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NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

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Ego_Discite said:
Would it have been, the information seems to be obvious. We knew there was something up with Drysalt, something that made him hard to kill. Evidence, he is still alive. We knew Hasvir "beat him", we knew where we could find him. It seems like we had everything we needed.
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Hasvir was hardcore, but not unbeatable, as Blackhand shows. Thinking we can achieve a specific thing he did not is not unreasonable in and of itself. We knew Drysalt was hard to kill, but hard and impossible are very different things and the distinction is useful. Personally, I'm not actually sure it was worth her death because I can think of ways for her to lead us in the right direction without dying, but maybe she didn't think of those, and if she didn't she obviously couldn't do them.

geogio13 said:
[X] Push on despite the danger (Begins The Heart of the Hading)
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We've moved on to the next vote after that one.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Hasvir bound Drysalt before, so he knows how, but from what IF said Hasvir didn't know that Drysalt was actually unkillable. He presumably knew he was tough, but that much would not have been new information. The only way we find out he's actually unkillable is Solrun, or beating it out of Dorri.

Whether that's worth her death is a different question, but it might well be, depending. We'll definitely go in differently knowing that. We might have had binding him as a backup plan even without that knowledge, but we would have at least tried to kill him outright.
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Yeah, but I'd been working on the assumption that Solrun's secret was how to stop Drysalt. This is much less valuable - essentially just the realisation of the fears that most of the voters already had about fighting him.

alexthealright said:
Would you have preferred finding out *after* we used TSS and hit him with half a dozen Sunfire Spears?
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Yeah, definitely, if the price was Solrun's life.

I mean, we try things in combat and discover they don't work all the time. That's sort of what happens when you play a quest.
 
alexthealright said:
1: Thermal Lance definitely would have been able to kill Steinarr, you would have had to make him use his aspects before you hit him so he couldn't deflect it but it it would have definitely been an option*.

2: *We* *personally* might not have been able to beat him but there was definitely an idea to bring like 50 dudes to help with killing him.

3: Corpsemaker is literally invincible. He definitely could have beaten even someone as powerful as Last Stand Steinarr or someone significantly stronger through attrition.

4: We were absolutely planing on killing him if we could, the fact that we can't is very important to know.

So yes this information is actually worth something.

*TSS and a Sunfire Trick would also have done the job.
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1. I don't think thermal Lance could kill Steinarr, unless he was being an idiot. He is someone that can take on at least 10 of us if not more. If you mean it could physically harm him, sure a knife could too. What matters is if we could stab him with the knife. I don't think we could given his stats, abilities, and experience. All things Drysalt has in spades.

2. See above and below.

3. If corpsemaker is literally invincible, then it doesn't matter if Drysalt is immortal because Corpsemaker could buy us time to seal Drysalt. Which was a plan floating around, we knew something was up and were looking into it.

4. Once again, I don't think this was a realistic goal. Not when we knew that there was probably an alternate win condition.

Finally, I will amend my statement. The information is not worthless is just not very actionable nor does it change our plans that much and we lost Solrun who probs could have helped with the sealing of Drysalt, either by teaching us sealing or just sealing if the oath allowed. I would like to ask if we know hot to seal anything? I don't think we do, which is a big problem.
 
[X] Investigate the Great Ash

To be clear, when I was talking about killing Drysalt before, my plan was never that we'd do it something as simple as our Sunfire tricks or TSS. There were a few ideas I had in mind, but you need to get a bit more creative than that. Anyway, seems to be a moot point now.

Also, semi-relatedly, I'm pretty sure that Solrun is wrong. Or rather, she may believe what she said is true. But are you seriously telling me that if Thor wanted to kill Drysalt, he'd fail? Or Blackhand, for that matter.

This is feels very reminiscent of Steelfather Invulnerability********** all over again. More disclaimers and caveats than being suckered into the extended warranty on a new laptop.
 
Skippy said:
Yeah, but I'd been working on the assumption that Solrun's secret was how to stop Drysalt. This is much less valuable - essentially just the realisation of the fears that most of the voters already had about fighting him.
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It is the way to stop him in general, and the fact that only that method will work. That's relevant. I dunno if it's worth Solrun's life, but it's fairly important.

Skippy said:
Yeah, definitely, if the price was Solrun's life.

I mean, we try things in combat and discover they don't work all the time. That's sort of what happens when you play a quest.
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That one probably means we die. I think a few hints from Solrun that we should bind him rather than kill him would have been enough, but she may not have thought about that or even that might have broken her Oath if it was comprehensive enough.

Ego_Discite said:
Finally, I will amend my statement. The information is not worthless is just not very actionable nor does it change our plans that much and we lost Solrun who probs could have helped with the sealing of Drysalt, either by teaching us sealing or just sealing if the oath allowed. I would like to ask if we know hot to seal anything? I don't think we do, which is a big problem.
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I mean, she gave us a person to go to in order to get that information. Hasvir Hadingshero. Sure, he's dead but we can work with that.

