Lex Sedet In Vertice: A Supervillain in the DCU CK2 quest

What sort of tone should I shoot for with this Quest?

  • Go as crack fueled as you can we want Ambush Bug, Snowflame and Duckseid

    Votes: 30 7.7%
  • Go for something silly but keep a little bit of reason

    Votes: 31 7.9%
  • Adam West Camp

    Votes: 27 6.9%
  • Balanced as all things should be

    Votes: 195 50.0%
  • Mostly serious but not self-involvedly so

    Votes: 73 18.7%
  • Dark and brooding but with light at the end of the tunnel

    Votes: 12 3.1%
  • We're evil and we don't want anyone to be happy

    Votes: 22 5.6%

  • Total voters
    390
  • Poll closed .
I get you're point but I also think this is slightly underestimating Cassandra's intelligence.

Once Cassandra learns the basics of building or programming something from just watching she isn't necessarily stuck just repeating that task, she's a genius that is capable of dissecting those steps and reverse engineering it.
Yes but this is where gameplay and story functions start to break down. mechanically, the distinction is one I've ruled sufficient such that Cassandra can't gain massive benefits from this trait in certain ways. Theoretically, yes it could give you more, but at that point you've broken the limits set on the trait to balance it and so I'm not willing to give it to you. The nuance above is to make it a little more clear cut when the trait does and doesn't affect things.
@King crimson could I ask you about two other things regarding Monkey See?
Sure
1) Is my above statement about it allowing Cassandra to learn skills from actions that involve other people correct?
Kind of. You gain a repository of things to draw upon passively, but the trait's auto-success specifically only triggers when taking an action that involves copying normal baseline humans. It's relatively easy to trigger in events and such but it's less effective for say an action like "fight crime" which doesn't necessarily involve copying.
2) How does it work with non baseline humans? I know it doesn't make it an autosuccess but does it make her more likely to be able to copy them assuming it's a thing she can do?
No, it does not at all work with non-baseline humans. "Baseline humans" means unenhanced basically and it's an intentional gameplay limitation. The trait mechanically only works on baseline humans as a point of reference.
 
[X] [Trait] Monkey See, Monkey Better than You

[X] [Camp] Send Raven and Jinx to the camp

[X] [Crash] Take over and rebrand Crash Alley Street races
 
Yes but this is where gameplay and story functions start to break down. mechanically, the distinction is one I've ruled sufficient such that Cassandra can't gain massive benefits from this trait in certain ways. Theoretically, yes it could give you more, but at that point you've broken the limits set on the trait to balance it and so I'm not willing to give it to you. The nuance above is to make it a little more clear cut when the trait does and doesn't affect things.
Fair enough, would things like that effect Learning actions?

For example using the example of her learning coding from watching Nygma would that unlock or reduce the DC of a "teach Cassandra coding" action?
Kind of. You gain a repository of things to draw upon passively, but the trait's auto-success specifically only triggers when taking an action that involves copying normal baseline humans. It's relatively easy to trigger in events and such but it's less effective for say an action like "fight crime" which doesn't necessarily involve copying.
Oh sure but say for example we put Cassandra and Roxy on an action and it succeeds by a large amount is there a chance that some of those points go towards Cassandra learning how to fly a jet from watching her? Or similarly if we were to send Cassandra to fight someone she could learn some of their skills from the experience?
No, it does not at all work with non-baseline humans. "Baseline humans" means unenhanced basically and it's an intentional gameplay limitation. The trait mechanically only works on baseline humans as a point of reference.
That's fair.
 
Yes but this is where gameplay and story functions start to break down. mechanically, the distinction is one I've ruled sufficient such that Cassandra can't gain massive benefits from this trait in certain ways. Theoretically, yes it could give you more, but at that point you've broken the limits set on the trait to balance it and so I'm not willing to give it to you. The nuance above is to make it a little more clear cut when the trait does and doesn't affect things.
Trait balanced to not give us massive gains people. Let's get a stat boost and some socialization with Memetic me instead. Or Chi stuff with ?????.
Fair enough, would things like that effect Learning actions?

For example using the example of her learning coding from watching Nygma would that unlock or reduce the DC of a "teach Cassandra coding" action?
Kc was very clear that her perfect mimicry doesn't somehow put her closer to understanding the cerebral process in working out the methodology of what she's doing to innovate rather than just mimic.
Oh sure but say for example we put Cassandra and Roxy on an action and it succeeds by a large amount is there a chance that some of those points go towards Cassandra learning how to fly a jet from watching her? Or similarly if we were to send Cassandra to fight someone she could learn some of their skills from the experience?
She would to perform there precise moves, probably in the combo's she sees them perform. She wouldn't be able to back off, contemplate there style while dodging for a few seconds, and start integrating the moves into her normal fighting style seamlessly. She'd very much be either fighting normally or mimicing her opponent and not some weird mix of styles.
Oh sure but say for example we put Cassandra and Roxy on an action and it succeeds by a large amount is there a chance that some of those points go towards Cassandra learning how to fly a jet from watching her? Or similarly if we were to send Cassandra to fight someone she could learn some of their skills from the experience?
She would learn how to pull off the moves they do, but let's say the first time she's flying her own rocket the enemy fires in a deliberate pattern Cassandra has never seen Roxy dodge? She can't just think about what Roxy does and come up with a suitable means of dodging from that.

