NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

Imperial Fister said:

That's the second time you've posted that in response to a height chart lmao

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Well in all honesty, whilst I love the energy, personally I I find the idea that advanced Odr Cultivators are literally the size of ASoIaF giants kind of breaks my suspension of disbelief. (I think Giant Blooded making people eight feet tall is kind of silly too, FWIW; many Jotuns in stories were regular height, and you can have super strength and vitality without being eight feet tall.) A ten foot tall guy is going to weigh five times as much as a six foot tall guy with the same body proportions. It shoots outside the realms of impressive and car crashes straight into absurdity when you actually try to picture them standing in a room or existing in the same space as other people.

Plus at a certain point, extreme height stops being a cool trait and just becomes something similar to living with a serious disability. Does Jarl Corpsemaker need to use a specially made seat when he has to go to the latrine? Is he able to sit on regular benches or chairs? Step inside a normal house or onto a normal-sized boat?

It was kind of silly when Dan Abnett did it with the Primarchs in Warhammer 40,000, but that was 40k so it's got that silly crackhead-driving-the-uber energy already. In this quest, where I tend to try and invest myself more into the characters, I find picturing height differences on that scale takes me right out of it. Sorry, I don't want to be that guy, but I know you prefer honest feedback.

Skippy said:

Well in all honesty, whilst I love the energy, personally I I find the idea that advanced Odr Cultivators are literally the size of ASoIF giants kind of breaks my suspension of disbelief, and would prefer if it were reconsidered.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

If other people feel this way, I'll consider it. I'd rather not, because I do quite enjoy thinking about how extreme height characters would interact with the world and normal height characters, but I will if I have to.

Skippy said:

(I think Giant Blooded making people eight feet tall is kind of silly too, FWIW; many Jotuns in stories were regular height, and you can have super strength and vitality without being eight feet tall.)

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

In NQ, Giant's Blood is in referral to the actual species known as giants, not the Jotnar. Bjorgolf of Egil's Saga was described as "in strength, stature, and kindred half hill-giant," which is partly where the inspiration for having giants be their own thing comes from.

Skippy said:

Plus at a certain point, extreme height stops being a cool trait and just becomes something similar to living with a serious disability. Does Jarl Corpsemaker need to use a specially made seat when he has to go to the outhouse? Is he able to sit on regular benches or chairs? Step inside a normal house or onto a normal-sized boat?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

To answer these questions: shapeshifting exists and Steelfathers do not defecate. I was planning on having a bit in the next turn about how Steinarr, jokingly, used shapeshifting to grow a single inch taller then Halla, which inspires Halla to utilize her own shapeshifting to deal with the challenges presented by her newfound height.

Skippy said:

Sorry, I don't want to be that guy, but I know you prefer honest feedback.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Not a problem!

Imperial Fister said:

If other people feel this way, I'll consider it. I'd rather not, because I do quite enjoy thinking about how extreme height characters would interact with the world and normal height characters, but I will if I have to.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

For me, it strongly depends. 10-12 feet tall at the top end for powerful Steelfathers in practice, sure...if it goes much higher than that it starts getting a bit silly IMO. A max of +8-9 Feet from Cultivation would be fine...a max of +27 is silly.

It's totally going to look like we're envious of Lidrun. "I was shorter than you and that's completely unacceptable, so I'm taller than you now."

Imperial Fister said:

and Steelfathers do not defecate.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I was going to ask

I am staunchly pro giant, though I am now wondering if other cultivation systems include physical growth free with advancement, and which ones

I know the physics don't apply in anything like the same way, but whenever I picture someone taller than about 7' I wince and think "their poor knees". A very-large-human would need a significantly different body design, not just 'regular human scaled up'.

DeadmanwalkingXI said:

For me, it strongly depends. 10-12 feet tall at the top end for powerful Steelfathers in practice, sure...if it goes much higher than that it starts getting a bit silly IMO. A max of +8-9 Feet from Cultivation would be fine...a max of +27 is silly.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

You're in luck there, then, as even I am not crazy enough to have freaking 30+ foot tall characters lmao. +8–9 is the max you could, feasibly, gain from norse cultivation. In practicality most people won't ever reach +6 let alone +9.

[X] Saga Expansion

Okay, so, here's a plan. The goal of this plan is to tie up loose ends. It hopefully finishes up our Training Item selection, and finishes up most of our Tricks that are partially complete and would not benefit from said Training Items (it holds off Perfecting our Ignition stuff one whole turn to hopefully do it cheaper next turn with an item, for example). We then finish off almost all the rest next turn, hopefully get Hugr 10 the turn after that, and can do a more manageable number of projects going forward (though even this turn is down to 10, which is an improvement).

