Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] Plan A Morbifying Ore Deal
[X] Plan A Morbifying Ore Deal (ore deal not included)
[X] Plan An Enchanting Study Date with Panoramia
[X] Plan Redshirt v1: Infrastructure Focus
 
No need to speculate about whether Archaon's victory was inevitable, we already had Archaon's invasion of the Old World. It happened in 2004 with the Storm of Chaos, and Archaon was killed by Grimgor outside Middenheim. The entire 2nd Edition of WFRP is set in the aftermath of it. GW rolled back a decade of lore to give Archaon a mulligan with the End Times. That makes the entire idea that it was always predestined seem ridiculous to me.
Chaos only got to Middenheim because of massive author fiat, which tells us that inevitable victory was indeed intended but further confirms it certainly wasn't actually inevitable.
 
I've got an idea for what Eike's assignment in Lothern could be. "I'll be back in 100 days, here's $50, make it take as long as you can for me to find you when I'm done fighting dark elves.". Very open ended, it lets her mostly choose how she spends her time, but also gives her an educational task and lets us maybe peek at her intrigue stat. It also starts off the same kind of good-natured adversarial games Mathilde plays with her dad her Master.
 
Not to pick on you specifically, but this sentiment in general that I've seen a fair few times recently is... not wrong, but incomplete. Another way to see the exact same events is the Ice Witches having been forced to show how far they've fallen by being unable to scrape up a single Ice Witch that is both seasoned and literate, and when they chose literate, they ended up feeding the poor girl into the jaws of an ancient ancestral enemy, giving a monster that spent centuries dunking on the Gospodars a chance to do it repeatedly in front of the collected magical traditions of the continent. A grand opportunity for prestige and peacocking has withered on the vine.
I've been thinking about this more. It implies a lot about the state of the Ice Court and reveals that weakness not just to the world, but to Boris as well. Does Ljiljana even speak for Ice Witches beyond her little band? Realm of the Ice Queen presented them as being fractious even under Katarin. I imagine they were even more so before Boris began restoring the realm.

Zlata never should have been an option. It wasn't a mistake of Boney, but it shows the weakness of Kislev's Ice Witches. All of the other possible contributors to the Project had a lot more qualifications than her. Pan's father knew the history of the Druids. The heir of House Tindomiel had political connections in the Project's host and could probably call upon his House's experts, like how Hatalath can get the help of the Grey Lords. Ljiljana obviously knows more Ice Witches than the band, she even knows at least one enough for her to have been an option for the Project: Evelina Bebchuk. But still, there should have have enough Ice Witches and have their respect enough to have them as an option over Zlata. Even in decline, the Ice Witches hold the favor of the boyars and span an entire nation.

I can see three possibilities about the state of the Ice Witches. That they are extremely fracticious and Ljiljana only knows a small faction. They could also have extremely low numbers and Ljiljana kept Zlata in mind because there genuinely aren't that many Ice Witches in general. I think it's a mixture.

I wonder what results Zlata's performance have on Boris's impression of the Ice Witches too. The Hag Witches are the tradition of the Ungols and Boris is of the Gospodar. And they sent someone who hasn't even graduated to a full Ice Witch to a project hoping to restore the Waystone Network? He'll probably still marry an Ice Witch, but I imagine he isn't too impressed.
 
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I wonder what results Zlata's performance have on Boris's impression of the Ice Witches too. The Hag Witches are the tradition of the Ungols and Boris is of the Gospodar. And they sent someone who hasn't even graduated to a full Ice Witch to a project hoping to restore the Waystone Network? He'll probably still marry an Ice Witch, but I imagine he isn't too impressed.
I suppose it depends on what he actually hears back about it. Boris isn't omniscient, and a report that says "Waystones making great progress, Ice Witches included on many research projects" is both true and something that Zlata would send home. Niedzwenka would laugh and call Zlata a child among adults, but then she'd do that regardless of who they sent and Boris knows that. Mathilde spoke only briefly to him last turn and both times they had issues slightly more pressing to discuss.
 
It suddenly occurs to me that working with the hochlander would actually be an excellent thing for Eike to be doing while we're on the elfcation, so I think I'll go with the enchantment-focused lesson plan for this turn while leaving the hochlander workstudy for next turn.

[X] Plan Ithilmar, Enchantment and Exploration Language Edition
 
in this context, the big winner of the peacocking games where the hedgewise.

ya, the elf and dwarfs did well, but everyone as expecting that, it's not a shock that The New York Yankees and Manchester United did well.

