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A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

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[x] Plan: The Aeldmoot, industry edition v3
[X] Plan: Distributions

I feel the Void Guard Armor foundry is more important than the brigantine foundry. Not only will it give us a data point in how effective foundry's are, like any other armor foundry, it'll tell us how viable standardizing on VGA is when we get out of rapid refits. And if we don't like the amount of effort it needs? We'll still want VGA for the elites so it's not like it's a waste. (Ithilmar at present is a bit pricey for anyone that isn't a Very Valuable Individual or elite assault squads. And even the latter is questionable.)

It's plausible we'll find new Warrior AP sinks once we get the Shrine of Khaine anyhow. So a moment to check before we try and see if we we'll want production capable of handling 12 detachments/turn may be best. (We've seen Zahr-Tann have 'Force Captains' in their command squads. Is this just a dude with a fancy title or a special unit that we need to invest AP in similarly to our psykers? We don't know.)
 
Alectai said:
--[X] Flaw: Low Threshold
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Alectai said:
--[X] Advantage: Fast Recycle
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I will say, I'm fine ditching these, and I'll say why. Simply put I think the increased durability will compensate for the reduced restore time, since while it won't be able to come back online as fast, it also won't go offline as often. While also offering benefits for situations where Holofields fail and a user comes under sustained fire, as well as increasing resistance to sustained explosives fire that might otherwise crack a low threshold shield even through Pressure Resistance.
 
Ugh, I wish these arguments would have come back when it was in the draft instead of the war over BAP.

If I can get enough people seconding dgr's request, I'll remove it from the Plan
 
Another minor argument for why we might want to ditch low threshold and fast recycle, is because that combo is basically a Zahr Tann flash shield, and I'm fairly sure we could get their designs if we asked and traded them something in return.
 
Alectai said:
Ugh, I wish these arguments would have come back when it was in the draft instead of the war over BAP.

If I can get enough people seconding dgr's request, I'll remove it from the Plan
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I'll second the idea of removing Low Threshold, it just has anti synergy with everything. A shield that comes up fast and is strong vastly outperforms one that just comes up fast, and i'm not convinced that low threshold and fast refresh really come out to something as good as not taking either.

Though personally, I feel dropping cheap might be the way to go. paying full price for something that will more reliably save the likely decently expensive armor or vehicle its on might work out to be cheaper in the long run. Though it depends on the exact savings of cheap.

@Mechanis what % cost decrease is the cheap advantage?
 
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Alectai said:
Ugh, I wish these arguments would have come back when it was in the draft instead of the war over BAP.

If I can get enough people seconding dgr's request, I'll remove it from the Plan
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I will second this request, quite frankly I already mentioned it multiple times that the advantages/flaws were not really necessary and that particular synergy was not great imo for the same reasons given
 
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[X] Plan Biel-Tan Can't Touch This Finale
-[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Harlequins (1 AP)
-[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Ulthwe (2 AP)
-[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Saim-Hann (1 AP)
-[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Iyanden (4 AP)
-[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Lesser Craftworlds (1 AP)
-[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Exodites (1 AP)
-[X][BONESINGER] Enhance Industry (3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns, each)
--[X][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns)
-[X][BONESINGER] Hall of Stewardship (2 AP)
-[X][BONESINGER] Shrine of Khane (3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns)
--[X][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns)
-[X][BONESINGER] Bring in the second batch of Quilan's fleet (2 AP)
-[X][BONESINGER] Continue Ship Repair (1 AP)
-[X][BONESINGER] Assist Arach-Qin with rebuilding their Shipyard (1 point each, max 6) (1 AP)
-[X][SEER] Scry the Present (1 AP)
--[X] "Where are the Orks that our Pirate-Hunters seek"
--[X][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
-[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Conversion Fields (2 AP/turn, 1 turn)
-- [x][SEEKER] Flaw: High Power Draw
-- [x][SEEKER] Advantage: Compact
-[X][SEEKER] Grav-Gun Hybridization (2 AP Inital)
-[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (4 AP)
-[X][WARRIOR][MEROS] Recall for Repairs
--[X] 12 Damaged Lance Cutters, 9 Damaged Lance Sloops, 10 Damaged Assault Ketches, 2 Damaged Caravels
-[X][WARRIOR][MEROS] Send Reinforcements
--[X] 15 War Ketches, Zahr-Tann 4th Heavy Fleet (ALLIED), Zahr-Tann 6th Line Fleet (ALLIED), Zahr-Tann 1st Through 4th Battle Hosts (ALLIED) (4 hosts total)
-[X][WARRIOR][EVACUATION] Assign additional Escort Ships
--[X] 4× Battle Caravel, 12× War Ketches, 4× Assault Ketch
-[X][WARRIOR][EVACUATION] Dispatch an Allied Force to Fea-eresh
--[X] 3rd Heavy Fleet, 5th & 6th Battle Hosts
-[X][WARRIOR][Allied] Dispatch Allied Scout Fleets to scout the Webway
--[X] 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, and 11th Zahr-Tann Scout Fleets
-[X][WARRIOR][Allied] Dispatch Allied Scout Fleets to scout for Freebootaz alongside Vau-Vulkesh naval forces.
--[X] 13th & 15th Zahr-Tann Scout Fleets