It's not a trait for learning skills, it's a trait for copying movements. Full stop.
 
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Trait balanced to not give us massive gains people. Let's get a stat boost and some socialization with Memetic me instead. Or Chi stuff with ?????.
You're wilfully taking that out of context, the trait has been balanced so that Cassandra "can't gain massive benefits from this trait in certain ways." with the operative words there being "in certain ways."

If this trait has been balanced in such a way then you can guarantee that either it's the best one and required that treatment or they have all been balanced in such a way.
Kc was very clear that her perfect mimicry doesn't somehow put her closer to understanding the cerebral process in working out the methodology of what she's doing to innovate rather than just mimic.
Firstly, please don't say "somehow" as if it's an illogical thought process especially when KC himself has admitted that it should work that way it just doesn't for balance reasons.

Secondly, what I'm asking now is a very different situation. One is "Surely Cassandra is smart enough to reverse engineer the more academic things she mimics in her own time" to which the answer was "Realistically yes but for balance no"

What I'm asking now is that surely Cassandra knowing some amount of coding would make it easier for her to learn more coding or unlock the potential for that.
She would to perform there precise moves, probably in the combo's she sees them perform. She wouldn't be able to back off, contemplate there style while dodging for a few seconds, and start integrating the moves into her normal fighting style seamlessly. She'd very much be either fighting normally or mimicing her opponent and not some weird mix of styles.
She would learn how to pull off the moves they do, but let's say the first time she's flying her own rocket the enemy fires in a deliberate pattern Cassandra has never seen Roxy dodge? She can't just think about what Roxy does and come up with a suitable means of dodging from that.

It's not a trait for learning skills, it's a trait for copying movements. Full stop.
This feels like a false equivalency. It's one thing for Cassandra to not be able to improvise or adapt around things that require a specific amount of knowledge or information that she lacks it's a completely separate thing for her to not be able to do that with physical activities or abilities which is the whole point.
 
Fair enough, would things like that effect Learning actions?

For example using the example of her learning coding from watching Nygma would that unlock or reduce the DC of a "teach Cassandra coding" action?
There's nuance to this. It could reduce the DC of an action. It will not always reduce the DC of an action. Generally speaking the more complicated the learning action is the less likely it is to receive a DC drop.

For a very, very basic (and potentially mean) comparison, if Cassandra gained the skills to play many, many instruments, you'd be much more likely to get a DC drop on learning to write a basic pop song (of which most pop songs used the same four chords over and over and over again) as opposed to a DC drop on learning to write a complicated multi-instrument symphony.

That being said it's not the most efficient way to get DC drops so while it is a benefit I wouldn't bank on the viability of exploiting this aspect of the trait for that (it's primarily a skill collecting tool and beyond that is more focused on Martial, Diplomacy and Intrigue. It can be used to help Learning and Stewardship stuff but it's like using a wrench as a hammer, it's viable, but you're not using the tool for it's intended purpose and won't get the consistency you would with a tool dedicated to filling that role).
Oh sure but say for example we put Cassandra and Roxy on an action and it succeeds by a large amount is there a chance that some of those points go towards Cassandra learning how to fly a jet from watching her? Or similarly if we were to send Cassandra to fight someone she could learn some of their skills from the experience?
Yes to both. The second thing can already happen even without the trait though it's less likely.

That being said even if Cassandra could learn to fly a jet from watching Roxy, the moment she's forced to be spontaneous and do things she hasn't seen Roxy do before, she's liable to perform a lot worse even if basic competency can be achieved.

To use Green Arrow as an example, she could watch him shoot a bow and arrow and become capable of mimicking his skill/technique and becoming an absolutely incredible archer while standing but if she were falling out of a building and needed to land a bullseye she'd struggle far more than her base level of skill would indicate, while Green Arrow would be more capable of adjusting and making the shot.
She would to perform there precise moves, probably in the combo's she sees them perform. She wouldn't be able to back off, contemplate there style while dodging for a few seconds, and start integrating the moves into her normal fighting style seamlessly. She'd very much be either fighting normally or mimicing her opponent and not some weird mix of styles.
So the first thing I'd like to point out is that with this trait Cass can both imitate the sequence and parts of the sequence. If she saw three punches being performed by Batman, she could isolate the second punch and only perfectly replicate the second punch.

With fighting specifically things are kind of weird for Cass. A lot of the weaknesses of the trait are actually mitigated in the specific scenario of martial arts combat as Cass has her own knowledge of combat as well as a whole heaping helping of muscle memory, instinct and skill. The moment Cass's imitated style doesn't work she can just fall back on the stuff she already knows. Cass's level of knowledge is high enough that she could pretty seamlessly incorporate the new techniques.