But the Milwaukee Brewers (hedgewise) just got to strut their stuff in a way no one in the magical community (except maybe the greys and some ice witches) could have expected.

its going to be hard to not recognise them as a legitimate magic system in their own right new instead of dismissing them as just a collection of petty casters who 'don't know how to do it properly '
If anything the Elfs have kind of underperformed. Yes they have presented some good work but their stuff is consistently the option least able to scale.
 
We haven't actually looked at any of the other groups stuff for insights.
No Kislev tributaries or network.
No Laurelorn tributaries or network.
Maybe get something from Karaz Ankor network this turn.
 
[X] Plan Ithilmar, Enchantment and Exploration Language Edition
[X] Plan Pondering Orbs and Nuts (no Eike on KAU)
 
Wait what? I thought Magnus wielded Ghal Maraz against Asavar Kul?
Nah. Common misconception. He arose during the 3 Emps period but was not one of the claiments. He was actually not a high noble (I think Baron) of Nuln and cobbled together a force to help Kislev. But he wasn't made Emps until after since y'know he shish-kabobed an Everchosen and was backed up by the Tsvarina and Teclis and the ENTIRE ARMY who followed him.

Edit: Man was endorsed by Ulric too, before he went north, by stepping into the White Flame in Middenheim (which shut up most of his detractors who thought he might've been a agent of Chaos)
Bruh really posted up against Asavar Kul with a normal sword and spear.
 
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I suppose it depends on what he actually hears back about it. Boris isn't omniscient, and a report that says "Waystones making great progress, Ice Witches included on many research projects" is both true and something that Zlata would send home. Niedzwenka would laugh and call Zlata a child among adults, but then she'd do that regardless of who they sent and Boris knows that. Mathilde spoke only briefly to him last turn and both times they had issues slightly more pressing to discuss.
Thanks to picklepikkl I was able to simply count the actions we had put her on. We've taken eight waystone options that are vaguely related to research. So fat that's basically all the non-recruitment/mapping/deployment options. We put her on five of them, which is a decent amount. Of them the only thing I thing she did anything helpful on was on leylines and that was just saying that leylines are reversible or bidirectional.

Even if she develops an Ice Witch tributary ritual, it's probably not going to be very good. And worst part is we might need to take an action so it could even be used in Kislev.

(Edit: I forgot to include the rest of the response. He's not omniscient yeah, but Zlata being a bad choice was something he knew from the start. He'd also be able to tell if the waystones end up not using Ice Witch components. And this dunking isn't in private either. It's something that would spread among Laurelorn's leadership. This seems like something he could find out.)

In retrospect we probably should have put her on Runes. I'm sure the Ice Witches had at one point looked over the elf waystones and that rune seems like something that they would have investigated at one point. Sure, Zlata didn't know about it, but obviously she wouldn't. She could have gone around asking other Ice Witches for that information. As poorly as it went when we tried it.

If anything the Elfs have kind of underperformed. Yes they have presented some good work but their stuff is consistently the option least able to scale.
I object to this, a lot. The Grey Lord orbital enchantment is brilliant and is at least comparable to the Dwarf clockwork. Hatalath (re?)invented the Carving method for the Rune, which can basically be done by anyone in comparison to the expertise the other components will take. The Stone Flower is pretty good, not really worse than the other two Capstone options. Sarvoi didn't provide any components, but he was incredibly informative in the updates. He's the one who told us about waystones orbiting winds around Dhar. He also has talked a lot about things that Hatalath wouldn't and has helped us get information out of Hatalath (unknowingly or not). Cadaeth (who is sorta an elf) also invented the tributary method that made Eltharion happy enough to share the waystone codes.
 
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Nah, for two reasons: 1)He wasn't Emperor yet, only being elected after the war, and 2) the real Ghal Maraz had been lost for centuries and only got recovered during the reign of Karl Franz
That second one is not necessarily the case in quest-canon. In fact, I'd imagine it'd be rather hard for it to be true.
 
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Nah, for two reasons: 1)He wasn't Emperor yet, only being elected after the war, and 2) the real Ghal Maraz had been lost for centuries and only got recovered during the reign of Karl Franz
I don't think that second thing is true in quest cannon.

It's honestly kinda surprising that he wasn't emperor at that point, but I guess with the blessings of the 3 gods of the empire he didn't really need the big hammer.
 
Edit: Man was endorsed by Ulric too, before he went north, by stepping into the White Flame in Middenheim (which shut up most of his detractors who thought he might've been a agent of Chaos)
Bruh really posted up against Asavar Kul with a normal sword and spear.
Was also endorsed by Taal too, at Talabheim.