So, with Engine Repair neccessity debunked, I've changed my plan a little. Let's get into it.

Stewardship :The Aeldmoot. We're all doing it.

Bonesinger:

Hall of Stewardship is two turns. We can afford to take it and not use a Vault action on it, especially when other actions are just as critical and will take longer.

Enhance industry is a must because the Aeldmoot will likely see us meeting craft worlds also in need of our industry and willing to trade favors for it. Thus, expanding it is worthwhile.

Shrine of Khane is a must for our martial and we barely have any worthwhile projects to spend AP on in it.

The rest are all us upholding deals and helping other Aeldari for "come join the northern Alliance" PR.

Seer: Curse and Freeboota, same as everyone else.

Seeker: Going Default on Conversion Field as opinions are much too divided to get a read on what I should pick.

Warrior:
Recalling damaged ships and replacing them with 10 war Ketch and a Zahr-Tann Heavy and Line fleet.

Increasing our commitment to Fea-eresh by assigning a Heavy Fleet to Guard them and increasing convoys to max.

Scouting the Webway with a decent concentration of Zahr-Tann Scout ships, while the other two assist with our Freeboota problem.

Overall this is a plan that focuses on the Aeldmoot as a networking opportunity attended by hundreds of Aeldari leaders or their important subordinates, that won't come around again this century or possibly next, and therefore more important than a pair of foundries being started a turn earlier when we'll need more than a century to build up military either way.
[x] The Aeldmoot, Allies, and Administration V2

[X] Plan: The Aeldmoot VGW
-[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Harlequins (1 AP)
-[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Ulthwe (2 AP)
-[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Saim-Hann (1 AP)
-[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Iyanden (4 AP)
-[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Lesser Craftworlds (1 AP)
-[X][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Exodites (1 AP)
-[X][BONESINGER] Weapon Forge (Needle Rifle) (2 AP)
-[X][BONESINGER] Armor Forge (Void Guard Warsuit) (2 AP)
-[X][BONESINGER] Hall of Stewardship (2 AP)
--[X][FORGE] Use the Forge (One Turn Clear)
-[X][BONESINGER] Shrine of Khane (3 AP)
--[X][FORGE] Use the Forge (One Turn Clear)
-[X][BONESINGER] Continue Ship Repair (1 AP)
-[X][BONESINGER] Bring in the second batch of Quilan's fleet (2 AP)
-[X][SEER] Scry the Present (1 AP)
--[X] "Where are the Orks that our Pirate-Hunters seek"
--[X][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
-[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Conversion Fields (2 AP/turn, 1 turn)
--[X] Flaw: Slow On Attack
--[X] Flaw: Bulky
--[X] Advantage: Low Cost
--[X] Advantage: Pressure Resistance
-[X][SEEKER] Grav-Gun Hybridization (2 AP Inital)
-[X][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (4 AP)
-[X][WARRIOR][MEROS] Recall for Repairs
--[X] 12 Damaged Lance Cutters, 9 Damaged Lance Sloops, 10 Damaged Assault Ketches, 2 Damaged Caravels
-[X][WARRIOR][MEROS] Send Reinforcements
--[X] 20 War Ketches, The 3rd Heavy Fleet (ALLIED), 1st and 2nd Battle Hosts (ALLIED)
-[X][WARRIOR][EVACUATION] Assign additional Escort Ships
--[X] 1x Battle Caravel, 2x War Ketches, 1x Assault Ketch, 1x Nettle Destroyer each, when we run out of Nettles, send another War Ketch instead
-[X][WARRIOR][VAL-TERRINE] Dispatch an Allied Force
--[X] 2nd Line Fleet, 11th Scout Fleet, and 1st Line Host
 
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[x] Plan: The Aeldmoot, industry edition v3

I've got two issues with the winning plan. One is needler rifle forge - we won't be using it as as a main gun, sunrifles are better. Second is non compact conversion fields.
 