For a basic comparison, if for some reason Cass's mimicry of an Olympic sprinter wasn't applicable to the situation, she wouldn't become incapable of running, she'd just fall back on her own knowledge. When doing something like coding that's problematic because Cass doesn't have a knowledge base and isolating parts of the sequence can only take you so far, but with martial arts specifically, Cass's own knowledge talent and skill is so great that 90% of the time she can use what she knows when copying someone else doesn't work.
let's say the first time she's flying her own rocket the enemy fires in a deliberate pattern Cassandra has never seen Roxy dodge? She can't just think about what Roxy does and come up with a suitable means of dodging from that.
Again I would like to clarify things here. Cassandra could theoretically take pieces of what Roxy does and string together a solution to dodge from that. She could move the plane up, move the plane down, turn left, turn right etc. so long as she's seen Roxy do it before and she could string together the actions in a specific sequence. It would be worse than Roxy doing it, because Cassandra would be guesstimating timings that Roxy could easily intuit, and Cassandra would be screwed if dodging requires her to do something she's never seen Roxy do, but Cassandra doesn't have to stick one to one with the sequence and could theoretically dodge a new pattern.
It's not a trait for learning skills, it's a trait for copying movements. Full stop.
I'll chime in a bit, it's a trait for copying physical skills and then using that to catch up learning to that point. The new Cassandra special actions are designed to guarantee you get to copy the movements and if you succeed in them enough you learn the physical skill and if you don't learn the physical skill in the first go around you get a reduced DC "practice" option to help Cassandra learn it properly.

I think the confusion is coming from the discussion of it always being passively on. It doesn't automatically passively get you the skills, it automatically passively lets you copy movements which you can then use to learn skills by taking the appropriate actions. I hope that clarifies things.

Edit: 90% of the discussion about the trait has been about stuff outside of its major intended function. Traits like Memetic Me can also be pushed to do things that fall outside of the obvious wheelhouse. People immediately latched onto "influencer" but it also helps Cassandra write propaganda or incite crowds to mob violence or increase patriotism in the wake of an attack.
 
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I think the confusion is coming from the discussion of it always being passively on. It doesn't automatically passively get you the skills, it automatically passively lets you copy movements which you can then use to learn skills by taking the appropriate actions. I hope that clarifies things.
For a bit if clarification, if Cassandra were to see, for example, Batman fighting Lady Shiva would she automatically learn all the moves they display, and potentially get a Martial boost from it, and unlock an autosuccess action to master those moves for greater gains and to fully incorporate them into her own style or is it a case of her seeing them just unlocking the action which we'd then need to take for any benefits?
 
For a bit if clarification, if Cassandra were to see, for example, Batman fighting Lady Shiva would she automatically learn all the moves they display, and potentially get a Martial boost from it, and unlock an autosuccess action to master those moves for greater gains and to fully incorporate them into her own style or is it a case of her seeing them just unlocking the action which we'd then need to take for any benefits?
So this is potentially a bit messy.

Even without the trait Cassandra could, on a good enough roll, learn the moves they display and gain something of it.

Independent of that, the trait guarantees that she'd autosucceed at any action that involves copying the motion. She could then take an action to attempt to master/fully incorporate the skill that would have a lower DC then learning it without first having the ability to perfectly copy the motion.

On top of that while she's got special actions, I'll be giving you special actions for observing specific skills (and letting you write in your own) that are autosuccesses and can be leveraged into learning the skill properly. If you "only" get the perfect copy of the motion then you get the lower DC learning option to get the skill.

Edit: To clarify things a bit more, Cass can learn from watching people fight without the trait (this is an outlier, most skills don't translate this easy), she can use the trait to learn to perfectly copy motions passively which then gets her reduced DC learning options, and independent of that I'll give you auto-success copy actions that with enough success let you learn the skill and without much success let you take a reduced DC learning action next turn. I hope that makes things clear.

Edit #2: The following primarily applies to physical skills but can every so often apply to non-physical skills, especially on a simple/basic level
 
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So this is potentially a bit messy.

Even without the trait Cassandra could, on a good enough roll, learn the moves they display and gain something of it.

Independent of that, the trait guarantees that she'd autosucceed at any action that involves copying the motion. She could then take an action to attempt to master/fully incorporate the skill that would have a lower DC then learning it without first having the ability to perfectly copy the motion.

On top of that while she's got special actions, I'll be giving you special actions for observing specific skills (and letting you write in your own) that are autosuccesses and can be leveraged into learning the skill properly. If you "only" get the perfect copy of the motion then you get the lower DC learning option to get the skill.

Edit: To clarify things a bit more, Cass can learn from watching people fight without the trait (this is an outlier, most skills don't translate this easy), she can use the trait to learn to perfectly copy motions passively which then gets her reduced DC learning options, and independent of that I'll give you auto-success copy actions that with enough success let you learn the skill and without much success let you take a reduced DC learning action next turn. I hope that makes things clear.
Okay so if I'm understanding you correctly, and sorry if I'm making you repeat yourself here.

Cassandra already has a chance to copy someone's fighting style on sight and getting benefits from it, presumably including a stat bonus, but the trait makes it a guarantee and extends it to any physical activity.

After that Cassandra gets a reduced DC action to properly master that skill for maximum benefits.

And independent of both those things she gets several autosuccess actions which are basically us sending her out to observe professionals at various things which depending on how well they go either let Cassandra straight up learn the skill or unlocks one of the aforementioned actions?

That about right?

If so it does feel quite a bit worse than I was thinking considering the amount of actions we'd need to dedicate to it…
 
[X] [Crash] Take over and rebrand Crash Alley Street races
[X] [Direct] King of Crime
[X] [Direct] Cry of the Unborn God
[X] [Direct] Pirates of Nassau
[X] [Crock] Have Talia disguise herself and approach Paula Crock in private while Lady Vic in a digital decoy mask hides and waits to ambush should either of the crocks attempt to run or fight. Bring spare digital decoy masks incase we come to an agreement with the Crocks and need to disguise them.
[X] [Trait] ?????

