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A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

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MinerFrags said:
i cant help but notice the winning chargen plan doesnt talk about the minor xenos……..
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It's because we don't really care one way or another. We don't think they're an atrocity given form for settling on a garden world that was empty when they got there with no sign posts, but nor are we particularly interested in trying to turn them into useful tools for us. We've got enough Problems as it is.
 
[X] Plan: The Fires of War Starts in the Fires of Industry
-[X][Steward] Rationalize Infantry (1 AP)
-[X][Steward] Rationalize Vehicles (2 AP)
-[X][Steward] Rationalize Fleet (4 AP)
-[X][Steward] Tend to the Fields, Ye sons and Daughters (2 AP)
-[X][Steward] Harken the Exiles (1 AP)
-[X][Bonesinger] Assess the damage to Vau-Vulkesh's engines (2 AP)
-[X][Bonesinger] Effect general repairs (3 AP)
--[X] Forge of Vaul Supports
-[X][Bonesinger] The Fleets of Arach-Qin: Lords of the Void (1 AP)
-[X][Bonesinger] The Fleets of Arach-Qin: Lighter Than a Feather (1 AP)
-[X][Bonesinger] Develop Needlers (1 AP)
-[X][Bonesinger] Develop Wraithbone Warsuit (1 AP)
-[X][Bonesinger] Develop Wraithweave Brigantine Armor (1 AP)
-[X][Bonesinger][Forge] Produce Wargear (Reserved for New Equipment) (5,000 EP budget)
--[X] 510 Infantry Holo-field (4080EP), 6 Force Staves (96EP) 6 Wraithbone Hardsuits (18EP), 100 Starblaster Carbines (800EP, 200SC), 3 Lasrifle (6EP). 5000EP, 200SC Total.
-[X][Bonesinger] Dispatch aid to Zahr-Tann (2 AP)
-[X][Bonesinger] Dispatch aid to Meros (3 AP)
-[X][Seer] Scry the Present (1 AP)
--[X] Who is the Ork in command of the force assaulting Meros
-[X][Seer] Scry the Future (1 AP)
--[X] When can we expect a direct attack on our Craftworld
-[X][Seer] Raise a Warcasting Circle (3 AP)
-[X][Seer] The Flaw, The Curse, The Claim (5 AP)
-[X][Seeker] Reverse-engineer Grav-weapons (2 AP)
-[X][Seeker] Reverse-engineer Plasma Blasters (1 AP)
-[X][Seeker] Reverse-Engineer Conversion Fields (6 AP)
-[X][Seeker] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (3/4 AP)
-[X][Warrior] Dispatch Warhosts
--[X] Fist of Vau-Vulkesh, Vaul-Hammer, Blades of Isha, 2nd and 3rd Militia
-[X][Warrior] Send Forth your Fleets
--[X] 5 Combat Brigs, 12 Battle Carracks, 25 Assault Ketches, 25 Lance Cutters, 25 Lance Sloops
-[X][Warrior] Dispatch ships to scout the Webway (2 AP)
--[X] 1x Caravel, 2x Sloop, 2x Lance Sloop, 2x Assault Ketch each
-[X][Warrior] Raise a Warhost (1AP)
--[X] 1 Mechanized Headquarters Detachment (HQ), 1 Hearthguard Armor Detachment (Heavy), 1 Armored Assault Detachment (Special), 6 Hearthguard Skirmish Detachment (Standard), 1 Hearthguard Light Support Detachment (Light)

This is Alectai's plan but still producing War gear, mostly Holo-fields and some Starblaster Carbines (as well as what is needed for the Warcasting Circle being raised). Stuff we will almost definitely need next turn. Also raising a Warhost with our lose Hearthguard units.
 
... That's all stuff that's very much in the category of "Will be relevant three turns from now", though at least I don't outright resent it, it's just putting the cart before the horse and lowering our chances of pulling a One Turn Clear of our Craftworld Repairs.
 
