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NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

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[X] You'd prefer the deal in some other product or service (Write in)
-[X] You came here for food, and the King can probably get a better deal from his subjects than you can. Ask for 3/4 the value of the whetstone trade in coin, and the rest in food.
-[X] (Optional) Haggle on the Wolf Pelts (Opposed Silver-Tongue Check)
--[X] We will flatly not accept anything less than 20 pounds no matter what. We'd rather just not make the deal on them.

[X] Accept only the mercenary offer

Threnodist said:
Guys, touring our ship is definitely worth more than a pound of silver. Norse naval superiority is a major asset against the English and letting SuperSmart!KingAlfred onto our ship is probably gonna leak a lot of Norse shipbuilding techniques. I'm not against the idea of English-Norse parity, but the information is worth more than 1 pound of silver.

[X] Accept only the mercenary offer
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I don't think he'll sus out how to perfectly replicate Norse ships or anything with a single look at our boats, but it probably would lead to him getting some ideas, which would strengthen the English. I'm not super against that, but in this case it's only for 11 oz of silver... which isn't really worth it to be honest.
 
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Threnodist said:
Norse naval superiority is a major asset against the English and letting SuperSmart!KingAlfred onto our ship is probably gonna leak a lot of Norse shipbuilding techniques.
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I feel

That may be meta gaming.

It also assumes a pan Nordic allegiance that doesn't actually exist; the Norse are just as willing to kill each other than anyone else, and Halla isn't exactly invested in the Danelaw kingdoms.

[X] Accept both offers
 
Threnodist said:
Guys, touring our ship is definitely worth more than a pound of silver. Norse naval superiority is a major asset against the English and letting SuperSmart!KingAlfred onto our ship is probably gonna leak a lot of Norse shipbuilding techniques. I'm not against the idea of English-Norse parity, but the information is worth more than 1 pound of silver.
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If he can reverse engineer a ship from a single tour he deserves the biggest navy he can build
 
Orbmorb said:
My main concern is we don't need to win, or even come close to winning, for Alfred to accomplish that goal. If we all get killed, as long as we do some damage on the way out, that still serves as a reminder that Vikings are serious business
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Alfred's goal isn't to intimidate the nobles, though. I mean, sure, it'd probably change a few people's minds but mainly he wants to gain direct ownership of the land they control. I assume so he can actually get money from the land to pay the Danegeld. Or to punish unruly nobles. Perhaps both.
 
[X] You'd prefer the deal in some other product or service (Write in)
-[X] You came here for food, and the King can probably get a better deal from his subjects than you can. Ask for 3/4 the value of the whetstone trade in coin, and the rest in food.
-[X] (Optional) Haggle on the Wolf Pelts (Opposed Silver-Tongue Check)
--[X] We will flatly not accept anything less than 20 pounds no matter what. We'd rather just not make the deal on them.

[X] Accept only the mercenary offer
 
[X] You'd prefer the deal in some other product or service (Write in)
-[X] You came here for food, and the King can probably get a better deal from his subjects than you can. Ask for 3/4 the value of the whetstone trade in coin, and the rest in food.
-[X] (Optional) Haggle on the Wolf Pelts (Opposed Silver-Tongue Check)
--[X] We will flatly not accept anything less than 20 pounds no matter what. We'd rather just not make the deal on them.

[X] Accept both offers
 
[X] You'd prefer the deal in some other product or service (Write in)
-[X] You came here for food, and the King can probably get a better deal from his subjects than you can. Ask for 3/4 the value of the whetstone trade in coin, and the rest in food.
-[X] (Optional) Haggle on the Wolf Pelts (Opposed Silver-Tongue Check)
--[X] We will flatly not accept anything less than 20 pounds no matter what. We'd rather just not make the deal on them.

[X] Accept both offers
 
So Alfred is 100% giving us the mercenary contract so that he can claim deniability, right? Whether we fail or succeed, he can point and say "Oh how terrible, those awful Vikings were raiding again! Sure shows what terrible things can happen when you lose the protection of your King!". It's a way of intervening which causes less political ramifications than handling things personally.

Cunning bastard, I like him already.

Anyway, I'd be tempted to push him a bit higher on the mercenary work. If deniability is important, then we've got a bit of leverage over him. Although honestly the right to loot their lands is probably going to be the real prize here anyway, and we're already going to make bank on this trip, so I don't really mind.
 