[x] [Tower] Make non-impactful renovations to LexCorp tower
-[X] [Renovate] Have large American flags be prominent in the lobby of LexCorp tower
-[x] [Renovate] Get Janus a room that's meant to imitate a Savannah
-[x] [Renovate] Install a giant fish tank at Lightyear Entertainments headquarters
-[x] [Renovate] Create a designated sauna room for Snowy
-[x] [Renovate] Allow Cassandra to decorate her personal gym
-[x] [Renovate] Allow Jade to purchase kabuki masks to hang on her rooms walls
-[X] [Renovate] Update the bowling alleys to use animations involving prominent LexCorp figures
-[x] [Renovate] Let Jinx install a chocolate fountain in her room
-[x] [Renovate] Build an extra 3 bookshelves for Raven
-[X] [Renovate] Install a waterslide
-[x] [Renovate] Build a room in Lightyear Entertainment's headquarters that plays their material nonstop
-[x] [Renovate] Build a popcorn machine for the theaters
-[x] [Renovate] Allow Jinx to stick a gold name plate on the door to her room
-[x] [Renovate] Improve the inter-kitchen intercom system
-[x] [Renovate] Install a comfortable massage chair in Mercy's office/command center
-[X] [Renovate] Install a statue of nemesis before the law offices
-[X] [Renovate] Install a giant chess board with remote control pieces
-[x] [Renovate] Install a statue garden dedicated to LexCorp's success on the grounds outside
-[X] [Renovate] Install a performative "Ultraviolet signal" on the roof of LexCorp tower
-[x] [Renovate] Install coffee machines on every floor available to the general workforce
-[X] [Renovate] Include a "the doctor is in" sign on Rene Carpenter's office
-[x] [Renovate] Install more L-Phone charging stations
-[X] [Renovate] Install a table with replicas of Metropolis and Tokyo Lexcorp Towers side by side with a plaque reading "closer than you think" between them.
-[X] [Renovate] Install a portrait of Lex and Cassandra in Lex's office.
 
You're wilfully taking that out of context, the trait has been balanced so that Cassandra "can't gain massive benefits from this trait in certain ways." with the operative words there being "in certain ways."

If this trait has been balanced in such a way then you can guarantee that either it's the best one and required that treatment or they have all been balanced in such a way.
Yeah. Doesn't change that a lot of the hype that was used to rally people behind this was the idea that Cassandra could learn skills quickly by copying the motions. That not being the case, it's worth suggesting that people should change there vote to the one all purpose improvement, stat boosts.
What I'm asking now is that surely Cassandra knowing some amount of coding would make it easier for her to learn more coding or unlock the potential for that.
And I'm saying that while she'll be able to pick up different methods of coding quicker once she has learned the cerebral part of the skill needed to design her own programs without copying, it's still just as difficult to learn as it is without the trait. Cassandra could learn Programming, and then use Monkey see, monkey better than you to pass an action like "Familiarize Cassandra with all examples of programming you are aware of" easily, but taking the latter won't impact the former, and knowing a bunch of different kinds of coding doesn't do particularly much for innovating a new code.
This feels like a false equivalency. It's one thing for Cassandra to not be able to improvise or adapt around things that require a specific amount of knowledge or information that she lacks it's a completely separate thing for her to not be able to do that with physical activities or abilities which is the whole point.
No it copies the motions without understanding the sense or methodology behind performing them. Hence, the learning issues. Cassandra can copy Roxy, copy anything she sees her do, but if she runs into something she hasn't seen Roxy deal with, a weapon or tactic, or an opponent with higher maneuverability that would require adaptation of the techniques of Roxy which she's mimicking, which Cassandra can not engage in if she doesn't have a level of personal flight skills of her own close to Roxy's level of skill which is not mimicked. Sorry if that feels like false equivalency.

Cassandra is a fantastic fighter, amazing athlete, and gifted in the arts of stealth and deception in general. She doesn't need much improvement in these areas, and the improvement she does need is stats, not skill sets.
So the first thing I'd like to point out
Again I would like to clarify things here.
Yeah. That was what I was trying to say. She has the techniques, but not the experience to just use them as naturally as someone with the skill. It would be haphazard and requires individual investment in different skills to make work, which is more than we are planning to commit to, hence why I believe the trait isn't particularly worth it.
So this is potentially a bit messy.

Even without the trait Cassandra could, on a good enough roll, learn the moves they display and gain something of it.

Independent of that, the trait guarantees that she'd autosucceed at any action that involves copying the motion. She could then take an action to attempt to master/fully incorporate the skill that would have a lower DC then learning it without first having the ability to perfectly copy the motion.

On top of that while she's got special actions, I'll be giving you special actions for observing specific skills (and letting you write in your own) that are autosuccesses and can be leveraged into learning the skill properly. If you "only" get the perfect copy of the motion then you get the lower DC learning option to get the skill.

Edit: To clarify things a bit more, Cass can learn from watching people fight without the trait (this is an outlier, most skills don't translate this easy), she can use the trait to learn to perfectly copy motions passively which then gets her reduced DC learning options, and independent of that I'll give you auto-success copy actions that with enough success let you learn the skill and without much success let you take a reduced DC learning action next turn. I hope that makes things clear.