[X] Plan: Maximum Repairs And Meros
-[X][Steward] Rationalize Infantry (1 AP)
-[X][Steward] Rationalize Vehicles (2 AP)
-[X][Steward] Rationalize Fleet (4 AP)
-[X][Steward] Tend to the Fields, Ye sons and Daughters (2 AP)
-[X][Steward] Harken the Exiles (1 AP)
-[X][Bonesinger] Assess the damage to Vau-Vulkesh's engines (6 AP)
-[X][Bonesinger] Effect general repairs (1 AP)
--[X] Forge of Vaul Supports x2
-[X][Bonesinger] The Fleets of Arach-Qin: Lords of the Void (1 AP)
-[X][Bonesinger] The Fleets of Arach-Qin: Lighter Than a Feather (1 AP)
-[X][Bonesinger] Develop Wraithbone Warsuit (1 AP)
-[X][Bonesinger] Develop Wraithweave Brigantine Armor (1 AP)
-[X][Bonesinger] Dispatch aid to Meros (4 AP)
-[X][Seer] Scry the Present (1 AP)
--[X] Unspecified
-[X][Seer] Scry the Future (2 AP)
--[X] When can we expect a direct attack on our Craftworld
--[X] Unspecified
-[X][Seer] The Flaw, The Curse, The Claim (7 AP)
-[X][Seeker] Reverse-engineer Grav-weapons (2 AP)
-[X][Seeker] Reverse-engineer Plasma Blasters (1 AP)
-[X][Seeker] Reverse-Engineer Conversion Fields (6 AP)
-[X][Seeker] Reverse-engineer Meson Blasters (3/5 AP)
-[X][Warrior] Dispatch Warhosts
--[X] Fist of Vau-Vulkesh, Vaul-Hammer, Blades of Isha, 1st Heavy Milita, 2nd Heavy Militia, 2nd Militia, 3rd Militia
-[X][Warrior] Send Forth your Fleets
--[X] 8 Combat Brigs, 20 Battle Carracks, 30 Assault Ketches, 25 Lance Cutters, 25 Lance Sloops
-[X][Warrior] Dispatch ships to scout the Webway (4 AP)
--[X] 1x Battle Carrack, 2x Assault Ketch, 2x Lance Sloop per scouting group
-[X][Warrior] Raise a Warhost
--[X] 1 Mechanized Headquarters Detachment (HQ), 1 Hearthguard Armor Detachment (Heavy), 1 Armored Assault Detachment (Special), 6 Hearthguard Skirmish Detachment (Standard), 1 Hearthguard Light Support Detachment (Light)

Things that this plan does:
  • Steward: Rationalizes all levels of our military so that we'll be able to get things rolling, while getting food started again and calling in Exodites to do that better later
  • Bonesinger: Hits all 6 AP that we need to assess the engine damage to our own Craftworld (as all AP spent on that is wasted until it's complete so doing it in one go is best if at all possible). Starts general repairs with double Forge of Vaul support to blast through it ASAP. Kicks off our obligations to Arach-Qin. Grabs the low-hanging fruits of military tech (armor and needlers) for use in our military rationalization. Hits Meros with the maximum possible aid so that we can minimize the time that they're spent in danger of being exterminated (less aid->more time we're stuck fighting that war, so this is essential).
  • Seer: Unspecified scrying on both present and future so that we keep an eye open for warnings/opportunities. Specific scrying relative to protecting ourself so that we know when we'll need to have a defensive fleet/army in position. 7 AP on our Big Project.
  • Seeker: Moves toward actual Grav-weapons, unlocks Plasma Blasters and Conversion Fields, nods towards Meson. Everyone is doing most of that.
  • Warrior: Sends enough troops to Meros to hopefully reduce casualties due to superior numbers; the recommended values are "at least five, or three of particular strength"- this sends seven and most of them are our best, which will hopefully be enough that we'll see reduced casualties by having more than exactly the minimum needed to do the job. The naval forces are hopefully similarly heavy as well, though we have no estimate at all for what those need to consist of to succeed. Unfortunately we can't raise detatchments using our newly developed gear and we really want new armor for our new model army, so all the AP gets poured into webway scouting- but that's still useful. The scouting groups I've put together are a single capital ship with four escorts, and all but the two lightest escorts have backup plasma drives to hopefully avoid the mobility kill problems that we've been seeing with aethersails in our fleet- if we have to abandon a couple Lance Sloops in the webway we can afford that. Also raises a warhost as in Kolar's plan- excellent use of available resources there, no reason to leave those disorganized.
Things that this plan does not do which you might care about:
  • Steward: Fully solve the food problem. I don't think any plan does that, though.
  • Bonesinger: Fulfill our obligations to Zahr-Tann by dispatching aid, which must be taken next turn. Produce any wargear at all.
  • Seer: Raise psyker units.
  • Seeker: Get meson or haywire tech going. I don't think either of those has been argued as a serious priority, but if meson blasters are your one true love, I don't have them.
  • Warrior: Keep a large ready military at home. Our damaged ships can almost certainly fight at reduced capacity if they have to, but like two-thirds of our military gets sent off to help Meros in this plan on the idea that overkill means lowered losses and we're probably not going to take major hits immediately; if you are paranoid about someone hitting us hard militarily this very turn, this plan may not be for you.