Skippy said:
Also, semi-relatedly, I'm pretty sure that Solrun is wrong.Or rather, she may believe what she said is true. But are you seriously telling me that if Thor wanted to kill Drysalt, he'd fail? Or Blackhand, for that matter.
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IF on Discord specifically noted that Thor couldn't kill him, yeah. He could bat him around like a whiffle ball but he wouldn't die.
 
Y'know. The tricksy aspect of Hasvir makes a lot more sense in this context. The fact that Hadingshero was a clever fighter, an Odin to the typical Thor-like hero.

The more I hear about him, the more I like Hadingshero, which makes the resulting feud...tragic.

I wonder if Hasvir...unsealed Drysalt or if Dorri did so long before.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
It is the way to stop him in general, and the fact that only that method will work. That's relevant. I dunno if it's worth Solrun's life, but it's fairly important.


I mean, she gave us a person to go to in order to get that information. Hasvir Hadingshero. Sure, he's dead but we can work with that.
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1. It isn't a way to stop him though, a way to stop him would be a ritual, or ingredients for a ritual, or that there was a method of control. This is an immunity that we had already guessed.

2. We were already going to go see Hasvir Hadingshero anyway. This literally changes nothing.
 
Just want to clarify, my goal when asking that question was not to re-litigate the past vote or start a salt mining competition. It's in the past, and everyone's votes were made for valid reasons. Would be a bit disappointed if this got really heated.

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
That one probably means we die. I think a few hints from Solrun that we should bind him rather than kill him would have been enough, but she may not have thought about that or even that might have broken her Oath if it was comprehensive enough.
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I mean, we would have almost certainly pumped Hasvir for info on Drysalt regardless, and we would have definitely gone for Plan B for Binding when whatever big Kamehameha we tried didn't work. Without knowing what the showdown is going to look like, it does not seem implausible that we could get Corpsemaker and some other strong allies to keep him busy until we'd gotten Plan B ready to go. It's certainly possible we'd have died (as with all serious fights), and the extra delay as we scrambled might certainly get more people killed, including those we care about. But really there is no basis for saying we'd have "probably" anything, there are too many unknowns.

This is even presuming we would have tried to kill Drysalt first. Given the sheer amount of doomsaying about our chances of killing Drysalt before this fight - which I grudgingly admit was indeed correct whilst I was wrong - I think it is highly likely that if we'd learned a binding from Hasvir, it would have been our Plan A from the outset. In that case, there would be almost no difference between the universe where we learned this and the one where we didn't. Apart from the amount of complaining from me about us not trying to simply kill Drysalt instead. :V

Actually, come to think, can you imagine Solrun's facial expression if we'd gone with my write-in? Truly one of the greatest missed comedic opportunities of the quest.

DeadmanwalkingXI said:
IF on Discord specifically noted that Thor couldn't kill him, yeah. He could bat him around like a whiffle ball but he wouldn't die.
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Now I'm imagining a Drysalt stress ball on Thor's desk. 😅
 
alexthealright said:
When did anyone say "Drysalt is completely invincible." We all agreed he was tough as hell but not to that extent.
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I am fairly sure we talked about something was up with him, either regeneration from death or some kind of spirit being. I don't remember exactly but that doesn't matter because it really isn't the point.

We knew Drysalt was dangerous, enough so that Hasvir Hadingshero could not kill him. Evidence, he is still alive. This landed us to believe he was either sealed, came back from the dead, or was summoned. Either way, out of our league. We weren't going to beat him in a unfair fight where we stacked the deck, let alone one where he had allies which he will.

We know he is out of our league because Hasvir Hadingshero is on par with Hallr Blackhand if I think a younger one. I still think he is to Last Stand Steinarr as LSS is to us. Making Drysalt very dangerous. So dangerous he might as well be immortal. Thus us talking about alternatives. Finding out that he is immortal doesn't change much at all. I would have like to find out how he is immortal, a way to seal him, a way to control him, or something actionable.

What we have learned is that we can't beat him in a fight, which we already kind of expected. We thought he would have monster allies and human ones. So we couldn't just jump him with a kill team because the people in the kill team needed to fight his allies. So Corpsemaker was going to have to fight him alone or just a few people. An uphill battle because I would rate Corpsemaker above Last Stand Steinarr but not above Hasvir Hadingshero or Hallr Blackhand unless I am missing something.
 
The issue at hand is "We weren't aware that Drysalt's Undying nature arguably surpassed that of a Steelfather". A Steelfather is merely arbitrarily tough, but if you can pierce their defenses, they'll still die (And likely stay dead for the same reason they're hard to damage in the first place).

Drysalt Is Actually Deathless. He's a Primordial Being from the time that Ymir was still alive, from before there was anything other than Ginnigugap, he predates Death, and thus it has no power over him. We could bring Thor to the battlefield, and Drysalt is still going to walk away from it. Maybe not happily, but it'll work. Midgard will apparently break long before Drysalt does, evidently.

And I sincerely doubt we'll be allowed to ask many questions, so knowing precisely what Questions we need to ask is of critical importance. We might even only get one, we now know that question is "How do I bind Drysalt again so he can't continue meddling?"
 