For actions, while we need to talk to the Ice Sword, I could easily be talked into a different third action...it's the rest of the plan I feel strongly about (though it is on theme to do a bunch of crafting and then commune with an item, so it's thematic). We should finish things up so we hopefully don't need to worry about them going forward.

In terms of the Rune wording, I'm not completely happy with any of these and would be more than happy to replace them, and could use some ideas for bone ash on a couple of them as well.

The research is all from pre-breakthrough times and replacing it seems totally fair if we have ideas...I don't have such ideas and this still needs to be done eventually, so I'm looking at it as a placeholder.

[X] Plan Finishing Things Up
-[X] (Crafting) Try to make something (1)
--[X] 1 oz. Molten Iron Fire Striker Rod (+15 successes from Tools/Workshop)
--[X] Add runes saying "May my sparks grant knowledge of Ignition itself." – Training Item for Ignition
--[X] Add rooster bone ash, hoping to connect with the 'bring the sun' thematic beat there
-[X] (Crafting) Try to make something (2)
--[X] Silver Drinking Horn (+15 successes from Tools/Workshop)
--[X] Add runes saying "May that drunk from me teach sweet words and poetry." – Hopefully a Wordplay and Silver-Tongue Training Item
--[X] Add bone ash from songbirds

-[X] (Crafting) Try to make something (3)
--[X] Add Runes to our existing Tools (+15 successes from Tools/Workshop)
--[X] "May Brokkr and Eitri's skill be granted to those who learn with me." – Hopefully making them a Weaponcraft, Artcraft, and Armorcraft Training Item
-[X] (Crafting) Try to make something (4)
--[X] Forged Iron Work Knife (+15 successes from Tools/Workshop)
--[X] Add runes saying "May I teach all the uses of knives." –Training Item for Housecraft, Pierce, and Slash if we can manage it
--[X] Add beaver bone ash

-[X] Initiate aggressive diplomacy with the Ice Sword
--[X] Use Sundersight and have our spiritual combat seidr ready.

-[X] [Social] (Personal) Spend time with...
--[X] Eric
--[X] Ask again about what's going on with the Kyrsvikingar

-[X] (Exploration) Go on a walk through...
--[X] Your Soulscape!
---[X] (Optional) Send your fylgja in your place (Does not cost an action)

-[X] Special Note: On all Crafting add the following if possible unless otherwise specified:
--[X] For metal items, have Heat Hold available just in case.
--[X] Using Sundersight (+1d3 Successes)
--[X] Stoking Frami, Virthing, and Saemd (for +1 Success each, +3 successes total) to enhance the crafting process

Training:

-[X] (Seeress) Learn seidr with the Seeress (Only available during Summer)
--[X] Learn the spells for traveling to Ginnungagap and finding a specific soul there (like those used to rescue Aki)...we have a lot of relatives with fylgja and would like to be able to save them at need.
--[X] Ask Solrun what she knows about Aspects and how they work
--[X] Ask Solrun where she goes for the winter, and invite her to stay with us if she'd prefer that.

-[X] (Research)
--[X] Go over our known capabilities and see if our hitting a new stage of our Realm has had any effect on any of them that we can discern – 1 Research
--[X] Try and Alloy Ignition and Stoker State, see if it grants Stoked Dice for using EWC or propagates damage to Stoker State Tricks – 1 Research
--[X] Try and Alloy Stoker State and Puncture, see if that allows Puncture on Standstill or Ignition (already alloyed with Stoker State) or Basic Attacks –1 Research
--[X] Try and Alloy Contested Movement and Stoker State, see if that allows Stoked Dice to be used in a less all-or-nothing way with Contested Movement – 1 Research
--[X] Try experimenting with Time Stands Still and other Standstill effects and try and figure out what the Martial Style Time Stands Still is part of might be, or be capable of – 1 Research
--[X] Try and Alloy Campfire and Hamr – 1 Research
---[X] Do this naked in the sauna with Abjorn, holding a rag to see if it ignites, prepare to switch it out quickly...try and figure out from how it works how it would go if we did the same with Ignition


-[X] (Blackhand's Training) Try to develop old/train new hugareida tricks
--[X] Train Slowing Slog 46xp (23xp)
--[X] Train Semi-Halting Vortex 16xp (8xp)
--[X] Train Campfire 28xp (7xp)
---[X] Note: This allows us to re-alloy Forgefire, adding +2d to all crafting (25d total on this turn's crafting)