Edits: Approval voting for other plans below.

[X] Plan: The Fires of War Starts in the Fires of Industry
[X] Plan: Stoke the Fires, Light the Forges, side grade
 
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Alectai said:
We are Not raising two fucking Warhosts in one turn with just 5,000 EP, are you insane?

The point is getting some decent detachments and unfucking our gear problem, not spamming entire armies in one go when we have so many other obligations. I'm trying to transition our dudes, not triple our "Named Warhosts" number in turn one.
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Are you listening to anything anyone else is saying? I'm not talking about raising Warhosts from scratch. I'm saying you're looking at multiple thousands of EP per Militia Warhost to unfuck their gear. I can quote my own post where I broke down the math for armoring and equipping the infantry in a Militia Warhost, but I'm sure as hell not going to bother looking it up for you when you can't even be assed to quote the person you're trying to refute.

There's plenty of gear we can roll out as is. And our units are incredibly, insanely under equipped on all fronts. From vehicle support to Holo Fields, to hard suits… we're in incredibly bad straits and you're doing precisely nothing to address this while sending the warhosts we do have into the fray.
 
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Alectai said:
... That's all stuff that's very much in the category of "Will be relevant three turns from now", though at least I don't outright resent it, it's just putting the cart before the horse and lowering our chances of pulling a One Turn Clear of our Craftworld Repairs.
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At the minimum I'm fairly curtain we need the Warcasting Circle's gear to start training them.

Everyone seems to want to give as many of our troops Holo-fields as possible, so getting started on that will be helpful in the short term. For the Starblaster Carbines, even if we don't make them standard issue, they are really good squad support weapons.

Lasguns are just filler.
 
Kolar said:
At the minimum I'm fairly curtain we need the Warcasting Circle's gear to start training them.

Everyone seems to want to give as many of our troops Holo-fields as possible, so getting started on that will be helpful in the short term. For the Starblaster Carbines, even if we don't make them standard issue, they are really good squad support weapons.

Lasguns are just filler.
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We really don't, that's what we took the Seer Spire for, it's the infrastructure to train with. We don't need the wargear until they get fielded.

We also don't get to automatically give everyone Holo-fields either, we have to actually do a refit action, and we can't even do that until we've Rationalized our stuff, because our current Detachments and Warhosts are entirely based on "Shit people had lying around when the sky fell", we need to Rationalize our forces before we can do more than just "Print out more dudes in T-Shirts and Flashlights"

That's why I'm saying "You're putting the cart before the horse" here. There is very little to gain in using our Forge of Vaul to create wargear this turn in particular because we can't even give it to anyone, but there's a lot of lengthy time tickers we could be putting it on to potentially speedrun some otherwise lengthy projects.
 
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Honestly I'm kind of against developing a stockpile of Infantry gear using Exotics at the moment. Ships are going to Eat those and as a Craftworld, aka Space Nomads, getting our fleet back up to par should take priority.

Now making Brigadine, hard suits, and non exotic weapons, I'm supportive of.

If we're fighting the Orks on Infantry scale, we're doing it wrong.
 
Karugus said:
There's plenty of gear we can roll out as is. And our units are incredibly, insanely under equipped on all fronts. From vehicle support to Holo Fields, to hard suits… we're in incredibly bad straits and you're doing precisely nothing to address this while sending the warhosts we do have into the fray.
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On the one hand I agree. On the other hand as far as I can tell there is literally no way in this system for us to just make several hundred holofields and hand them to our troops as they walk out the door to reduce casualties- I had wanted to equip our guys better as was extensively discussed but weird AP functionality appears to make that completely impossible. If it is possible, by all means demonstrate what combination of actions does it.

If it's not possible to give our people better gear this turn we might as well throw our industry as hard as we can at other pressing problems so that when we can make our military work properly we have been freed from distraction.
 
