Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting will open in 9 hours, 56 minutes
[X] [BEHAVIOUR] Charge
[X] [BEHAVIOUR] Duel
[X] [NUMBER] Trio
[X] [NUMBER] Lance

Rider feels like the wrong apparition to make a Bodyguard.
 
Last edited:
[ ] [BEHAVIOUR] Duel
The Rider will appear at your location and move towards a chosen individual, and will engage them until it or the Rider is slain.
[ ] [BEHAVIOUR] Charge
The Rider will appear at your location and charge towards a specific group of people, and will engage them until it is slain or the group is destroyed or shattered.
How does Charge react to being told to charge a single individual? And how does Duel react to being told to duel someone that has more enemies between them and the Rider?


[ ] [BEHAVIOUR] Instinctive
The Rider will lay dormant until someone or something within several kilometers uses destructive magic, at which point it will manifest and hone in on that being and attempt to destroy them.
[ ] [BEHAVIOUR] Bodyguard
The Rider will lay dormant until you attack or are attacked by someone, at which point it will manifest and fight alongside you until combat is over or it is slain.
Do these two imply that the Rider auto-summons without the caster actively casting anything? And how does the first one react to situations with multiple destructive casters, some of whom might not be preferred targets to the controller?

Also, do I assume correctly that there is no option for targeted summoning? No summoning a Lance somewhere other than oneself so as to make them charge the enemy at a flank? Although I guess that this is not really an issue, given that pretty much all Wizards using this spell have access to Smoke and Mirrors.

It doesn't have to travel from you to the target, it just appears next to them. That way it can't be intercepted or prepared for.
What makes it unsunmon so quickly with Ambush anyway? Why is an Ambush version that strikes more than once not a castable spell?

Finally, what effective range do the various versions of the spell have? Full line of sight plus wherever the chase takes the Rider after that if self-directed for all of them?
 
[X] [BEHAVIOUR] Charge
[X] [NUMBER] Trio
[X] [NUMBER] Lance

I wouldn't mind bodyguard but we went into this and chose the form with lots of us thinking about cavalry charges.
 
[x] [NUMBER] One

Even the posdibility of it before ng sub-battlemagic is good enough for how great and important bltge divide between battle and regular magic is.
 
Id like to have more than one rider so Ill approval vote all those options. For behaviour Id like to have something to influence somewhere we are not directly physically present, so Duel or preferably Charge. I wont be to sad if Bodyguard wins, but to me it only enhances what we already do, while the other two give us access to a capability we currently lack which an apparition spell is uniquely suited to.

[x] [BEHAVIOUR] Duel
[x] [BEHAVIOUR] Charge
[x] [NUMBER] Trio
[x] [NUMBER] Lance
[x] [NUMBER] Band
 
How does Charge react to being told to charge a single individual? And how does Duel react to being told to duel someone that has more enemies between them and the Rider?
Boney said Charge would be less effective against single targets because they can either try to get out of the way or hide among a bigger group.

Duel will have the Rider pursue the target regardless of enemies in between, so it will probably just barrel through them - horses are good at that.

Do these two imply that the Rider auto-summons without the caster actively casting anything? And how does the first one react to situations with multiple destructive casters, some of whom might not be preferred targets to the controller?
Boney elaborated that we need to cast them before they are in this state where they will act on their own. It's not permanently on.

Also, do I assume correctly that there is no option for targeted summoning? No summoning a Lance somewhere other than oneself so as to make them charge the enemy at a flank? Although I guess that this is not really an issue, given that pretty much all Wizards using this spell have access to Smoke and Mirrors.
You presume correctly.

I'd assume Ambush is that limited because you're summoning something bound to your soul much farther away from you.
 
Last edited:
[X] [BEHAVIOUR] Bodyguard
[X] [NUMBER] One

If we can make this a Fiendishly Complex spell, and we have the Coin to help us do that, then it'll be far, far more useful to the Grey College than if it ends up being Battle Magic level. There are only 20-30 Battle Mages at any time, but hundreds of Magisters. Many Magisters will be able to learn it at Magic 5, and reliably cast it at Magic 7. Meanwhile, few Magisters who reach Magic 7 then go on to learn Battle Magic, or like Regimand, only learn the (safe once you learn it) spell Smoke and Mirrors.