Edit #2: The following primarily applies to physical skills but can every so often apply to non-physical skills, especially on a simple/basic level
Yeah this is a lot of why I'm not interested. I want to improve stats besides martial(mainly stewardship) and work on Cassandra's socialization with special actions, with the exception of hiring a qualified martial arts teacher.

If we really want to give her a martial trait that I could see us investing special actions in learning, ????? is the way to go. Chi based attacks are worth a little investment. Can't say the same on a given random style she witnesses, especially while she doesn't travel much or end up in combat with worthy foes very often.
 
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Okay so if I'm understanding you correctly, and sorry if I'm making you repeat yourself here.

Cassandra already has a chance to copy someone's fighting style on sight and getting benefits from it, presumably including a stat bonus, but the trait makes it a guarantee and extends it to any physical activity.

After that Cassandra gets a reduced DC action to properly master that skill for maximum benefits.

And independent of both those things she gets several autosuccess actions which are basically us sending her out to observe professionals at various things which depending on how well they go either let Cassandra straight up learn the skill or unlocks one of the aforementioned actions?

That about right?

If so it does feel quite a bit worse than I was thinking considering the amount of actions we'd need to dedicate to it…
This is about right for the main intended function though I'd like to note that fighting styles are an outlier. I'd also like to say that the action feels weaker because you've got about half of it as there is a secondary intended function.

The secondary intended function is that it allows you guaranteed auto-success at any action that necessarily involves copying the motions of a normal human being. That's not nothing, it means Cass basically wins every athletic competition she ever takes part in provided she has enough prep time, can pilot any vehicle competently in calm/normal scenarios, and is capable of perfectly faking emotional reactions (Cassandra could watch grieving people and learn how to perfectly burst out into what seems like genuine tears).

This secondary intended function would be useless if you had to dedicate actions to getting things to copy but you do that passively. For all that we've discussed the negatives of the trait, the positives, are that within standard/easily recreatable scenarios, Cassandra functionally has the appropriate skill. Simple stuff like teaching Cassandra to drive in Metropolis on a calm day, teaching Cassandra to forge signatures, teaching Cassandra to play soccer etc. all that is effectively given you automatically since the drawback of the practiced motion not working in sufficiently deviated circumstances doesn't really come into effect. If you're looking for saving the action economy, this trait potentially teaches Cassandra how to drive, without you ever needing to take a dedicated action so long as you're fine with Cassandra not being able to drive as good as she normally can in unusual circumstances.

In my opinion it's not as strong as originally speculated on, but it's not as weak as people are making it out now that I've pointed out its weaknesses and limitations.

Edit: Monkey See Monkey Better than You lets you cheat "skills" provided you're willing to accept that Cassandra can't pull it off when in a sufficiently deviated scenario.

Edit #2: For a really basic example using archery, Cassandra wouldn't gain Green Arrows level of skill in archery just by watching him, but if she's ever on an action that lets her observe him shooting a bow and arrow, Cassandra could copy his motions and convincingly reproduce the results of his skill within set parameters. Archery isn't an especially useful talent in day to day life but if you want to frame Green Arrow for murder or have Cass win the olympics, you could probably do so without having needed to invest a single action in properly getting her to that skill level.

Edit#3: Beyond letting you get skills, the secondary benefit of the trait is that it basically lets Cassandra autosucceed whenever she has observed someone else succeed and the situation is sufficiently similar and as such occasionally you can justify not taking an action that otherwise might seem necessary.
 
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Still prefer Cassandra to develop her own style and skills instead of imitating other people. We are rich enough to have her go the Gilgamesh-route, no need to be poor and develop via the Emiya-route.
 
Still prefer Cassandra to develop her own style and skills instead of imitating other people. We are rich enough to have her go the Gilgamesh-route, no need to be poor and develop via the Emiya-route.
I prefer the historical example of Wu Zhong, which Lady Sheeva seems to have embraced. The method of traveling around and meeting other practitioners in battle and combining your experiences into your own style at the end of said journey, with the exception that I want to bring the practitioners to Cassandra and other lessons come first.

Though again, the mysteries of Chi hardly seem like the kind of thing you can learn by copying motions, which is why that trait is more worthwhile in my opinion if we are focusing on a trait which benefits Cassandra's martial growth. ????? Is the more suitable trait in my opinion, and only 3 votes short of the lead.
 
It's primarily a Martial, Intrigue, and Diplomacy thing, though there are also skills Cassandra could pick up that would help with Learning and/or Stewardship though those are generally more limited in scope. It is much, much weaker on that side of things so don't expect it to be a massive boon to those things.

So to get into the nuances a bit, the trait would help a lot as it would enable her to have the skills necessary to properly communicate her ideas (perfectly drawn blueprints, perfectly replicated chunks of preexisting code etc.) and to execute stuff people already can do, but it doesn't convey why things work that well or help with innovation or doing something new.

Take programming for example. Cassandra could watch Nygma program on a computer and then she could perfectly replicate his code on the same computer if she needed to. From there she basically has a black box where she knows how to do X to get Y. The problem comes in the moment Cassandra needs to do Z because she's missing some of the information off of just copying someone.

So to kind of get back to the point above, Cassandra could learn to become an Edward Nygma level programmer/hacker and could basically cycle through her toolkit to achieve a lot of what he could do at the point in which she observed him. The problem is that the trait doesn't help at all with new problems or doing new things.