DarkLight140 said:
On the one hand I agree. On the other hand as far as I can tell there is literally no way in this system for us to just make several hundred holofields and hand them to our troops as they walk out the door to reduce casualties- I had wanted to equip our guys better as was extensively discussed but weird AP functionality appears to make that completely impossible. If it is possible, by all means demonstrate what combination of actions does it.

If it's not possible to give our people better gear this turn we might as well throw our industry as hard as we can at other pressing problems so that when we can make our military work properly we have been freed from distraction.
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It's more "Designing new unit types requires Troop Rationalization, which we need to do first", aside from that, the best we can do is "Civilian Grade Hazardous Environment Gear and self defense weapons". Sure, if we're willing to drain our vaults dry, we can build a billion super carbines, but we still need to assign those to units, we can't just magic up new troop types from the ether or just hand Holofields to random guys as they come off the printer.
 
Alectai said:
It's more "Designing new unit types requires Troop Rationalization, which we need to do first", aside from that, the best we can do is "Civilian Grade Hazardous Environment Gear and self defense weapons". Sure, if we're willing to drain our vaults dry, we can build a billion super carbines, but we still need to assign those to units, we can't just magic up new troop types from the ether or just hand Holofields to random guys as they come off the printer.
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I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I said.

What we want to do is just hand holofields and super carbines to every guy in our military as they come off the printer and march to war so that they're not using flashlights. What we have to do due to system restrictions is shuffle paperwork for the next five years optimizing a theoretical military (that is, taking the Troop Rationalization action) and then spend another five years making it happen a little bit at a time (taking the Raise Detatchment action for every single detatchment we want) before finally being able to send our advanced gear into combat ten years from now (Raise Warhost->Send Forth Armies can be done on the same turn, using our new detatchments).
 
Alectai said:
We also don't get to automatically give everyone Holo-fields either, we have to actually do a refit action, and we can't even do that until we've Rationalized our stuff, because our current Detachments and Warhosts are entirely based on "Shit people had lying around when the sky fell", we need to Rationalize our forces before we can do more than just "Print out more dudes in T-Shirts and Flashlights"

That's why I'm saying "You're putting the cart before the horse" here. There is very little to gain in using our Forge of Vaul to create wargear this turn in particular because we can't even give it to anyone, but there's a lot of lengthy time tickers we could be putting it on to potentially speedrun some otherwise lengthy projects.
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I am fully aware we don't automatically hand them out. I understand how the proses works. Gear we stockpile now is gear we don't have to build the turn we need it. We can produce a lot in a turn, but we are not going to be able to produce everything we will need even if we focus on it to the exclusion of all else. And that is accounting for likely boosts to industrial capacity from repairs.

So we start making what we know we will want later that we can make now. That way we have more available capacity for things we will want and can't make now.
 
Mechanis said:
not typo, but "previously Uncaught math error." this has now been fixed. as has me forgetting to add the Starlances to their gear list.

Lascannons are a cheap point defense option. Not necessarily the best option. (also the naval grade ones are Las-Lances; same technology just bigger. )
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Looks like the Assault Ketch now costs 870 Starcrystals with the Starlance CIWS costing 520, that is roughly equivalent in cost to 11.5 superheavy vehicle Starlances.

Incidentally, if the the "[ ] Rationalize Fleet" option is picked will we get a more detailed breakdown of the performance of ship weapons and systems during that action?

For example, how does our current lascannon point defense compare to the point defense of our contemporaries and just how much better is Starlance or Fatecaster point defense by comparison?
We know that Starlances are something like 3 times as powerful and shoot 4 times as fast as their contemporaries but how does that translate to their ability to shoot down ordinance? Ditto for Fatecaster based PD since those are basically aimbots.

Edit: forgot to vote
[X] Plan: The Fires of War Starts in the Fires of Industry

I know I've said it before but the very first thing that's going to be shot at isn't our infantry, it's our starships. Our ships are in the same boat as our infantry when it comes to survivability, which is to say their survivability is entirely reliant on their ability their avoid getting hit in the first place.
 
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[X] Plan: Strong Foundations Lead to Victory

I like this one. Set up while we have the first turn "spawn protection".
 
[X] Plan: Strong Foundations Lead to Victory

That Plan wins for me, because i find the mental Picture of Vau-Vulkesh fixing itself in just a few years hilarious. Damages? What Damages?

*Proceeds to fix itself and polish of a few Minor Craftworlds on the Side as well*

We really are Tech Support :lol:

 
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