-[X] (Training) Martial Styles
--[X] Train Stoker State 8xp (4xp)
--[X] Train Flame-Tending Blade 16xp (8xp)
--[X] Train Threadcutter 4xp (2xp)
--[X] Train Knee-Drop Back Breaker 6xp (3xp)
--[X] Train Fang 14xp (7xp)

-[X] (Training) Hamr (255 successes to rank up)
--[X] Train Chop 12xp (6xp)
--[X] Train Throw 1xp

-[X] (Work Dice Usage)
--[X] Buildings, Resources, and Quality: 2 Living Space, Everything else maxed out (61 Total)
--[X] Crafting: Making 1 Glue Bomb and 1 Meat-Keeping Stick (4 Total)
--[X] Construction: Improve Building – Workshop by 19 (19 Total)
--[X] Conversion: Spend for 6 Research Dice (12 Total)

-[X] (Incidentals)
--[X] Adding Taafl Board Capacity Gains to: Abjorn, Hallbjorn,
--[X] Receiving Metal from Dwarves: 24 oz Forged Iron, 6 oz Drafty Iron

Shapeshifting:
-[X] (Shapeshifting Slots)
--[X] Add one instance of Fast Twitch Muscles.

Fylgja:
-[X] (Fylgja Alloy/Shapeshifting Slots)
--[X] Remove the 4Fold Sparkbomb, replace it with a 2Fold Sparkbomb (-17 Orthstirr)
-[X] (Standing Orders)
--[X] Change the Standing Order relating to Sparkbombs to replace the 2Fold Sparkbomb with a single Sparkbomb whenever that Fast is empty.

Hugareida:
-[X] (Assign Hugareida Levels)
--[X] Assign 4 Forgefire Levels to Damage
--[X] Assign 1 Campfire Level to Dice and 2 to Instances

EDIT: Edits for clarity and to account for having spent Odr. Added types of bone ash.

So with the xp change we can perfect Kindlespinner, Emberwing Cloak, and Firebomb Strike this turn for a total of 14 Expirience (assuming least favorable rounding)

I feel like even ten to twelve feet is actually pretty nuts when you try and imagine it it in practice rather than just thinking of it as an abstract number. A tall full grown man would have the top of their head coming up to their waist. Trying to talk to or interact with them would be like an adult interacting with a child. They would weigh as much as a large grizzly bear.

Watch videos of Andre the Giant, and see how he looks standing next to a regular person. Then keep in mind he was "only" seven feet.

If Norse Big Size Mans use shapecrafting to remain a human height most of the time then sure, I guess. But just walking around like that is like... it's definitely a strong and evocative image, no doubt. But it feels like a different setting than the one I'd been imagining in my head all this time, where the marker of how powerful someone is is more the size of their legend and how much ridiculous feats they can pull off. You can be larger than life without being literally larger than life.

But anyway, excited for where the story goes from here!

So wait, do we have to vote for the name again with the new threadmark or?

I feel like size would be more just another aesthetic from my POV. It does go into practical issues pretty fast. Even when fighting, being bigger can be a disadvantage.

DeadmanwalkingXI said:

Perfecting our Ignition stuff one whole turn to hopefully do it cheaper next turn with an item, for example

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

We're already at quadruple efficiency with Ignition, what more do we need?

Orbmorb said:

So with the xp change we can perfect Kindlespinner, Emberwing Cloak, and Firebomb Strike this turn for a total of 14 Expirience (assuming least favorable rounding)

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Yeah, but we can also do it for 11xp next turn if we do an Ignition Item, which I think is worth putting them off one turn (though not more than that).

Shard said:

We're already at quadruple efficiency with Ignition, what more do we need?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I mean, an Item gets us to x5. That does actually matter. If the Item roll fails we'd do them next turn anyway, but the saved xp isn't meaningless. If we weren't gonna be making an Ignition Item this turn anyway, it wouldn't be worth it just for those, but I think we probably should be making such an item and already had it penciled in this turn before the rules change.

DeadmanwalkingXI said:

I mean, an Item gets us to x5. That does actually matter. If the Item roll fails we'd do them next turn anyway, but the saved xp isn't meaningless.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

We would be saving like all of four exp unless we actually want to master and perfect a lot more stuff.

DeadmanwalkingXI said:

Try and Alloy Campfire and Hamr – 1 Research

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Given what happened with Standstill I think there's a real chance this just makes us combust. Definitely better than Ignition exploding us, but we have so many unknown items we could look at

I wanted to try infusing our Hugareida (testing out with Clearwater since it has the least bad outcomes) with Odr, as well as trying to invert Hugareidas other than Standstill - Results could be extremely profitable.