So for learning actions in general, she could watch Lex solve math problems and perfectly copy the motions of what he did to also become capable of solving the math problem but she'd be unable to explain the steps beyond rote physical action and she wouldn't be able to innovate.

It's good and it's useful but the trait kind of struggles with things when you aren't satisfied with mere replication without true understanding.

Edit: The trait is fantastic for having Cassandra be able to replicate others achievements/physical skills but it doesn't really help her do anything new or different from what others have already done.

I was actually thinking more about stuff like sketching. Modern design almost always involves sketching and being able to recall basic sketches and implement them upon need within a larger design is a very significant utility. In chess being able to memorize games and draw on similar scenarios and positions to play from is arguably the strongest trait of the strongest chess players, as such if Cassandra can recreate the matches of others physicially she should be able to draw upon them as well though granted it's a matter of pattern recognition though I'd argue that it helps a lot regardless.

Programming also relies a lot on design patterns so while it wouldn't help Cassandra become a better problem solver, it will allow her to design larger and more complex systems while keeping them easy to maintain and under "best practices" so to speak. It wouldn't make her a better computer scientist but it would make her a better programmer which is an important nuance IMO.
 
I was actually thinking more about stuff like sketching. Modern design almost always involves sketching and being able to recall basic sketches and implement them upon need within a larger design is a very significant utility. In chess being able to memorize games and draw on similar scenarios and positions to play from is arguably the strongest trait of the strongest chess players, as such if Cassandra can recreate the matches of others physicially she should be able to draw upon them as well though granted it's a matter of pattern recognition though I'd argue that it helps a lot regardless.

Programming also relies a lot on design patterns so while it wouldn't help Cassandra become a better problem solver, it will allow her to design larger and more complex systems while keeping them easy to maintain and under "best practices" so to speak. It wouldn't make her a better computer scientist but it would make her a better programmer which is an important nuance IMO.
Yes, this is an argument that can be made for the theoretical applications of the trait, which does not apply mechanically because King crimson is balancing it out.
 
So I don't have the time to write out these omakes myself, but I figured I'd give you all a non-canon omake pitch for each of the potential traits starring a future Cassandra with the trait and using the trait or something adjacent to the trait in some capacity.

  • Hit them Where it Hurts: Cassandra contemplates how she's merciful as she utterly wrecks and brutally dismantles a Kobra strike team attacking LexCorp's holdings. After all while Cassandra will kill and maim them, she managed to end the fight in less then two minutes. A less merciful opponent would have drawn things out even further.
  • Human Hunter: A terrified crook from Gotham who was hired to rob something in Metropolis and though it would be an easy job contemplates in terror what he's gotten himself into as some... thing is picking off all of his crew one by one leaving him to limp away before it comes after him and intimidates him into spilling the beans on exactly who hired him and why
  • Does it Bleed?: Cassandra gets annoyed after Mongul shows up to wreck Metropolis to get back at Superman. Cassandra responds by identifying his weakpoint as his eyes and hobbling him by heavily injuring one of them.
  • Voices in Your Head: Cassandra uses her voice throwing and mimicry to mess with Dr. Moon's mind and cause him to step away from his lab long enough for Cassandra to rescue the animals he intends to experiment on.
  • Hale and Hearty: Jinx complains to Cassandra about how everyone else at an event they went to got sick, including Jinx, while Cassandra remains in the peak of health. Cassandra just comments on it being easy if you know what you're doing which causes Jinx to yell that she's not becoming a health nut like Cass.
  • Memetic Me: Cassandra contemplates the ways she's subtly shaped youth culture to make her peers more "tolerable". From petty things like ensuring that her preferred hairstyle and fashion sense are seen as "hip", "trendy" and "in", and her deliberately appearing on the covers of magazines, to more concerning things like her owning/creating several of the most popular and influential accounts across multiple social media platforms and her ensuring that memes of Superman failing/being pathetic remain widely shared across the internet to the outright disturbing where she's subtly encouraging people to accept her as authoritarian dictator and subtly encouraging the most rabid of her fanatics to silence opposition.
  • Prodigy in Medicine: Cassandra performs mad science, transplanting Snowy's brain into a giant four armed silverback gorilla after the macaque has a heart attack due to stress and there are no donor hearts on hand.
  • Poisonous Person: Cassandra recreates the iocane powder scene from the Princess Bride movie against Control Freak. Control Freak initially thinks she's just doing a bit. Cassandra ends up revealing that she deliberately created a poison to line up with the fictional poison and gave herself an immunity to it.
  • Overdose Tolerance: After being driven berserk by red kryptonite, Superman beats the shit out of Lex Luthor. In response Cassandra loads herself up on Venom, Blackrock's drug and a few others and goes to town whaling on Superman whilst keeping a fairly sound tactical mind.
  • Bodies in Motion: An aged up Cassandra (16 or 18ish) flirts with a teen supergenius (Gear, Hiro Okamura, Gizmo etc.) in order to get them to keep building her something really incredible. Cassandra then goes and gets ice cream and complains to Queen Bee about how gross hormones and people ruled by attraction are.
  • Master Contortionist: Cassandra manages to convince the other teenage wards to do yoga with her and freaks them all out with just how flexible she is.
  • Human Nature: Cassandra interrogates people for the DIR before eventually managing to zero in on the traitor. When asked how he knew, Cassandra glibly replies that "she's a people person and unfortunately for him, he was people. Now he's dead meat."
  • Doctoral Debutante: Basically just 16(ish) year old Cassandra complaining about how bullshit it is that she needs to do residency when she's smart enough to be like her father and just get her degrees on an accelerated pace. Meanwhile the actual adults in the room are trying to corral the annoyed teenage genius medical prodigy without offending her. If you want to bitch about med school, this is the place to do it.
  • Body Horror: At a party someone annoys Cassandra. Cassandra proceeds to give the person annoying her a speech on all the horrible ways she could maim them in order to terrify them. It succeeds and Cassandra goes on to enjoy the rest of her evening in peace.
  • Monkey See, Monkey Better than You: Cassandra sneaks out of LexCorp tower in order to go and watch a sports game to be able to perfectly analyze and replicate their motions/skills so that she can further improve herself. She's already a multiple-gold medalist in nearly two dozen separate events at the youth Olympics but Cassandra wants to be better at even more so she keeps collecting more and more and more in order to truly cement herself as the best at everything ever. If you want to end it in a funny manner you can have Bette Kane comically cursing her "rival" as she struggles to catch up to the utter ridiculousness that is Cassandra Luthor.
  • ?????: When backed into a corner and heavily beaten by her mother, Cass draws on an unknown well of strength and manages to knock out Lady Shiva in a single blow.
  • Sadist Supreme: An employee who is stuck in Cassandra's LexCorp branch recounts the mundane daily drudgery and misery at her place. It's an incredibly efficient, incredibly profitable part of the business, but it's basically LexCorp hell and Cassandra rules as the devil, maximizing both productivity and quality of the product while maximizing her workers suffering. Potentially reveal that Cassandra runs this branch as a way to have "fun" and to punish people who fail LexCorp while she runs another branch or two elsewhere in a much kinder less cruel manner.
  • Get Down with the Sickness: Cassandra adopts and modifies Kancer as her new favorite pet, evolving him into a creature designed to basically wreak havoc on anything with kryptonian biology.
There's a lot of fun you could have with these and I tried to throw you a few ways to do things that are unexpected or subversive for what the trait might lead you to easily conclude.
 