[X] You'd prefer the deal in some other product or service (Write in)
-[X] You came here for food, and the King can probably get a better deal from his subjects than you can. Ask for 3/4 the value of the whetstone trade in coin, and the rest in food.
-[X] (Optional) Haggle on the Wolf Pelts (Opposed Silver-Tongue Check)
--[X] We will flatly not accept anything less than 20 pounds no matter what. We'd rather just not make the deal on them.

[X] Accept only the mercenary offer

Bad Alfred! No getting good ships. Don't want to start the British Empire Early afterall.
 
I have no idea what food prices are like in practical terms and would appreciate some ballpark indication of how much food we actually need.

Anyway.

[X] Accept only the mercenary offer

Definitely in favor of this one. The issue isn't so much _Alfred_ getting a look at Norse naval superiority as it is _Christianity_ doing so; this land is dead and awful to us as orthstirr cultivators, and the spread of its culture means the doom of all we hold dear. Let's not give it any more handouts than we need to.
 
How much is there to tour on a norse ship? They didn't exactly have a belowdecks or anything you can't see from the dock, if the pictures I'm seeing are indicative.
 
Skippy said:
So Alfred is 100% giving us the mercenary contract so that he can claim deniability, right? Whether we fail or succeed, he can point and say "Oh how terrible, those awful Vikings were raiding again! Sure shows what terrible things can happen when you lose the protection of your King!". It's a way of intervening which causes less political ramifications than handling things personally.

Cunning bastard, I like him already.
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It might also be an object lesson even if he claims responsibility "Well, you didn't want to spend for the Danegeld, so I sent some Danes to show you why you should." I suspect these are people far from the border and he wants to show them what the Norse are like. Deniability is still more likely, but there are pluses even if he cops to hiring us.

Skippy said:
Anyway, I'd be tempted to push him a bit higher on the mercenary work. If deniability is important, then we've got a bit of leverage over him. Although honestly the right to loot their lands is probably going to be the real prize here anyway, and we're already going to make bank on this trip, so I don't really mind.
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Yeah, if we're allowed to loot I think the price is fine. Plus the offer of future work...
 
[X] You'd prefer the deal in some other product or service (Write in)
-[X] You came here for food, and the King can probably get a better deal from his subjects than you can. Ask for 3/4 the value of the whetstone trade in coin, and the rest in food.
-[X] (Optional) Haggle on the Wolf Pelts (Opposed Silver-Tongue Check)
--[X] We will flatly not accept anything less than 20 pounds no matter what. We'd rather just not make the deal on them.

[X] Accept only the mercenary offer

I agree that the boat tour is suspicious. In addition to the tech issue, I have another concern. What if Alfred can scry on the ship after he steps on it? We know that Winchester has powerful protection against scrying. What if they can do that as well? I know it might be a bit of a reach, but I can imagine that powerful defenses also mean they can perform the technique as well. Taking a tour of the ship might give the king enough familiarity to scry on the ship from any distance. This is really good for Alfred.

Now you might be asking, "why does it matter if he can scry on the ship?" It is important because it is a viking ship. He can see every port we stop in, how many people are on the ship, and where and when we go out raiding. That is a massive amount of intelligence. If he wants to invade Norway in a century or two, seeing where our boat goes lets him know the status of the land and people. I think Alfred is trying to be sneaky with this, and the risk is not worth the cost.
 
Alfred invading everyone does assume that the tide turns dramatically in his favour.

In real history, it seems Alfred the Great managed to hold off the Norse invaders, but after his death resistance crumbled; Christian Norse came to rule the country in the eleventh century under King Cnut.

Even if he can somehow learn the secrets of Norse shipbuilding and scary our vessel wherever we go, that…. really doesn't seem sufficient to crush the Danelaw so hard he counter invades, even assuming he wants to sail that far into literally hostile territory.
 
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Alfred historically built a navy and won several key naval battles; naval power was part of his strategy for combatting Norse raids, as a counter-attack by English ships could chase down raiding ships, either attacking them at sea or trapping them against the coast. Alfred even reputed to have designed the "double-hulled" ships for his new fleet himself, and while this probably isn't true, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that he was heavily involved in the construction. This was also a bit of a learning experience for his sailors; during one naval battle with Vikings at the Isle of Wight in 896 where they managed to trap the raiders in an estuary, at one point all the Saxon ships ran aground.

