Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting will open in 4 hours, 52 minutes
...okay I'm actually a bit concerned about rushing the canal in time for the Everchosen. I really want to not accidentally waste all the preparation that'll be going into that.
With help from the empire and Karak Ankor it can be done pretty fast. Kislev has man power but lack funds and expertise. Also all 3 working together would be a good thing for everyone and build ties that can be expanded on.
The problem is that help from the Empire might be politically untenable from a Kislevite perspective.
 
Anyways, while I'm not voting for the canal, I still prefer it over basing rights. The canal is "forever", but the basing rights can be lost when a new king comes to power.

Similarly, we probably want the canal to be finished relatively quickly. If Boris dies (battles/assassination/sickness/etc.) before it's completed, his successor might not complete it (cost, politics, finding out it was payment for a "crime", etc).
 
With help from the empire and Karak Ankor it can be done pretty fast. Kislev has man power but lack funds and expertise. Also all 3 working together would be a good thing for everyone and build ties that can be expanded on.

Boney has pointed out that the reason we are asking a head of state is that their resources vastly dwarf our own, there is no further aid that we can provide which would be relevant.
 
My strong guess is that what Boris would do, left alone, is focus on pure military buildup, which is an extremely reasonable choice for him to make.
That is not like Boris at all. His father did a lot to push gribblies from Kislev. Boris is the one who rebuilt Kislev. It might be different now, as in canon there were not signs of the Thirteenth Everchosen approaching. I trust Boris to be a good judge about what is best for Kislev.

Would the Kislev canal take longer or shorter than the canal that's just finishing?
Longer, possibly significantly longer. The other canal was shorter and was done by Dwarfs, but it was done in difficult terrain. This canal is either going to be fifty or a hundred miles long. It's not a short distance at all. It took the British about a decade to dig a similarly-sized canal in the 1700s. I would guess it would take longer than that for Kislev, it shouldn't have the tools Britain did.
 
Would the Kislev canal take longer or shorter than the canal that's just finishing?
It depends on how fully Boris commits to getting it done. As an absolute monarch he can pour as much manpower as he wants into it, but at some point that comes at the cost of gold (in not having those people elsewhere) and blood (overworking labour in a back-breaking job). His honour (and respect/fear of Mathilde) means that he will get this done, but we've deliberately not specified a timeframe.
 
I'd say part of what the Canal Boon is purchasing is trust.

Even if this use of the boon is beneficial to Kislev, part of that benefit comes from relying on the Empire - the trade benefits, greater ease of sending military aid to Kislev, etc.

It's possible for it to be rational for Kislev to not do this on its own(because of not having enough trust in the Empire yet), despite it actually being in Kislev's best interests.
 
Back when we first learned Eike is interested in naval tactics there was some talk about maybe taking the 'Improve and expand the EIC's paramilitary river navy' and having Eike tag along, which I was and still am against because there's actually some stuff we want to do with the EIC right now and the EIC's river security is pretty much fine already. Well guess what suddenly became relevant?

Now, I'm not saying we take the relevant EIC action because it's still a very low priority and in the near future we have way more pressing matters for the EIC (the fog road, possibly one or two more trade deals with the Eonir, maybe some espionage), but we could probably have Eike do it as part of her personal lessons. We've been warned that we should not assume that Eike will actually achieve Mathilde level of results when we let her do stuff like that and that we should just think of it as a lesson for Eike, but that's fine because there's really no rush and we'll have plenty of time to worry about the security of the hypothetical EIC presence in the non-existent canal. It'll also be a good test of character for Eike:

Will Eike manage to stay on the ball and focus on the EIC's river navy, or will she keep getting distracted by the new connection between the Empire and the Sea of Claws, turning her reports into nothing more than elaborate naval fanfics?

My main problem with this idea is that Eike still got no intrigue lessons and we're going two years into her Grey Wizard apprenticeship, this is a travesty and we should all be ashamed of ourselves. Maybe we can also make this assignment intrigue related? Something like analyzing what new opportunities this whole canal business will open up for the EIC's intellgence network and how to best exploit them, in addition to thinking about military threats and piracy and such?