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Ugh honestly I'm really struggling to decide whether Monkey See, Monkey Better Than You is worth it.

It has the potential to be very useful since it basically makes several actions that would probably increase her Martial, Diplomacy and Intrigue autosucceses and just passively makes her at least competent at hundreds of small day to day things without us every putting in effort.

However the benefits around it are… a little bit fuzzy. It's unclear what actions it would actually unlock, it's really only useful if we actively choose to pursue those actions, it opens up a whole new action economy that's competing with stuff we want her to do and I feel like KC has specifically avoided confirming that stat increases are a likely benefit.

I'm getting really kinda stressed about the whole thing…
 
Yes, this is an argument that can be made for the theoretical applications of the trait, which does not apply mechanically because King crimson is balancing it out.

It can apply with DC reductions which is the point. That's the mechanical benefit. It can also alter the results table and introduce other benefits as well. In regard to architecture, I can see Cassandra potentially getting a trait that gives her a DC reduction for things that she already built, for example, or improving on past designs that she is familiar with.

edit: This isn't to say that It's my preferred trait or anything, but I hate the idea of Memetic Me with a passion since it reads like making Cassandra more similar to people like Donald Trump, Giorgia Meloni, Vladimir Putin, Nayib Bukele and Benjamin Netanyahu.

Ugh honestly I'm really struggling to decide whether Monkey See, Monkey Better Than You is worth it.

It has the potential to be very useful since it basically makes several actions that would probably increase her Martial, Diplomacy and Intrigue autosucceses and just passively makes her at least competent at hundreds of small day to day things without us every putting in effort.

However the benefits around it are… a little bit fuzzy. It's unclear what actions it would actually unlock, it's really only useful if we actively choose to pursue those actions, it opens up a whole new action economy that's competing with stuff we want her to do and I feel like KC has specifically avoided confirming that stat increases are a likely benefit.

I'm getting really kinda stressed about the whole thing…

We are planning on increasing her Intrigue and Diplomacy, so it's not like it's applicable only to stats that we don't care about. Your point is basically "it will open more options for us" which isn't a negative at all.

Still prefer Cassandra to develop her own style and skills instead of imitating other people. We are rich enough to have her go the Gilgamesh-route, no need to be poor and develop via the Emiya-route.

Not only are the two not exclusive (she can develop past the point of what she copied) but the trait saves an obscene amount of time and makes learning skills in general so much easier. For example, she can watch a world-class diplomat give a speech and instantly adopt his body language and voice inclinations and refine it to suit her from there.
 
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Memetic Me: Cassandra contemplates the ways she's subtly shaped youth culture to make her peers more "tolerable". From petty things like ensuring that her preferred hairstyle and fashion sense are seen as "hip", "trendy" and "in", and her deliberately appearing on the covers of magazines, to more concerning things like her owning/creating several of the most popular and influential accounts across multiple social media platforms and her ensuring that memes of Superman failing/being pathetic remain widely shared across the internet to the outright disturbing where she's subtly encouraging people to accept her as authoritarian dictator and subtly encouraging the most rabid of her fanatics to silence opposition.
Okay. I admit that this is now... more appealing. The utterly direct "she'd be better at undermining Superman's popularity" aspect simply had not occurred to me.

