A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

Alectai said:

We are Not raising two fucking Warhosts in one turn with just 5,000 EP, are you insane?

The point is getting some decent detachments and unfucking our gear problem, not spamming entire armies in one go when we have so many other obligations. I'm trying to transition our dudes, not triple our "Named Warhosts" number in turn one.

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Yeah we won't be raising additional warhosts for some time as we will have to spend a lot of EP (special resources are secondary here even if we upgrade all the weapons to them) to just unfuck our current forces.

Hell i doubt we will create much in the way of new detachments for a few turns, just recycle the stuff we have to upgrade it all.

Most of the milita units are pretty damn painful to look at gear wise.
The milita jetbikes as an example have no weapons on them (the rider has a fucking lasrifle) and no fucking defenses.
Unfucking them with the least about of EP is still at 24 per jetbike (Holofield + 2 Lasrifles) and if you want them to actually do damage its Holofield + 2 starblasters/Fatesplitter carbine for something like 44/38EP + special resources. Also armor that fucking rider if possible.
For a full unit that is 192 EP or 352 Ep +32Starcrystals/16 Scopes

At this point i also wouldn't worry about special resouce useage as long as we try use both types.
We will run out of EP a long time before we use up what we produce there in a turn even with full usagee of the Forge for EP production at the moment

And the miltia assault units have normal melee weapons instead of power weapons (if Elder are send into melee at least we can make sure they have good weapons). (this is just going to be expensive EP wise).

Anyway, let me sort things out with the Warriors section, mostly just going to be doing more scouting.

EDIT: Done, I also mobilized most of our remaining Hearthguard into a new Warhost that's mostly about being space guerillas who shoot and scoot a lot. Useful to have on the defense.

Alectai said:

EDIT: Done, I also mobilized most of our remaining Hearthguard into a new Warhost that's mostly about being space guerillas who shoot and scoot a lot. Useful to have on the defense.

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[ ] Raise a Warhost does not cost an AP so you have one AP left for the military.

sunrise said:

[ ] Raise a Warhost does not cost an AP so you have one AP left for the military.

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What am I supposed to do with it then, I'm capped at 4 scouting actions.

I honestly think that military AP will be left over until we do/start some reforms because our guys literally have no idea what to do.

I agree at least this turn we have better things to do then produce the gear needed to make a new detachment and Rationalize Infantry might mean we have better options for that soon.
And for raising another warhost we lack detachments for that would be better then we have now and we are already keeping a large militia force at home(but is good to know we have a reserve of militia detachments we can hopefully disband and retrain into regulars in the coming turns).
There is a 1 Hearthguard Light Support Detachment that could be added to support one of the militia warhost we are sending out as they can be changed in the turn they are send out:

[ ] Raise a Warhost
Raise from your existing detachments a mighty (or perhaps not so mighty) Warhost, that it may be deployed at need.
Organize a Warhost from among your standing Detachments. This will become available to deploy on the same turn, so you may raise a Warhost (or several) to meet immediate requirements.
[ ] Disband a Warhost
Remove an existing Warhost from your list thereof, allowing you to assign its Detachments to other Warhosts as needed.
Breaks up an existing Warhost, returning its components to your pool of available Detachments. As this occurs immediately, you can disband a Warhost and immediately assign any of its component Detachments to a new Warhost on the same turn.

*Looks at all the Comments about our Equipment. Looks at our Forces*

I have no idea what is so bad about them. Sure, they are our Starting Forces on Turn 1, but even our thrown together Militia and Civilian Forces look pretty good to me. We are sending some pretty nasty Stuff against those Orcs, even if our Forces are few in Number.

They are not Humans, they are Eldar. All of them are better shots than most Humans can hope to be with way better Reflexes. They also use Weapons which would be a Dream for other Races Elites to wield.

Xavies said:

*Looks at all the Comments about our Equipment. Looks at our Forces*

I have no idea what is so bad about them. Sure, they are our Starting Forces on Turn 1, but even our thrown together Militia and Civilian Forces look pretty good to me. We are sending some pretty nasty Stuff against those Orcs, even if our Forces are few in Number.

They are not Humans, they are Eldar. All of them are better shots than most Humans can hope to be with way better Reflexes. They also use Weapons which would be a Dream for other Races Elites to wield.

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Yes we are Eldar, that means we won't ever field large armies compared to Humans as things stand and we can't absorb the absurd losses they are very much able and willing to take.

Also are we looking at the same forces ?
The hearthguard units look mostly ok equipment wise.

But most of our militia forces are not even ok under the standpoint of the fall just having happened and everything being on fire. The Rationalize for infantry and vehicles is desperately needed for them.