Alratan said:
[ ] Draft: The Aeldmoot, Allies, and Administration V2
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Harlequins (1 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Ulthwe (2 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Saim-Hann (1 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Iyanden (4 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Lesser Craftworlds (1 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Exodites (1 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Hall of Stewardship (2 AP initial, 1 point continuous | 2 turns)
--[ ][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Shrine of Khaine (3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns)
--[ ][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Continue Ship Repair (1 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Bring in the second batch of Quilan's fleet (2 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Assist Arach-Qin with rebuilding their Shipyard (4 AP)
-[ ][SEER] Scry the Present (1 AP)
--[ ] "Where are the Orks that our Pirate-Hunters seek"
--[ ][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
-[ ][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Conversion Fields (2 AP/turn, 1 turn)
--[ ] Flaw: Slow On Attack
--[ ] Flaw: Low Threshold
--[ ] Advantage: Low Cost
--[ ] Advantage: Pressure Resistance
-[ ][SEEKER] Grav-Gun Hybridization (2 AP Inital)
-[ ][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (4 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR][MEROS] Recall for Repairs
--[ ] 12 Damaged Lance Cutters, 9 Damaged Lance Sloops, 10 Damaged Assault Ketches, 2 Damaged Caravels
-[ ][WARRIOR][MEROS] Send Reinforcements
--[ ] 20 War Ketches, The 3rd Heavy Fleet (ALLIED), 1st and 2nd Battle Hosts (ALLIED)
-[ ][WARRIOR][EVACUATION] Assign additional Escort Ships
--[ ] 1x Battle Caravel, 2x War Ketches, 1x Assault Ketch, 1x Nettle Destroyer each, when we run out of Nettles, send another War Ketch instead
-[ ] [WARRIOR] Dispatch an Allied Force
--[ ] Send three allied Scout Fleets to help search for the Freebootaz, lead by a Line Fleet to stiffen them in case they bump into anything nasty.
--[ ] Send four allied Scout Fleets to scout the Webway, looking for routes to the True Stars.

Ok, going for a full court diplomatic press on top of our basic infrastructure.

We're holding the Aeldarmoot this turn, so I want to show off what an amazing ally we are to our friends. That's why I've gone heavy on helping both Quilan and Arach-Qin, as well as trying to find the Freebootaz so we can kill them.

With a large allied army that is very strong on infantry, I don't think building more infantry gear is at all urgent, but showing off diplomatically is particularly important for this turn.



My issue remains that we don't urgently need more infantry. It's a capability we've met well compared to our other needs. Sure, it might be useful in a few decades if we want to operate independently or show our good will, but right now it's just not a pririty.

For example, fixing Arach-Qin's shipyards might get us a Sword of Vaul class battleship in the next couple of turns. That will allow us to do much more than a fraction of detachment's worth of infantry gear.
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I like that plan so I'll vote for it.

[x] The Aeldmoot, Allies, and Administration V2
-[x][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Harlequins (1 AP)
-[x][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Ulthwe (2 AP)
-[x][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Saim-Hann (1 AP)
-[x][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] Iyanden (4 AP)
-[x][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Lesser Craftworlds (1 AP)
-[x][STEWARD][AELDMOOT] The Exodites (1 AP)
-[x][BONESINGER] Hall of Stewardship (2 AP initial, 1 point continuous | 2 turns)
--[x][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns)
-[x][BONESINGER] Shrine of Khaine (3 points initial, 1 point continuous | 2-3 turns)
--[x][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns)
-[x][BONESINGER] Continue Ship Repair (1 AP)
-[x][BONESINGER] Bring in the second batch of Quilan's fleet (2 AP)
-[x][BONESINGER] Assist Arach-Qin with rebuilding their Shipyard (4 AP)
-[x][SEER] Scry the Present (1 AP)
--[x] "Where are the Orks that our Pirate-Hunters seek"
--[x][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
-[x][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Conversion Fields (2 AP/turn, 1 turn)
--[x] Flaw: Slow On Attack
--[x] Flaw: Low Threshold
--[x] Advantage: Low Cost
--[x] Advantage: Pressure Resistance
-[x][SEEKER] Grav-Gun Hybridization (2 AP Inital)
-[x][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (4 AP)
-[x][WARRIOR][MEROS] Recall for Repairs
--[x] 12 Damaged Lance Cutters, 9 Damaged Lance Sloops, 10 Damaged Assault Ketches, 2 Damaged Caravels
-[x][WARRIOR][MEROS] Send Reinforcements
--[x] 20 War Ketches, The 3rd Heavy Fleet (ALLIED), 1st and 2nd Battle Hosts (ALLIED)
-[x][WARRIOR][EVACUATION] Assign additional Escort Ships
--[x] 1x Battle Caravel, 2x War Ketches, 1x Assault Ketch, 1x Nettle Destroyer each, when we run out of Nettles, send another War Ketch instead
-[x][WARRIOR] Dispatch an Allied Force
--[x] Send three allied Scout Fleets to help search for the Freebootaz, lead by a Line Fleet to stiffen them in case they bump into anything nasty.
--[x] Send four allied Scout Fleets to scout the Webway, looking for routes to the True Stars.