More importantly, this will be the second direct damage spell in the Grey College's entire non-BM spellbook. Making it incredibly valuable for every squishy Grey Magister who doesn't want to die in direct combat, and/or needs the magic firepower to fight all the dangerous, magical that need fighting.
 
Last edited:
Are you telling me I can't staple a delicious burrito onto my soul? :'(
You will have to find, subdue, and cover in appropriate wind, the said burrito.
But after that, sure you can. :V

edit-
Even assuming this does not end up battlemagic, i can see a world where it becomes a restricted spell just for the knowledge it contains.
Though it might not.

Also, there's like a hundred or so magisters per college, isn't there?
 
Last edited:
This line of thinking is the sort of thing that makes me genuinely worried that should 1 Rider turn out to still be Battle Magic, which for the record it might, people will just outright refuse to use it and all this effort will have been for nothing

I get it, Battlemagic is inherently risky
But Battle Wizards still exist
People like Goendul throw this kind of stuff around as her day job on the regular, and we didn't act like she was a walking time bomb when we went spelunking in Drakenhof with her

Every other Battle Wizard likewise tosses this kind of stuff around when they accompany armies of friendlies who'd make terrible collateral damage when they do it
And we hold it to be wrong to treat them as walking Warp Rifts that'll deposit Daemons into the armies rear end

There are ways to mitigate the risk, probably traits and the like
But Mathilde isn't going to ever find them if she refuses to push boundaries

Battle mages do indeed exist and from the perspective of the Empire make sense, from the perspective of the battlemage they have a limited lifespan until the casting of battle magic spells gets to them. Mathilde is not even a Battle mage, she does not have whatever miscast mitigating traits those poor bastards use to eke out a bit more lifespan. If one still comes out battle magic with codify it and get a bit of CF from the people who are minded to roll the dice for 'your soul is now a plaything of demons' just to get up to that next tier of magic.

[X] [BEHAVIOUR] Bodyguard
[X] [NUMBER] One
 
Can I reiterate how big this would be if it stays below battlemagic?

First, we don't cast battlemagic level difficulty spells. The few battlemagics we do use are all dependent on exploiting the Staff of Mistery.

Second, a non-battle magic spell is useable by far more than just battle wizards. Many magisters won't use battlemagic, others don't have access.

Third, the extra AP wouldn't just hit us, but also other wizards, making the spell less attractive.



As for charging: Penumbral Pendulum does similar stuff already. It doesn't fill any hole in the Grey Wizard arsenal (EDIT: at Battlemagic). The grey wizards are great at buffs/debuffs, mobility, and mass damage. We are bad at single target damage and melee. Why add another spell to our mass damage? It's offers little comparative advantage.
 
Last edited:
I feel that the attempt to reduce difficulty and AP spent is just reducing the effectiveness of the spell for not sufficient gains in savings.
 
So question @Boney if the Rider is dismissed via damage how long would it likely take to be able to resummon it? Like would it be a day or simply require recasting the spell?
 
[X] [NUMBER] One

I'll be honest and say that I am voting for this mostly for aesthetic reasons. I did not vote for the winning option, but now that we picked it, multiple Dämmerlichterreiters just seems weird to me.