The two biggest offenders to me at least are the current militia jetbikes and milita assault squad.
First because a single Jetbike almost costs more EP than the armor and weapons for the entire unit.
The fucking things have two weapon slots and none is used, the rider just has a lascarbine.

The Milita assault squad because they have trauma plate (worst armor we have) and light melee weapons (normal) + pistols. These guys and girls are pretty much being sent to their death for little gain.

Xavies said:

*Looks at all the Comments about our Equipment. Looks at our Forces*

I have no idea what is so bad about them. Sure, they are our Starting Forces on Turn 1, but even our thrown together Militia and Civilian Forces look pretty good to me. We are sending some pretty nasty Stuff against those Orcs, even if our Forces are few in Number.

They are not Humans, they are Eldar. All of them are better shots than most Humans can hope to be with way better Reflexes. They also use Weapons which would be a Dream for other Races Elites to wield.

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The problem isn't really firepower (our elites can deal with tanks on their own), it's armour, our militias are rolling around in T-Shirts and cardboard, while our elites have armour that is (at best) comporable to guardian armour, and we're facing off against Orks (who love their volume of fire), plus our assault militia are going against Orks in melee with no power weapons or any actually effective equipment.

True we can puch disproportionately above our weight limit thanks to the starblasters and fatecasters (probably not the lasguns unless they're way better than anything the IG makes - which they probably are, but being stronger than a lasgun is the bare minimum for a decent weapon) but we're VERY fragile right now, (hopefully the warsuits will change that) and that's no good for fighting Orks.

Alectai said:

What am I supposed to do with it then, I'm capped at 4 scouting actions.

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Having one leftover isn't a problem here. It's appropriate since we're still getting to grips with how to make an actual military.

BigFungus26 said:

Does this mean we are only allowed to build one ship (or more if we select for a batch production) at a time, or does this mean AP is reserved for the construction until it's finished?

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Ship Construction that takes multiple turns will be an ongoing expense, though lesser than getting one started in most cases (often, multiple builds will be lumped into a single "keep on making these" action), but need not be taken every turn thereafter. They just don't get done until all the needed time on the build is expended. So for example Lance Cutters can literally get pumped out by the dozen in one turn, if you want.

Mechanis said:

Ship Construction that takes multiple turns will be an ongoing expense, though lesser than getting one started in most cases (often, multiple builds will be lumped into a single "keep on making these" action), but need not be taken every turn thereafter. They just don't get done until all the needed time on the build is expended. So for example Lance Cutters can literally get pumped out by the dozen in one turn, if you want.

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Ah I see, so we can build multiple different types of ships - e.g 6 combat brigs in a single turn if we have the resources and dock space and 6 turns later, we get them?

A quick exercise in costing out equipment upgrades: Holofields for vehicles. If each vehicular holofield costs 18 points, and we wanted to equip all the Militia Line Detatchments with them, on every Jetbike, IFV and Barge, the cost would be around 10305 BP for all the militia warhosts and reserves.

Vehrec said:

A quick exercise in costing out equipment upgrades: Holofields for vehicles. If each vehicular holofield costs 18 points, and we wanted to equip all the Militia Line Detatchments with them, on every Jetbike, IFV and Barge, the cost would be around 10305 BP for all the militia warhosts and reserves.

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With the forge of vaul, it could be done.

blankmask said:

With the forge of vaul, it could be done.

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Do note, that's only the Militia line-not the support or the assult detatchments.

The same 'All Holofields for All Vehicles' for the Fist of Vaul-Vulkesh is 2070 build points. Mostly due to jetbikes.

[X] Plan: Strong Foundations Lead to Victory

Vehrec said:

A quick exercise in costing out equipment upgrades: Holofields for vehicles. If each vehicular holofield costs 18 points, and we wanted to equip all the Militia Line Detatchments with them, on every Jetbike, IFV and Barge, the cost would be around 10305 BP for all the militia warhosts and reserves.

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Yeah the equipment upgrades are going to be pretty expensive EP wise and will likely take up the forge actions for the next 2-3 Turn after the Rationalize.

blankmask said:

With the forge of vaul, it could be done.

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That is just holofields for the vehicles (and only for a portion), ignoring infantry upgrades entirely.

Overall cost is will likely be beyond 50 000 EP if i had to guess.
And just for our current ground forces.

Y'know I couldn't really figure out what the purpose for the 'backpack' being used by the guardian squads, and an idea struck me for what we could use it for in our armour design.

If I'm reading the flavour text for conversion shields right, they can only take a certain amount of energy in a set period before they "recieve a destructive overload", but since we don't know the magnitude of the overload, it could either be like a fuse melting and needing replacement, or the entire generator exploding and taking its wearer with them (I'm gonna assume it's the former since our tech can actually work better than the Imperium's).

