's crude and poorly developed--but the core principles are still useful, and we're hardly in a position to be picky for sources of how to rebuild our forge-craft without the blessings of the Phoenix Court. Withdraw if there is any significant risk of sustaining damage.
-[X][WARRIOR] Deploy 2 Scouting Fleets from Zahr-Tann's forces to assist in scouting the regional Webway.
-[X][WARRIOR] Have 4 Combat Brigs, 12 Battle Carracks, and 20 War Ketches accompany the 3rd and 5th Scout Fleets, the 3rd Heavy Fleet, and the 6th Line Fleet of Zahr-Tann, they are to serve as a Liberation/Rescue/Search force for Nacretinei once we've coordinated with their allies and gathered the data we can.
--[X] They are additionally to be accompanied by the Vaul-Hammer Warhost and the Grand Warcasting Circle of Vau-Vulkesh, as well as the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Battle and Line Hosts of Zahr-Tann, ideally we don't need the military strength, but it's better to have it and not need it. If further Reinforcements are required, they can be transported through the Webway Gates on our Brigs.
Well, I hope that Kairos isn't feeling particularly spiteful at the moment, given that it seems we'll be pointing him in Nacretinei's direction.
That's my biggest objection to the current winning plan. The short sighted under-investment in industry and frankly pointless spending on partially building engine controls is annoying, but the unnecessary risk of the Scrying action, despite the introduction to that section being a huge health warning is the real problem.
Sure, this risk may not manifest, but the Webway is probably the easiest place for Kairos to exploit us tipping him off, and the winning plan is to do so not just once, but twice!
And worse, doing this despite us knowing that other Craftworlds who Kairos is much less likely to be focusing his spiteful attention on are also Scrying, and we can coordinate with them to find out what they learn.
That's my biggest objection to the current winning plan. The short sighted under-investment in industry and frankly pointless spending on partially building engine controls is annoying, but the unnecessary risk of the Scrying action, despite the introduction to that section being a huge health warning is the real problem.
Sure, this risk may not manifest, but the Webway is probably the easiest place for Kairos to exploit us tipping him off, and the winning plan is to do so not just once, but twice!
And worse, doing this despite us knowing that other Craftworlds who Kairos is much less likely to be focusing his spiteful attention on are also Scrying, and we can coordinate with them to find out what they learn.
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
That is your opinion, not fact.
For example, it says that Kairos "may" intervene, not that Kairos "will" intervene. For all we know the fateweaver may end up being busy with some other plot and do nothing to our scrying
Yes.. Hence why I said 'I hope' and ' this risk may not manifest'. That means it's not a certainty. It's a risk. A risk we don't need to take.
Perhaps Kairos will let us off. Perhaps he'll decide to be merciful. Or he'll decide that what we did isn't that important. Or decide to forgive and forget.
He can do that.
Perhaps he will. He's a busy Greater Daemon after all. He's certainly not the kind of abomination who would destroy a valuable subordinate like a Lord of Change because he's just that pissed off with what we've done. He'll most likely make a rational decision about where to expend his resources.
Let's hope that. It's in his hands now.
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Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
I mean, Kairos has two options if he wants to meddle.
Deny our scrying with all the subtlety of a wreckingball attacking a glass tower.
Find a catspaw to meddle.
Considering how it will take them time to even be able to hurt us? And Kairos is going to be fending off attempts to gank him all the while most likely. Now is the ideal time to throw a scrying attempt to find Nacreteini.