Shard said:

We would be saving like all of four exp unless we actually want to master and perfect a lot more stuff.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I feel like we probably do want more Ignition Tricks at some point, and making them cheaper to buy is thus pretty worthwhile, but maybe not as much as something else. Do you have an alternative Training Item suggestion you think we'd use more?

Orbmorb said:

Given what happened with Standstill I think there's a real chance this just makes us combust. Definitely better than Ignition exploding us, but we have so many unreserved items we could look at

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I think we need to know if we combust from this. Because if not, doing this with something fire-related might be amazing for us. I do agree it's a risk, note the extensive precautions involved, but I think we need to know.

Shard said:

I wanted to try infusing our Hugareida (testing out with Clearwater since it has the least bad outcomes) with Odr, as well as trying to invert Hugareidas other than Standstill - Results could be extremely profitable.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I'm not sure what alloying Hamr and Clearwater does that's good for us, is the thing. We already know from Standstill that it's possible...now we need to know if we have a useful option there, and I doubt Clearwater is it. I'm down with the rest, I just thought the currently listed ones should be done first.

I also would have to agree that alloying a fire hugareida with our Hamr seems like a not-so-great idea after what happened with Standstill.

Also wait, Frenzy 7? Really? Why?

[X] Saga Mounting

Shard said:

I also would have to agree that alloying a fire hugareida with our Hamr seems like a not-so-great idea after what happened with Standstill.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I mean...we probably burst into fire. The question is whether the fire hurts us...it might easily not, the Standstill didn't, after all. And if it doesn't, it might be how Logi was doing some of his stuff.

If we didn't have huge Fire Resistance I'd be a lot more cautious, but I think the experiment is worth attempting under the circumstances.

Skippy said:

I feel like even ten to twelve feet is actually pretty nuts when you try and imagine it it in practice rather than just thinking of it as an abstract number. A tall full grown man would have the top of their head coming up to their waist. Trying to talk to or interact with them would be like an adult interacting with a child. They would weigh as much as a large grizzly bear.

Watch videos of Andre the Giant, and see how he looks standing next to a regular person. Then keep in mind he was "only" seven feet.

If Norse Big Size Mans use shapecrafting to remain a human height most of the time then sure, I guess. But just walking around like that is like... it's definitely a strong and evocative image, no doubt. But it feels like a different setting than the one I'd been imagining in my head all this time, where the marker of how powerful someone is is more the size of their legend and how much ridiculous feats they can pull off. You can be larger than life without being literally larger than life.

But anyway, excited for where the story goes from here!

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Oh absolutely! I'm fortunate enough to have a frickin' really good way to visualize height in real life while also being tall enough myself to have a decent-ish understanding of some of the realities of being at that height. Freaking tables, man, they really suck sometimes.

Odr cultivators being tall is the result of the size of their sagas turning physical rather then simply magical or mystical or what have you. And Corpsemaker, for example, doesn't just walk around at ~10 feet tall in his day to day life. He only does that when he's doing the ol' Jarl special of showing up uninvited at a hall and demanding to be feasted by the landowner of said hall, to remind them of his authority over them.

Hilariously, the fact that Abjorn made the house and Halla definitely made all the furniture with Abjorn in mind is gonna mean she has a lot less trouble dealing with this around her own home than most people would. Still might go with shapeshifting when staying with others.

[X] Plan Finishing Things Up


Honestly, I love the height = strength in most cultures being tall is seen as, and in many ways is, a major advantage. There is something to be said about characters who are small but mighty like Toph.

Imperial Fister said:

You're in luck there, then, as even I am not crazy enough to have freaking 30+ foot tall characters lmao. +8–9 is the max you could, feasibly, gain from Norse cultivation. In practicality, most people won't ever reach +6 let alone +9.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

For the Norse, this makes complete and total sense. I would still like to advocate for some characters to be +10 ft, especially for those with especially strong Giant's/Monster blood. It's just a massive staple, one that I especially enjoy.

I would like to note that if we did less researches this turn (or paid for some of them with training dice), we could improve the level of our workshop, improving all crafting results.

weeblypanda said:

Honestly, I love the height = strength in most cultures being tall is seen as, and in many ways is, a major advantage. There is something to be said about characters who are small but mighty like Toph.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

After a certain point, being tall becomes a disadvantage - There's an optimum height to be had, and it's definitely not higher than 7ft