So yeah, it seems very likely he wants to look at our ship for cues on copying and countering the design. Personally, I don't have a huge issue with that? Alfred's been very reasonable so far, and it's not like we have any particular loyalty to Guthrum.

We could ask for more money than a single pound of silver, but I feel like the real prize here might be spending some time and building a bit more of a personal relationship with one of the crowned heads of Europe. If finding a way to peacefully coexist with Christians is something Halla wants to find a road towards, then an informal meeting with the King of England is not a bad place to start.
 
[X] Accept the deal as is
-[X] Don't sell the Water-Wolf Pelts
[X] Accept only the mercenary offer

Rather not give Bote knowledge, and I would rather not attempt negotiating with someone who is way better at Silver-tongue that us while also annoying him/his Thanes.

If we're going for our lower bound on Wolf Pelt prices, I feel it's better to just trade them elsewhere entirely.
 
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Mozzy said:
I agree that the boat tour is suspicious. In addition to the tech issue, I have another concern. What if Alfred can scry on the ship after he steps on it? We know that Winchester has powerful protection against scrying. What if they can do that as well? I know it might be a bit of a reach, but I can imagine that powerful defenses also mean they can perform the technique as well. Taking a tour of the ship might give the king enough familiarity to scry on the ship from any distance. This is really good for Alfred.
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I mean... how? Given that he's supposedly an Anglo-Saxon cultivator, he wouldn't be able to use magic at all. Now he's also got a little bit of Christian cultivation on the side, but he's definitely on the Nobiliary Path, rather than the Clerical Path, so I doubt he'd be able to use magic like that - he probably specialises in buffs and whatnot. Minor buffs at that, given he only dabbles.

And like, say he can scry our ship somehow... we have an veteran Seeress with decades of experience on our boat. Like, there's very little chance he could get away with scrying our boat for an extended period of time. It might be possible with some super artifact or something, but like... all that, on some random Norsemen you've just met, when he already has his hands full with the Danelaw?

Like, I don't want to do the boat tour either, but that's because I feel like he gets much more our of it than we do (potential ideas to improve ships, whereas we only get 11 oz of silver).
 
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[X] You'd prefer the deal in some other product or service (Write in)
-[X] You came here for food, and the King can probably get a better deal from his subjects than you can. Ask for 3/4 the value of the whetstone trade in coin, and the rest in food.
-[X] (Optional) Haggle on the Wolf Pelts (Opposed Silver-Tongue Check)
--[X] We will flatly not accept anything less than 20 pounds no matter what. We'd rather just not make the deal on them.

[X] Accept both offers


I want to reduce his temptation to double-cross us.
 
Skippy said:
Alfred historically built a navy and won several key naval battles; naval power was part of his strategy for combatting Norse raids, as a counter-attack by English ships could chase down raiding ships, either attacking them at sea or trapping them against the coast. Alfred even reputed to have designed the "double-hulled" ships for his new fleet himself, and while this probably isn't true, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that he was heavily involved in the construction. This was also a bit of a learning experience for his sailors; during one naval battle with Vikings at the Isle of Wight in 896 where they managed to trap the raiders in an estuary, at one point all the Saxon ships ran aground.

So yeah, it seems very likely he wants to look at our ship for cues on copying and countering the design. Personally, I don't have a huge issue with that? Alfred's been very reasonable so far, and it's not like we have any particular loyalty to Guthrum.

We could ask for more money than a single pound of silver, but I feel like the real prize here might be spending some time and building a bit more of a personal relationship with one of the crowned heads of Europe. If finding a way to peacefully coexist with Christians is something Halla wants to find a road towards, then an informal meeting with the King of England is not a bad place to start.
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It's a bunch of knowledge for like 11 silver, which is just sad. I'd rather get like, knowledge for knowledge.
 
Constenanto said:
Like, I don't want to do the boat tour either, but that's because I feel like he gets much more our of it than we do (potential ideas to improve ships, whereas we only get 11 oz of silver).
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I feel that's the wrong way to look at it.

I, personally, could hardly care if the Danelaw gets thrashed black and blue on English soil; from that perspective, he may gain more than us, but what do we actually lose? Better English ships are near-irrelevant to us, especially as we're already uncomfortable with marauding.

We show the king how cool our boat is for a half an hour get paid A Significant Amount. Considering how much we're running already to get silver-for-food- well, that's pretty easy money, isn't it?
 
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