No reason why we can't kill two birds with one stone here.

We already know Marienburg is going to flip their lids when news of this canal comes out, no matter how reasonable Fooger is - he himself said there's a limit to how much he can limit umgi short-term greed. Given that openly attacking the canal project won't be viable, there is absolutely going to be Intrigue attacks against it.

Assign Eike to Intrigue counter-intelligence on the canal project. For extra motivation, tell her that if she fails and Marienburg succeeds, she will never see the empirepedia article on Sea of Claws naval battles expanded by adding to it in her lifetime and the EIC will never be able to compete in the north.

Sounds like pretty good Intrigue training to me.
 
[X] [BLOOD] Empire (Canal linking the Urskoy and Lynsk)
[X] [BLOOD] Kislevite military aid in reclaiming the fallen Nexuses of the Forest of Shadows
[X] [BLOOD] Empire (Docking rights in Erengrad for Imperial military and commercial ships)
[X] [ULTHUAN] Cooperation
 
RE: EIC actions, I really think we should take the "Improve and expand the EIC's paramilitary river navy" action next turn and have Eike just go wild on that. The Empire's gonna see an increase in riverine bandits from the Black Water canal, and we should stay on top of that for the sake of the Empire (and also our wallet). We don't have to rush to put agents on Kislev unless we want a rumor mill from its cities (which we might, later on, but right now it's not super urgent).

I wouldn't mind spending a personal action on training Eike's intrigue, though. She has benefited a lot from just shadowing us, I want to see what Mathilde teaches on a focused level.

Mathilde was found at ten, not eleven, which is at the very young end of the spectrum (per the WoB post you cited).
I imagine the only ones discovered younger than that would be those rare few children who themselves have at least one magic-using parent, like Mandred (age 7!) or the druidic families - for all we know Panoramia realized she'd learn magic around that time too.

This is only true if you assume that Boris is capable of perfect discernment of what is best for Kislev. Humans are frequently muddled in their thinking and do suboptimal things even by the standards of their sincerely-held values, or lack necessary information because they do not have perfect understanding of all the relevant factors. Furthermore, "what is best for Kislev" changes as you change your optimization horizon: optimizing over a two-year horizon and a twenty-year horizon will lead to very different actions. My strong guess is that what Boris would do, left alone, is focus on pure military buildup, which is an extremely reasonable choice for him to make. If he diverts some resources to instead tackle a canal project, then Kislev is weaker in the short term but much stronger once the canal's benefits have had time to be felt. Which one of these is "better" for Kislev depends a lot on your assumptions.
Also, people don't necessarily come up with good ideas just because they're in a position of power. We assassinated Vladimir some months ago and it still took us up until the second day of the voting moratorium to jump on the idea - and we're a lot of people brainstorming. Boris is just one guy and he doesn't run a trading company, so there was no guarantee that he'd have thought of it himself when he has so much else on his plate.

Would the Kislev canal take longer or shorter than the canal that's just finishing?
Probably a lot shorter - the Black Water canal also involved a series of locks (which are harder) and the terrain was less favorable. It was also a dwarven-led work, so there was probably more focus on safety and reliability than on speed. There was also also the Marienburg bandits, the mysterious disease outbreak we never followed up on, and the Skull River ambush. It can't be said that it had no delays.

The Urskoy-Lynsk would be longer, but Kislev does not lack in manpower. It would be through very friendly territory and easier terrain, and Boris would hopefully be wise enough to learn lessons from the Black Water and make sure nobody so much as looks funny at the canal.
 
Depending on what new EIC actions are available next turn, I'd like to assign her and the Hochlander to set up spies somewhere.

Or maybe we could have her try to find any evidence of wrongdoing in the EIC? Though that might be more Stewardship than Intrigue.