So, my idea for the warsuit could incorporate a kind of "shield generator backpack" using (currently) our conversion fields (at least until we get personal Grav-shields and crank out enough of them to outfit our troops), maybe some kind of internal heads up display to show how much more "damage" the shields can take and when the conversion field gets overloaded / destroyed, we simply detach the backpack and put a new one on (while the old one gets sent to our backline to be repaired maybe? Or at least stored until it can be brought back to Vulkesh).

By making our conversion shields easier to replace when they inevitably brick themselves (and warning our troops of how much damage they can take), all one of our infantry has to do is just sling the backpack off and plug a new one into their armour.

It'd probably necessitate bringing along spare generator backpacks (at least until we can substitute them for grav-shields) but that kind of replaceability could really shine in a battlefield where we very much don't want to send anyone to repair broken equipment), although granted, depending on the price, it will be a pain to mass produce enough spares for all of our warhosts)

[X] Plan: Strong Foundations Lead to Victory

Vehrec said:

A quick exercise in costing out equipment upgrades: Holofields for vehicles. If each vehicular holofield costs 18 points, and we wanted to equip all the Militia Line Detatchments with them, on every Jetbike, IFV and Barge, the cost would be around 10305 BP for all the militia warhosts and reserves.

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You're treating it like we have to arm every single unit we have in one go, and treating it as impossible because the cost is absurd, and yet your standard is luxury that even the canon 40K Major Craftworlds can't boast of?

The Good Stuff is Expensive, but we don't need to give it to absolutely everyone that moves, because we're not going to be mobilizing every single force we have for every battle we get into.

@Mechanis: Do you have a tech-tree in mind already, or can we suggest new tech avenues we could look into?

Cos I have some stuff from when I was statting up some Eldar Tech for a Gurps Game that never took off that might be usable here...

IronFist said:

@Mechanis: Do you have a tech-tree in mind already, or can we suggest new tech avenues we could look into?

Cos I have some stuff from when I was statting up some Eldar Tech for a Gurps Game that never took off that might be usable here...

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I have tech ideas, but you are welcome to make suggestions. No garentee I'll actually use them or used them as is, but anyway.

Calling the vote Jun 17, 2024 at 3:00 PM ​

[X] Plan: Strong Foundations Lead to Victory

Mechanis said:

I have tech ideas, but you are welcome to make suggestions. No garentee I'll actually use them or used them as is, but anyway.

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While I have a joke answer in the form of RWBY weapons. I personally would want to make better gellar fields and maybe powerfull grandes

[ ] Monofilament Weapons (-2 points)
These weapons fire rapidly expanding webs of monomolecular wire that shred effectively anything they come into contact with. This is especially effective against living targets, whose pained thrashing only serves to further entangle them in the deadly net.
[ ] Melta Weapons (-1 point)
Melta type weapons are effectively the ultimate evolution to the flamethrower, firing ultra-compressed bursts of superheated material which is equally effective at burning though armored vehicles or unfortunate infantry. Their only real weakness is their relatively short effective range.

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Also, can we research this? It would be a good combo (lotheran sea guard style) against orks and later Tyranids.

Alectai said:

You're treating it like we have to arm every single unit we have in one go, and treating it as impossible because the cost is absurd, and yet your standard is luxury that even the canon 40K Major Craftworlds can't boast of?

The Good Stuff is Expensive, but we don't need to give it to absolutely everyone that moves, because we're not going to be mobilizing every single force we have for every battle we get into.

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Just did the math for just unfucking the milita jetbikes units into something worth fielding:



Total amount of units in detachments and warhost:
Support: 2+15+12=29
Line: (11+10+4)x2=50
Heavy: (5+4+1)x3=30
Assault: (10+5+4+1)x2=40
-> 29+50+30+40=149 Milita jetbike units
-> total upgrade price 149*200=~ 29 800 EP to just unfuck that one unit

And I would actually advise for all vehicles to the base price to just go with the good stuff.
Add Holofields+grav-shields and the vehicles will last much longer than pretty much any infantry we can throw out.

Yeah, we will have to do these upgrade over time and aim to either upgrade warhosts we want to send to war soon or replace/upgrade units that are just terrible on all fronts (like the militia jetbikes).

But it also shows we absolutely have to use the forge to help with the EP production in the future to get any of that done in a reasonable timeframe.

Edit: Just the adding actual weapons to the jetbike and giving Hardsuits works out to:149x8x(4+3)=8 344 EP, which at least as a short term fix should be ok.