Monkey See, Monkey Better than You: Cassandra sneaks out of LexCorp tower in order to go and watch a sports game to be able to perfectly analyze and replicate their motions/skills so that she can further improve herself. She's already a multiple-gold medalist in nearly two dozen separate events at the youth Olympics but Cassandra wants to be better at even more so she keeps collecting more and more and more in order to truly cement herself as the best at everything ever. If you want to end it in a funny manner you can have Bette Kane comically cursing her "rival" as she struggles to catch up to the utter ridiculousness that is Cassandra Luthor.
"I worked on that routine for a month!"
"...and I worked on it for five minutes."
 
[X] [Crash] Take over and rebrand Crash Alley Street races
[X] [Direct] King of Crime
[X] [Direct] Cry of the Unborn God
[X] [Direct] Pirates of Nassau
[X] [Crock] Have Talia disguise herself and approach Paula Crock in private while Lady Vic in a digital decoy mask hides and waits to ambush should either of the crocks attempt to run or fight. Bring spare digital decoy masks incase we come to an agreement with the Crocks and need to disguise them.
[X] [Trait] ?????

[x] [Tower] Make non-impactful renovations to LexCorp tower
-[X] [Renovate] Have large American flags be prominent in the lobby of LexCorp tower
-[x] [Renovate] Get Janus a room that's meant to imitate a Savannah
-[x] [Renovate] Install a giant fish tank at Lightyear Entertainments headquarters
-[x] [Renovate] Create a designated sauna room for Snowy
-[x] [Renovate] Allow Cassandra to decorate her personal gym
-[x] [Renovate] Allow Jade to purchase kabuki masks to hang on her rooms walls
-[X] [Renovate] Update the bowling alleys to use animations involving prominent LexCorp figures
-[x] [Renovate] Let Jinx install a chocolate fountain in her room
-[x] [Renovate] Build an extra 3 bookshelves for Raven
-[X] [Renovate] Install a waterslide
-[x] [Renovate] Build a room in Lightyear Entertainment's headquarters that plays their material nonstop
-[x] [Renovate] Build a popcorn machine for the theaters
-[x] [Renovate] Allow Jinx to stick a gold name plate on the door to her room
-[x] [Renovate] Improve the inter-kitchen intercom system
-[x] [Renovate] Install a comfortable massage chair in Mercy's office/command center
-[X] [Renovate] Install a statue of nemesis before the law offices
-[X] [Renovate] Install a giant chess board with remote control pieces
-[x] [Renovate] Install a statue garden dedicated to LexCorp's success on the grounds outside
-[X] [Renovate] Install a performative "Ultraviolet signal" on the roof of LexCorp tower
-[x] [Renovate] Install coffee machines on every floor available to the general workforce
-[X] [Renovate] Include a "the doctor is in" sign on Rene Carpenter's office
-[x] [Renovate] Install more L-Phone charging stations
-[X] [Renovate] Install a table with replicas of Metropolis and Tokyo Lexcorp Towers side by side with a plaque reading "closer than you think" between them.
-[X] [Renovate] Install a portrait of Lex and Cassandra in Lex's office.
 
I'm confused about the "install a statue of nemesis before the law offices" renovation option; who or what is nemesis?
 
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I'm confused about the "install a of nemesis before the law offices" renovation option; who or what is nemesis?
Nemesis is a thing IRL, she's the Greek Goddess of retribution and she's sometimes conflated/combined with the more traditional Greek Goddess of justice Themis. If you've ever seen a picture/statue of a winged woman with scales and a sword (sometimes blinded) that's either Nemesis or based on Nemesis. Nemesis serves as the archetype on which the modern conception of "Lady Justice" (the allegorical personification of moral force in judicial systems and a symbol still used commonly in the modern day) is based on, only Nemesis explicitly leans on the more retributive and punishing side of justice.
 
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Have people discussed which traits are better cooperation wise?

Memetic me seems to me like a good way to boost Cass popularity thus improving coop scores, especially when hiring new people perhaps we can eventually recruit from her fans.

Monkey See, Monkey Better than You boosting her arrogance meanwhile makes me concerned about opposite effect, plus some people unlikely to be happy with her stealing their moves, those among our hero units I mean.

Is there any other trait that can potentially boost coop scores with Cass?
 
Have people discussed which traits are better cooperation wise?

Memetic me seems to me like a good way to boost Cass popularity thus improving coop scores, especially when hiring new people perhaps we can eventually recruit from her fans.

Monkey See, Monkey Better than You boosting her arrogance meanwhile makes me concerned about opposite effect, plus some people unlikely to be happy with her stealing their moves, those among our hero units I mean.

Is there any other trait that can potentially boost coop scores with Cass?

I don't see any trait affecting her coop scores in any way. Being popular on social media and such isn't going to affect her ability to work with others, it's just going to improve her ability to manipulate masses of people at large via stuff like memes and propaganda. It's basically the equivalent of saying that someone who's good at marketing is also good at working with people - it's a vastly different skillset.

I don't believe in this narrative at all either way. Cassandra is very good at working with others and that's not going to change due to any one trait.
 
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