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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan MNKh Edition

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[X]Advocate for Accepting the Terms

Whatever happens, let it be known that the Red Navy has redeemed the honor of Soviet and Russian naval history, prevailing over a foe of greater mass, greater experience, greater prestige and greater close-in ordinance in close-quarters combat.

May this battle live rent-free in Frenchmen's heads forever.

URA!
 
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Ultrackius said:
Edit: biding our time seems like the best of a few bad options here, as much as I deeply want to escalate. I am simply not willing to even discuss the idea of ending support to the resistance
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The text explicitly says that we won't be ending support to the resistance.

Blackstar said:
[]Advocate for Accepting the Terms: The current conflict is a clear loss for Soviet prestige in that escalation has been pushed too far for the assets and military capacity available. Accepting the American concession will mean an inherent reformatting of aid to Algeria along with the intensification of intelligence activities for working around the restrictions. This can still be done without too many compromises and the reduction of tensions can reduce the damage to the economy done by mobilization orders. Further, Seymonov is unlikely to react over-zealous and will likely take the concession in mind in the sure-to-come political infighting.
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We just have to be less obvious about it.
 
[X]Advocate for Accepting the Terms

In other news Klim is having a normal one and may have broken his title of "The Sane Normal one" in our list of ministers.
 
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winters_eve said:
like it is literally just because of random chance and numbers
even the qm is also surprised because it takes some extremely unlucky rolls to fuck up a very simple task
we literally do not vote on the dice numbers
should we switch to 2 die 50 instead of 1 dice 100 to make rolls smoother and not likely to get such extremes?
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No, because there is no reason to. Swingy d100 outcomes are normal and part of the process of not being able to predict what will happen. If we make risky choices, some percent of them will end badly. That's expected. If you don't like it, don't support risky choices.

people have openly stated Algeria and Algerian lives do not matter in this vote so obviously some people are going to vehemently disagree and vote in defense of the Algerians and this simply is not a bad thing
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Do Soviet lives matter? Does risking everything in a possible nuclear war against people who quite sincerely believe they are justified in launching a nuclear attack against you matter?

The lesson of the Cold War is plain. In a world where both sides have H-bombs and sincerely believe that total annihilation would be preferable to total surrender, "Never Back Down" gets you and everyone you love killed.

Ultrackius said:
Not a tankie! Don't like Stalin or the historical Soviets very much. Just committed to a hawkish foreign policy based on both ideology and practicality
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It ain't practicality if it gets you and everyone you love killed.

Ultrackius said:
That's got to be good, I don't recall him being a major hawk
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Yes, but conversely, if Hubert Humphrey is the one screaming at us and demanding that we pay reparations and make concessions, it means we done fucked up.

Parzival95 said:
We rolled the French and showed our anti-imperialist creds. I got what I wanted, and if the French genocide the Algerians to the last child over this, that's on them. The Soviets can say they tried their best and it wasn't enough and the French are responsible for their own atrocities.
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During World War Two there was a wisecrack, inspired by how the Soviets were engaged in brutal, horrific fighting on the Eastern Front at a time when the Western Allies had largely not come to grips with their Germany.

"Churchill and Roosevelt are adamantly determined to fight Hitler to the last Russian man."

Would-be colonial independence movements are going to be looking at us and thinking "gee, I wonder if the Russians are planning to fight France/Britain/America/Whoever to the last of our people?"

An ally who backs you into a corner where you will be exterminated is not necessarily a good friend.
 
Acc. No. 1409 said:
[X]Advocate for Accepting the Terms

In other news Klim is having a normal one and may have broken his title of "The Sane Normal one" our list of ministers.
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Now announcing to the threadviet my theory that our presence literally eats away at the sanity of our ministers. The quester brainworms are too powerful. I expect this to be announced as canon by blackstar in 1984. /j
 
Getting the American tac nukes out of Europe is quite a reasonable trade here, and avoiding nuclear war is a worthwhile cause in and of itself.

[X]Advocate for Accepting the Terms
 
Adronio said:
The text explicitly says that we won't be ending support to the resistance.



We just have to be less obvious about it.
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Yeah but that means less get through most likely, we need to flood the place with guns
Simon_Jester said:
No, because there is no reason to. Swingy d100 outcomes are normal and part of the process of not being able to predict what will happen. If we make risky choices, some percent of them will end badly. That's expected. If you don't like it, don't support risky choices.


Do Soviet lives matter? Does risking everything in a possible nuclear war against people who quite sincerely believe they are justified in launching a nuclear attack against you matter?

The lesson of the Cold War is plain. In a world where both sides have H-bombs and sincerely believe that total annihilation would be preferable to total surrender, "Never Back Down" gets you and everyone you love killed.

It ain't practicality if it gets you and everyone you love killed.

Yes, but conversely, if Hubert Humphrey is the one screaming at us and demanding that we pay reparations and make concessions, it means we done fucked up.

During World War Two there was a wisecrack, inspired by how the Soviets were engaged in brutal, horrific fighting on the Eastern Front at a time when the Western Allies had largely not come to grips with their Germany.

"Churchill and Roosevelt are adamantly determined to fight Hitler to the last Russian man."

Would-be colonial independence movements are going to be looking at us and thinking "gee, I wonder if the Russians are planning to fight France/Britain/America/Whoever to the last of our people?"

An ally who backs you into a corner where you will be exterminated is not necessarily a good friend.
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I mean I think that'll probably be avoided by the whole "they fucked up the French navy for us" thing
 
Say what you will about Hubert Humphry, I think the man has a good chance here to go down in history here: Acting to defuse tensions between France and the Soviets and thereby, should he succeed, becoming instrumental in preventing nuclear war, as basically his final act in office.

I feel like there are very few roads out of this that do not leave him, personally, a American legend at this point. Just a question of whether that becomes "in success" or "in failure."
 
Will to move weapons though our African Ally and Egypt and such it seems now, but hey the Americans are moving there nukes from the European theater which is good for us but also sounds like a clear sign that they are mad at the French?
 
Acc. No. 1409 said:
Well I admire the commitment if nothing else.
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I shan't back down when the cause is righteous, the fact that Africa is still being oppressed by European powers is unforgivable, if it takes atomic annihilation to free Africa and the world of Imperialism, then so be it.

Ultrackius said:
Yeah but that means less get through most likely, we need to flood the place with guns
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Solution, ''sell'' guns to Gaddafi, he can then ''lose'' the guns which magically end up in Algeria. That or we fund rebels in other parts of the French empire.
 
Ultrackius said:
I strongly disagree with this reading of the Cold War. The lesson it gives in my mind is in a battle of superpowers of that level you can never back down or let up because even the smallest advantage leads to massive power balances in the long run. OTL the Soviets were about as passive as they could possibly be while maintaining their sphere, and it killed them, while the Americans were active in disrupting the Soviet sphere and aligning others, and it won them the conflict


Edit: biding our time seems like the best of a few bad options here, as much as I deeply want to escalate. I am simply not willing to even discuss the idea of ending support to the resistance
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Seconding this. As Disco Elysium teaches us "the bourgeosie are not human" and we shouldn't expect them to treat with us in good faith.

[X]Advocate for Biding Time
 
I wonder if this would fuck over the French? You know their hawks are screaming to launch now before we can preempt them. Dropping the whole thing for a token and then losing American nukes on top of it...
 
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