I'd love to take her along on missions Mathilde is doing herself, but it's hard to think of something level-appropriate for her unless we are just devoting a full AP to teaching her Intrigue.
If assisting the consturction of the fog path ends up being an EIC action - I think Boney said he's considering it but hasn't decided yet - then that's probably going to be our action. Eike should come along on that one too since it's an enchanting project and she has talent in that area (maybe we can get her that last 1/2 in enchanting), but obviously that will do nothing for her intrigue education. If its not an EIC there's still two trade opportunities with the Eonir, the ore and the Ithilmar thing. I'm not in favour of the Ithilmar personally but there's defintely some who are into that, and the ore trade idea got a lot more tempting because of the new canal. All of this is to say that I don't see us spending an EIC action on spying next turn.

I did have the idea of using the records and intellgence network the EIC has to try and find anything suspicious in those that worked with House Akkerman, kind of like we went after those that traded with the vampires - though obviously in this case we can't send everyone who ever traded with them to the pyres, we'll need to prove a connection to or knowledge of the Pleasure Cult. I'm not sure how likely we are to actually get anything out of this, but maybe it could give Eike a chance to work on something practical with the Hochlander.
For extra motivation, tell her that if she fails and Marienburg succeeds, she will never see the empirepedia article on Sea of Claws naval battles expanded by adding to it in her lifetime and the EIC will never be able to compete in the north.
Harsh, but fair.

Yeah, the counter-intellegence idea seems good. I do want this to go along with considering mudane military threats, because Eike does have an interest in naval warfare it'll be a shame not to do something with that. Maybe something like: "Analyze the threats and opportunities, both overt and covert, that the EIC will face if it will expand its operations into the Kislev river system via the new proposed canal. Suggest how the EIC's navy and intelligence network should prepare for those new circumstances. "
 
Last edited:
My strong guess is that what Boris would do, left alone, is focus on pure military buildup, which is an extremely reasonable choice for him to make. If he diverts some resources to instead tackle a canal project, then Kislev is weaker in the short term but much stronger once the canal's benefits have had time to be felt. Which one of these is "better" for Kislev depends a lot on your assumptions.
He explicitly rebuilt shit in canon. Like yeah, he bolstered the military and went on several campaigns but i think this is selling him short.

His reign was a period of cultural and national revival, and from what we have seen, we have not butterflied that away.
 
Last edited:
Well, now I'm finally properly caught up, can't say I ever expected to derive so much enjoyment out of fictional canal construction, but here we are.

I suppose the difference between this one and the last one is previously we were eagerly awaiting it's completion to revolutionise Old World trading and dunk on Marienburg. This time we've already broken Marienburg's monopoly once, then immediately announced a follow up canal project to further dunk on them. The resultant ongoing terror of potentially infinite subsequent canals is reward enough on its own.

[X] [BLOOD] Empire (Canal linking the Urskoy and Lynsk)
[X] [ULTHUAN] Cooperation

Whatever Boris is expecting, it probably wasn't this. Or the Emperor or Chamberlain of the Seal. Just... here's a major infrastructure project with far reacher positive economic consequences for the Old World Except Marienburg, immediately on the heels of the last one. Have fun!
 
So what plan changing coming for next turn? Since we probably have to take action to debrief and brief Ulthuan.
* Orbs
* A Waystone prototype that now maybe uses the Ulthuan passcodes for making a leyline instead of the riverine options
* Arguments over whether or not to spend a personal AP to finish the AV book in one turn

* KAU copies another library. Probably the Aquila Academy
* EIC either to have Mathilde babysit the enchanters, or expand its network, or the Ithilmar action

Anything else is up in the air. Sevirophone research? Nexus or KA-Network exploration? Codifying Knightbringer? Iron Orc scouting? Arcane Mark Masteries? Tributary rollout in Laurelorn? Try to learn Hedgecraft from the Ranaldite Hedgewise? Set up a wrestling competition between Johann and the Ogres over Titan-Metal rights?

We've got a few spare APs and there'll be the usual fight over where to put them.
 
Last edited:
You can't use a dispel scroll (or equivalent) against spells cast with irresistable force.
Well, there was that one rune introduced in War of Vengeance/the Beard ruleset... But it would be a master rune
Obviously Eike got basic training as a junior apprentice, but are we seriously going to settle for the basic training she got? Mathilde 27 intrigue Weber isn't going to teach her apprentice to be sneaky? What is the world coming to?
To the deepest, darkest depths of AP Hell.
Mathilde: You will be able to take the magister exams when I'm done with you.
Eike: "runs away anyway"
Mathilde: " It took me more then a day to catch up. Maybe you are ready."
 