With that said, I don't think he went at Kul with plain steel. Odds are, his gear was enchanted to some degree, given the captain of his guard also carried an enchanted spear:

"This silver-headed spear was forged in the Pyramid of Light during the Great War Against Chaos. Blucher, the captain of Magnus the Pious' personal guard, carried it into battle, where the spear proved most effective against Daemons. When the war was won, Blucher returned to his home village and a hero's welcome. After the victory celebration, Chaos cultists murdered Blucher and stole the Spear of the Hierophant. It has never been seen again." - Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, 2nd Edition, page 169.
 
While they've been short on deliverables, there's been at least three or four things that would have been an action to investigate if the Elves weren't there to just outright tell you what the deal was with it.
I object to this, a lot. The Grey Lord orbital enchantment is brilliant and is at least comparable to the Dwarf clockwork. Hatalath (re?)invented the Carving method for the Rune, which can basically be done by anyone in comparison to the expertise the other components will take. The Stone Flower is pretty good, not really worse than the other two Capstone options. Sarvoi didn't provide any components, but he was incredibly informative in the updates. He's the one who told us about waystones orbiting winds around Dhar. He also has talked a lot about things that Hatalath wouldn't and has helped us get information out of Hatalath (unknowingly or not). Cadaeth (who is sorta an elf) also invented the tributary method that made Eltharion happy enough to share the waystone codes.
Yes they have allowed us to save a whole bunch of time by consistently having very good prepared theory work which has saved us going down a bunch of dead ends.
 
Man, I step away from the thread for a day and I come back to over twenty pages of discussion to catch up on.

Thanks to @picklepikkl for taking on the unenviable role of vote herder*, I think the plans I want to support are:

[x] Plan Ithilmar, Enchantment and Exploration Language Edition
[x] Plan Ithilmar, Enchantment and Exploration Vlag Edition

*Probably harder than herding cats
I appreciate the shout-out, but I honestly think @Gavin Prince and @ReImagined's resources are better -- the flowchart format works better as an image (and Gavin's is more complete) and ReImagined did a great job of comparing the top two plans, which in a first-past-the-post system are the two things that matter the most. I just posted my thing first.

Also, herding cats really isn't that difficult. Treats will usually do the trick.
 
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Nah, for two reasons: 1)He wasn't Emperor yet, only being elected after the war, and 2) the real Ghal Maraz had been lost for centuries and only got recovered during the reign of Karl Franz
That second one is not necessarily the case in canon. In fact, I'd imagine it'd be rather hard for it to be true.

It's a big snarl of conflicting canon. At one point Sigmar left the hammer behind when he left the Empire, at another point he left it with the Dwarves who returned it an unknown amount of time later, at another what the Dwarves returned was a counterfeit, at another it was stolen at some point by a Chaos cult and the Cult of Sigmar had a counterfeit made to keep it from getting out that they lost it. They tried to smoosh together all the canons in the Turmoil of 2512 thing the same way they did with what Electors there are, but it introduces entirely new problems.

Personally I think having the warhammer that Warhammer has been named after for most of its history turn out to be a fake feels fundamentally wrong.

I don't think that second thing is true in quest cannon.

It's honestly kinda surprising that he wasn't emperor at that point, but I guess with the blessings of the 3 gods of the empire he didn't really need the big hammer.

Magnus was just one nobleborn university student among very many in Nuln at the beginning of the Great War, but when all the portents got dire and cult uprisings kept happening and the twin-tailed comet appeared in the sky and all the Emperor claimants just used it as one more reason to insist everyone should fall in behind them so they can crush the others and then maybe do something about Chaos afterwards, Magnus pretty much said 'fine, I'll do it myself'. He rallied the students and faculty to defeat the cult uprising in Nuln, and then rallied the rest of the city to go on tour, crushing chaos wherever he found it and recruiting more people to his banner the whole way. The demonstration of Godly authority in Altdorf, Talabheim, Middenheim, and Marienburg weren't what got him the army, it's what got the Emperor claimants to fall into line behind the army he already had. It's only after he got back from Kislev with a fantatically loyal and extremely battle-hardened army at his back (including the first generation of what would becomes the Orders of Magic) that the Electors finally reached a consensus and gave him the top job. A lot of them were probably hoping he wouldn't make it back.
 
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Personally I think having the warhammer that Warhammer has been named after for most of its history turn out to be a fake feels fundamentally wrong.
I can see it getting misplaced/stolen/secreted away during the Time of Three Emperors (and Cult of Sigmar having a counterfeit one made in response), but agree on it being fake through the most of Empire's history being dumb.
 
So it's been so long since it was originally discussed, what do Orbs of sorcery actually do within the context of the Quest (as opposed to game stats)?

My vague understanding is that they let you do more powerful magic, and the Colleges currently only have one of each? Are they basically giant batteries for a given Wind? Can they be run dry, or do we now suspect that they can run dry due to how they are created, which might not previously have been known due to them being used infrequently?
 
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