Although I'd prefer Compact over Low Cost, other than that I'm a fan of the plan.

[x] Plan: The Aeldmoot, industry edition v3
[x] Plan Biel-Tan Can't Touch This Finale
 
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A bit of context, since people are still arguing about conversion field options:
Mechanis said:
So yes, you will be able to refine/develop variants of the technology in the future, probably once you have fewer immediate crisises to worry about and can slow down a little, which seems to be occuring a lot more quickly than I originally anticipated on account of ridiculous dice.
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In the long term, we'll be able to unlock alternative configurations. As such, I'd strongly recommend voting for a conversion shield variation that does one thing well rather than a jack-of-all-trades; we'll be able to put it to use immediately without having to worry about throwing it away when we actually can build a specialized version.

Long story short, you should be taking either bulky or high power draw as a flaw and get something useful for it. Compact is excellent for vehicles and starships, and infantry will probably greatly appreciate Pressure Resistant or Low Cost.
 
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Candesce said:
You, uh, haven't actually put this in your vote. You've put in refitting dragonships twice, though!
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okay. I've fixed it and put it back the way it was originally.
Mostlyblue said:
[x] The Aeldmoot, Allies, and Administration V2
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I like this plan as well so I'm voting for it. two foundries started now instead of turn 5 won't mean much in the long run, but the impression we make on the Aeldari attending and the potential alliances to follow will define gameplay for the rest of the century and likely a few after that.
 
Candesce said:
A bit of context, since people are still arguing about conversion field options:

In the long term, we'll be able to unlock alternative configurations. As such, I'd strongly recommend voting for a conversion shield variation that does one thing well rather than a jack-of-all-trades; we'll be able to put it to use immediately without having to worry about throwing it away when we actually can build a specialized version.

Long story short, you should be taking either bulky or high power draw as a flaw and get something useful for it. Compact is excellent for vehicles and starships, and infantry will probably greatly appreciate Pressure Resistant or Low Cost.
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Yeah, basically this.

If you want infantry fields:
  • Take Bulky for Low Cost
  • Rejoyce in the ability to build tons of affordable conversion fields to protect our troops
  • Accept that your conversion field design will never be used on any vehicles or ships, ever
If you want vehicle/ship fields:
  • Take High Power Draw for Compact
  • Rejoyce in the ability to fit a new defensive system onto all our ships and vehicles
  • Accept that your conversion field design will only be used for infantry after we've been able to create new armor designs, which won't be for a while
There are other additions and specializations, but we should really be picking one of these two use cases right now and specializing for it.
 
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Randino Treviani said:
- [x][SEEKER] Flaw: High Power Draw
-- [x][SEEKER] Flaw: Slow on Attack
-- [x][SEEKER] Advantage: Compact
-- [x][SEEKER] Advantage: Rugged
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I've incorporated the ship combat focused design from other plans. ultimately ships will be much more stewardship ap intensive to redesign, so we should prioritize those as our first tech iteration of conversion fields.

that said, I'll again push that the Aeldmoot is a once in a century networking opportunity to draw like minded Aeldari into our Alliance in the north, and it'll be easier to accomplish that at the end of a turn in which our bonesinger AP went towards assisting various allies, both according to and outside of our deals with them, instead of two out of more than two dozen foundries we'll likely build over the rest of the century. this will be our greatest opportunity to build up our alliance quickly rather than by decades long crawls, so we should make the most of it.
 
If I can get, say, three more seconds, I'll change the Conversion Field to take into account the arguments.
 
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