I'm not sure about the behavioral options. Given one Rider, I can see valuable advantages to all except for Instinctive.
Duel will have the Rider pursue the target regardless of enemies in between, so it will probably just barrel through them - horses are good at that.
Horses are good at some of that, but they can't just wade through troops as if they were water, even if said regiments are not armed with spears. And that's especially true if One wins. If the Rider blindly rides through instead of doing things like looking for more accessible angles and/or actively hacking at obstacles impeding it then that would be worse than using Charge to ride down a single target and losing it in the crowd. At least in battlefield environments. In "collateral damage is allowed" chases through crowded areas you'd definitely prefer Duel, but personally I'd prefer not using the spell like that at all. Mathilde (and the average Grey Magister) have enough tools to hunt and kill escaping VIPs that don't involve riding over random crowds.
Boney elaborated that we need to cast them before they are in this state where they will act on their own. It's not permanently on.
Hmm. That seems good enough for Bodyguard, but could still have all kinds of weird interactions with Instinctive if we are unlucky. The range means that someone somewhere completely unrelated to what we want to do triggers it.
I'd assume Ambush is that limited because you're summoning something bound to your soul much farther away from you.
I guess? But there seems to be no problem maintaining the Rider far away, as long as it isn't summoned there. I get that ultimately it comes down to balance and providing multiple valid choices, but I was kind of curious about the Watsonian rationale.
[X] [BEHAVIOUR] Bodyguard
[X] [NUMBER] One

If we can make this a Fiendishly Complex spell, and we have the Coin to help us do that, then it'll be far, far more useful to the Grey College than if it ends up being Battle Magic level. There are only 20-30 Battle Mages at any time, but hundreds of Magisters. Many Magisters will be able to learn it at Magic 5, and reliably cast it at Magic 7. Meanwhile, few Magisters who reach Magic 7 then go on to learn Battle Magic, or like Regimand, only learn the (safe once you learn it) spell Smoke and Mirrors.

More importantly, this will be the second direct damage spell in the Grey College's entire non-BM spellbook. Making it incredibly valuable for every squishy Grey Magister who doesn't want to die in direct combat, and/or needs the magic firepower to fight all the dangerous, magical that need fighting.
Something like Charge/One or Duel/One would allow a bunch of Grey Magisters to provide their own knight charge just as well or better than a more rare single Grey Battle Mage summoning multiple would.
 
Something like Charge/One or Duel/One would allow a bunch of Grey Magisters to provide their own knight charge just as well or better than a more rare single Grey Battle Mage summoning multiple would.

In the very rare event where a bunch of Grey Magisters who all know the spell are on the same battlefield odds are they have better things to do with their time and their magic.
 
[X] [BEHAVIOUR] Bodyguard
[X] [NUMBER] One

Bodyguard means a Grey Wizard can cast it, waltz up to a target unarmed and start a fistfight. Then BOOM, instant lethal backup.

Also, maybe we can make a magic item to auto-cast this if we're attacked whilst sleeping or otherwise vulnerable.
 
I'm still not convinced Bodyguard is the right choice.

Mathilde is an outlier among grey wizards with how well she can duke it in melee, and how often she gets in combat.

Any other grey wizard capable of this spell has multiple other options to gtfo, and that would be a superior option in almost all cases. Mathilde has Branalhune which distorts the calculus.

The Bodyguard vote changes an destructive, offensive apparition into a reactive defensive spell.
 
Can I reiterate how big this would be if it stays below battlemagic?

First, we don't cast battlemagic level difficulty spells. The few battlemagics we do use are all dependent on exploiting the Staff of Mistery.

Second, a non-battle magic spell is useable by far more than just battle wizards. Many magisters won't use battlemagic, others don't have access.

Third, the extra AP wouldn't just hit us, but also other wizards, making the spell less attractive.



As for charging: Penumbral Pendulum does similar stuff already. It doesn't fill any hole in the Grey Wizard arsenal. The grey wizards are great at buffs/debuffs, mobility, and mass damage. We are bad at single target damage and melee. Why add another spell to our mass damage? It's offers little comparative advantage.

'We dont use battlemagic. We dont want battlemagic' pairs really badly with 'there is already this battlemagic spell that does the same'.

btw. unrelated to the above quote: 'we want a spell that any grey magister can use' and 'bodyguard does the same as charge, because we just knight charge together with the apparition' are similarly contradictory arguments.

There are enough good arguments for those options without needing to resort to those logical contradictions, imo
 
Voting will open in 9 hours, 56 minutes
Back
Top