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I am going to drop my salt bottle and take up my glasses. I am looking into Norse bindings and spells, and I am not seeing a match. Outcomes don't look too good for us finding the seal on our own.
 
Skippy said:
This is even presuming we would have tried to kill Drysalt first. Given the sheer amount of doomsaying about our chances of killing Drysalt before this fight - which I grudgingly admit was indeed correct whilst I was wrong - I think it is highly likely that if we'd learned a binding from Hasvir, it would have been our Plan A from the outset. In that case, there would be almost no difference between the universe where we learned this and the one where we didn't. Apart from the amount of complaining from me about us not trying to simply kill Drysalt instead. :V
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Still, simply knowing that Drysalt is from a time before Midgard was even a thing is valuable in its own right. He likely plays by an entirely different set of rules than anyone else we could possibly fight. Knowing that ahead of time will likely save lives that would otherwise have fallen due to faulty assumptions.

Also, I think that you are massively overestimating the amount of time Solrun had left. Judging by the lump in her throat that appeared when Halla mentioned her staying with Halla during the winter, I don't think she had long. My guess is that she would have died before winter hit. I think the potential lives saved are worth the slightly sped up death.
 
Ego_Discite said:
An uphill battle because I would rate Corpsemaker above Last Stand Steinarr but not above Hasvir Hadingshero or Hallr Blackhand unless I am missing something.
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Corpsemaker is a Steelfather, and Blackhand still lacked Ilmarinen's Flame when he killed Hasvir, so he might well rank above that version just on the basis of invulnerability.

Hunter531 said:
Also, I think that you are massively overestimating the amount of time Solrun had left. Judging by the lump in her throat that appeared when Halla mentioned her staying with Halla during the winter, I don't think she had long. My guess is that she would have died before winter hit. I think the potential lives saved are worth the slightly sped up death.
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I think she had a bit more time than that...but we're talking a year or two, not five. Like, I think the lump was about spending her last year or two with us, not 'never getting to winter'. Narratively, I think she would have lived to be reunited with Kolla, which was next Summer. How far beyond that she'd last is hard to predict.
 
Hunter531 said:
Still, simply knowing that Drysalt is from a time before Midgard was even a thing is valuable in its own right. He likely plays by an entirely different set of rules than anyone else we could possibly fight. Knowing that ahead of time will likely save lives that would otherwise have fallen due to faulty assumptions.
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This is undoubtedly true.

Drysallt is ancient beyond the ken of men, a creature of legend, a beast from an antediluvian age before the current age of the world.

Now at least we know what we're fighting:

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Ego_Discite said:
An uphill battle because I would rate Corpsemaker above Last Stand Steinarr but not above Hasvir Hadingshero or Hallr Blackhand unless I am missing something.
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Because he's-
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Corpsemaker is a Steelfather, and Blackhand still lacked Ilmarinen's Flame when he killed Hasvir, so he might well rank above that version just on the basis of invulnerability.
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Yeah that. It doesn't matter how much more powerful you are on paper if you can't actually hurt your opponent.
 
[X] Investigate the remnants of those that came before

I dont think that info was worth Solruns life. We would have run our plans for fighting Drysalt by her anyways and she could have just said "not gonna work" without explaining further and we'd go back to the drawing board until we got the go ahead.
 
Ranan said:
I dont think that info was worth Solruns life. We would have run our plans for fighting Drysalt by her anyways and she could have just said "not gonna work" without explaining further and we'd go back to the drawing board until we got the go ahead.
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It's possible even that much would have broken the oath. I'm not super sure it was worth it, but IF pretty explicitly said there was no way to work around it and get the info. She was young and dumb, the oath sworn may have been pretty expansive.
 
Ranan said:
[X] Investigate the remnants of those that came before

I dont think that info was worth Solruns life. We would have run our plans for fighting Drysalt by her anyways and she could have just said "not gonna work" without explaining further and we'd go back to the drawing board until we got the go ahead.
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We were told that the real details were so obtuse that there was no way to get it out of her without violating the Oath. Presumably the Oath is so strict that even her commenting on the matter counts as breaking it.

Which seems like it was a really absurd Oath. Mind you, it was hiding a really major secret, A Monster being actually Deathless is a hard counter to the vast majority of the Norse Meta, where "If you don't like something, you can just kill it." That's out the window, which means esoterica is the only solution, and simply knowing that he can be Sealed under the right circumstances narrows down how far we need to look dramatically.
 
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Ego_Discite said:
I am going to drop my salt bottle and take up my glasses. I am looking into Norse bindings and spells, and I am not seeing a match. Outcomes don't look too good for us finding the seal on our own.
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I'm thinking a visit to Gabriel may be in order. Christians, and followers of Abrahamic religions in general, are pretty good at binding and sealing stuff. We owe him a visit to inform him of Steinarr's death anyways. Drysalt is partially responsible for him losing out on his chance of righteous vengeance against Steinarr.
 
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