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A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

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Randino Treviani said:
I really just can't agree with this. it's a time of crisis in the aftermath of an apocalypse. the Serpent of the stars is a sign of strength to draw in those who need a strong patron to protect them, not a gauche flaunting of wealth and prestige.
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You're free to disagree, I just think the other steps fulfill that role better without going too over the top.
 
Prospalz said:
Broadly, I plainly feel that the "look, there is a curse" is like, the least threatened vector of our actions at the Aeldmoot, Ishari or no Ishari.
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it's not about threat, it's about them accepting what we are saying. if the Ishari are along they become part of our revelation reveal about the nature of the three curses and proving they exist, which the antagonized conservatives will push back against harder because of.
Alectai said:
You're free to disagree, I just think the other steps fulfill that role better without going too over the top.
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I don't think there is an over the top when your trying to get the acknowledgement of your entire, slightly backwards do to Nurgle mindwhammy race for the sake of saving their very souls. your worried about provoking envy and sacrificing the chance to inspire awe in the process. a crone sword class vessel is the kind of thing to draw out Aeldari superstition and premonitions of victory.

That saying you quoted by Teddy Roosevelt? your supposed to have the stick with you to discourage violence, not hide it away to surprise someone with because your worried their is a chance things go south. a deterrent needs to be seen to have value as a deterrent. a symbol of strength and hope as the Aeldari reunite for the first time since the fall and likely the last time this century serves no one left behind.
 
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Randino Treviani said:
it's not about threat, it's about them accepting what we are saying. if the Ishari are along they become part of our revelation reveal about the nature of the three curses and proving they exist, which the antagonized conservatives will push back against harder because of.

I don't think there is an over the top when your trying to get the acknowledgement of your entire, slightly backwards do to Nurgle mindwhammy race for the sake of saving their very souls. your worried about provoking envy and sacrificing the chance to inspire awe in the process. a crone sword class vessel is the kind of thing to draw out Aeldari superstition and premonitions of victory.

That saying you quoted by Teddy Roosevelt? your supposed to have the stick with you to discourage violence, not hide it away to surprise someone with because your worried their is a chance things go south. a deterrent needs to be seen to have value as a deterrent.
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And I disagree with your outlook, given how the phrasing is "You need to project strength without making it look like blustering". Bringing a massive, relic warship to the table is the definition of blustering, as it serves no purpose except waving our big stick in people's faces. The point is "Don't talk shit, don't start shit, but end shit if it happens", not "Wave your nuclear weapons in everyone's face and taunt them how you have it and they don't"

Because frankly, if they're willing to dismiss a Battleship group with our crazy rationalized Escorts backstopping them, a Sword of Vaul is just going to make "Everyone turns on us to take it from us" more likely. Because they've already decided that anything we bring to bear is insufficient and therefore we don't deserve to have one.
 
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Alectai said:
And I disagree with your outlook, given how the phrasing is "You need to project strength without making it look like blustering". Bringing a massive, relic warship to the table is the definition of blustering.
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no, the point is too bluster. to bluster that you have this big stick and you feel confident things are going your way because you managed to arrive with the big stick in the first place. Teddy's entire shtick was bluster unless given no choice but to act.

Roosevelt expanded the Navy and sent the Great White Fleet on a world tour to project naval power. His successful efforts to end the Russo-Japanese War won him the 1906 Nobel Peace Prize, the first American to win a Nobel Prize.
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the above is listed as what Theodore Roosevelt was best known for. the man won a noble peace prize for blustering an end to a war. your entire perspective on this is the opposite of the quoted person's intended message.
 
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F0lkL0re said:
What if they have crazy rationalized ships of their own?
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Then I call foul because that would require them to be even better than canon Craftworlders at R&D. And we're still only 4 turns into post Fall.

Because our ships are pretty decisively better than what the Space Elfs field in canon, we just lack defensive features for our heavier ships. For them to have better ships than us would be for them to have gotten a magical boost from nowhere.

There also shouldn't be any Fateforges/Star Crystal Farms outside of Vau Vulkesh simply because "If they were, canon Craftworlds would have access to these weapons". If they have any weapons that use those exotics, they're an irreplaceable asset.
 
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Randino Treviani said:
that's a result of Nurgles curse and the diminishing. we could have started with a crone sword class battleship, and it would be weird if Arach-qin, a small craft world had one and not one of the major or other large craftworlds had managed to get their hand on one. these ships are rare but their also the sort of asset a mid fall craft or exodite world would sacrifice a billion lives to keep. if there aren't at least two other intact ones out there and a fourth in need of major repairs I'd be pretty shocked.
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The Curse is not mind control, it's a tendency to rest on your laurels. It doesn't make you actively worse over time, it's just that it makes you more inclined to settle for "Good Enough" and not continue further even if there's more improvements to be made.

I suspect the canon Craftworlders did their initial Rationalization Pass and just... Decided that was good enough, maybe doing a refit when they cracked Pulsar Lances, but that's it. We Know that the modern Craftworld designs look almost identical to the ones we have access to now. In ten thousand years for instance, they never considered making a Galleon-type Battleship? That's how Nurgle's Curse manifests, "Barring existential threat, you don't improve on what's Good Enough." Ten thousand years and they're still operating with gear we could produce right now? "What we have is Good Enough for most threats, no point doing more".

And why wouldn't it be? Craftworld Ships beat the shit out of anything that isn't Necrons--and if they're operated well, they can even threaten those.
 
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Randino Treviani said:
just to be clear, those voting to bring the Ishari High Priestess do understand that this will result in more pushback from the conservatives, potentially resulting in our attempt to get the curse acknowledged failing, not only freeing Beil-Tan to resume it's plan of kinslaying us, but also turn it's attention to fea-eresh, and imperil the souls of billions of Aeldari who might otherwise have been saved by the outcome of this Aeldmoot.
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Point of order, no it won't. We have explicit WoG that literally no one is stupid enough to piss off the Harlequins like that.
 
The Froggy Ninja said:
Point of order, no it won't. We have explicit WoG that literally no one is stupid enough to piss off the Harlequins like that.
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I'm not talking about at the Aeldmoot. I'm talking about later. The Fea-eresh have had visions about Aeldari burning them before, and once this is over if it fails to convince the really important worlds, Beil-Tan is back on, and the most extreme conservatives will not forget the Ishari. this failing and backfiring on us is entirely possible. it wouldn't mean anything to for their involvement to cause push back of that pushback didn't have the potential to fuck things up for us.
 
Randino Treviani said:
I'm not talking about at the Aeldmoot. I'm talking about later. The Fea-eresh have had visions about Aeldari burning them before, and once this is over if it fails to convince the really important worlds, Beil-Tan is back on, and the most extreme conservatives will not forget the Ishari. this failing and backfiring on us is entirely possible. it wouldn't mean anything to for their involvement to cause push back of that pushback didn't have the potential to fuck things up for us.
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I'm also talking about after the Aeldmoot. Having the Harlequins in our corner means very few would be stupid enough to disbelieve us and even fewer would be stupid enough to engage in kin-slaying against Cegorach's third favorite people and the refugees His servants delivered to them.
 
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