Mathilde: I wouldn't describe myself as a staunch Imperial or anything, I don't have that much attachment to the Empire so much as I just think it's a better alternative to the whole thing collapsing.

Also Mathilde: Fuck Marienburg, filthy merchants profiting off of blood shed by sons of the Empire, all my homies hate Marienburg.
 
[X] [ULTHUAN] Cooperation
[X] [BLOOD] Empire (Canal linking the Urskoy and Lynsk)

Wouldn't asking the leader of another polity to interfere in the inner political workings of the Empire cause some issues? Potentially even backfiring and losing support for Mandred since they'll be resentment/concern that Mandred might be beholden to another nation for its role in his ascension to Emperor?
Quick but this is why I, and pretty sure several others, are against the idea. And yes, as mentioned he could try and be subtle about it but being subtle would probably involve getting super into the weeds of inter Imperial politics which would take a lot of the Tzars personal time given the sensitivity--cant delegate as much as you could with the Canal, a military force, etc.

Mathilde: I wouldn't describe myself as a staunch Imperial or anything, I don't have that much attachment to the Empire so much as I just think it's a better alternative to the whole thing collapsing.

Also Mathilde: Fuck Marienburg, filthy merchants profiting off of blood shed by sons of the Empire, all my homies hate Marienburg.
Lmao don't forget the disdain about those greedy mercenary Elementalists too!
 
I think most likely the KAU action will be sourcing language teachers for our scribes. Boney said that the University of Nuln is very... patriotic, so it doesn't have stuff from other nations or languages, but we can't necessarily expect the same of the other libraries of Nuln. For instance, the Aquila Academy is a very Tilean organization. It wouldn't be weird at all if they had Classical texts in there.
 
I'd also kind of like to have an AP spent on our own language-learning. Either Nehekharan to open up those research options, or Kislevarin so we can finally stop trying to get by with "HALLO, MY CALLING WEBER MATHILDE IS. I AM EXPERIENCING PLEASURE IN THIS MEETING OF YOU." on the occasions we often seem to find ourselves spending time up north.
 
Last edited:
Mathilde: I wouldn't describe myself as a staunch Imperial or anything, I don't have that much attachment to the Empire so much as I just think it's a better alternative to the whole thing collapsing.

Also Mathilde: Fuck Marienburg, filthy merchants profiting off of blood shed by sons of the Empire, all my homies hate Marienburg.

I don't think we, and by extention Mathilde, really had any beef with Marienburg until the whole Skull River Incident and blockade threats, both of which would piss off Dwarves about as much. Which fits Mathilde completely :p

Well, that and I think a longpost Boney(?) made about the various ways Marienburg was fucking over the Empire and hence why the Empire's naval doctrine was 'Fuck Marienburg', at which point it was memed into the thread conciousness permanently. Good times.
 
Can I just say, I love the low level current in the thread and in universe of, "Mathilde's obviously not going to abandon everything she cares about to embrace dark magic, but if she *did*, she'd blow all those other losers out of the water."
My name is Mathilde Weber. I'm 40 years old. My house is in the peak of Karag Nar, where all the villas are, and I am not married. (Though I am dating.) I work as an employee for the Grey College, and I get home every day by 8 PM at the latest. I don't smoke, but I occasionally drink. I'm in bed by 11 PM, and make sure I get eight hours of sleep, no matter what. After having a glass of warm ale and doing about twenty minutes of greatsword practice before going to bed, I usually have no problems sleeping until morning. Just like a baby, I wake up without any fatigue or stress in the dawn. I was told there were no issues at my last check-up. I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very unseen life. I take care not to trouble myself with any enemies for long, like winning and losing, that would cause me to lose sleep at night. That is how I deal with society, and I know that is what brings me happiness. Although, if I were to use dark magic I wouldn't lose to anyone.
 
Voting will open in 4 hours, 52 minutes
Back
Top