Someone already has with a more colourful version of those maps, though if you compare it to the originals can see the points where things didn't slot together quite right. And for some reason they left out Westerland and the Moot while leaving in Kislev.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Someone already has with a more colourful version of those maps, though if you compare it to the originals can see the points where things didn't slot together quite right. And for some reason they left out Westerland and the Moot while leaving in Kislev.
If we are going for Kislev tributaries, I'd like to have the Protector on for a few reasons :
1. It might help Boris's father understand their importance and the fact we come in good faith with our gift of information,
2. Might raise our rep in Kislev in general,
3. Always using the Gambler is kind of boring,
4. We could share the tributaries with Bretonia on the same turn and also reap benefits,
5. If there is a combat interrupt, we could reap unforseen benefits,
1. It might help Boris's father understand their importance and the fact we come in good faith with our gift of information,
2. Might raise our rep in Kislev in general,
3. Always using the Gambler is kind of boring,
4. We could share the tributaries with Bretonia on the same turn and also reap benefits,
5. If there is a combat interrupt, we could reap unforseen benefits,
to be fair, maps not lining up perfectly is right in character for Warhammer.
I doubt even the Elves and Dwarfs had perfect maps, constering that spending 100 years at it would mean that the borders were redrawn by the time they were done.
one of the unintended side effects of the project will probably be a vastly updated map of the old world, and even then, it probs not going to have a lot of detail because not one of the people involved are a cartographer.
let alone anything on a OSmap we have today.
I doubt even the Elves and Dwarfs had perfect maps, constering that spending 100 years at it would mean that the borders were redrawn by the time they were done.
one of the unintended side effects of the project will probably be a vastly updated map of the old world, and even then, it probs not going to have a lot of detail because not one of the people involved are a cartographer.
let alone anything on a OSmap we have today.
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The entire crux of this discussion is a spell that attracts greenskins VIA the Waaagh field. No trust needed.
The protector isn't going to work on the tributaries. The benefits are too indirect. There has to be a direct and obvious effect.
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It might not be the best idea to unilaterally hand tributaries ti a state that was not part of the Project and it is cased on the sacred secrets of several institutions that are not ours
Also this yes, if you have to explain it to someone it does not work.
well, maybe.
for a lot(most, 99.999% really) of places absolutely.
but Pragg is bad enough that any down-tick in blood-floods, random mutations, and sinisterly laughing snow bunnies after the wizards, ice-witches and Hags built some stone things will be noticeable.
Tributaries would not do much to Praag, too much weight of Dhar, the place has a broken Nexus in the middle of it at the Fire Spire.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
We have no way of knowing that and nothing suggesting it.
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I think we have plenty suggesting it, Tributaries deal with Earthbound magic, Pragg is so infested with Dhar some of the parts of it have come spontaneously alive. Mathilde compared them to street gutters, this is the aftermath of a hurricane laced with radioactive waste.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
And what about any of that says that it must be because of a broken nexus, and specifically in the Fire Spire?
I think even for Prag it's too indirect. You'd still have to explain that the improvement is due to the new drains, even assuming the improvement is very fast, as in hours. More likely it would get better over years, and that's not obvious.
I know. I was pointing out that it will be much easier to get the support of the Tzar to actually implement both tributaries and waystones if we have something visually impressive to display than trying to persuade him to invest in tributaries at this juncture. From the way his attitude has been described he would be pretty uninterested in tributaries, and as the saying goes "you only get one chance to make a first impression".
If the first thing we bring before him is something he'd find boring and not be particularly interested in, it will be much harder to get an audience to meet with him or to impress him once we have the waystones proper.
Are the tributaries a net good? Certainly. But they take a decade at minimum to pay off, and waiting a year or two now and getting enthusiastic support for a full rollout will result in a much better overall result than getting half assed support right now that might result in many fewer tributaries being built and make it harder for us to really push waystones when they're ready.
Now if we seemed to still be a decade away from any sort of Waystones proper I might change my mind, but as is I think rushing into things with the idea of "Get tributaries up in Kislev right now" without considering the politics will result in a worse outcome for Kislev.
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- Location
- Somewhere between the stars
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The coin was also made from stolen energy from Ork God. It might spesifcally have a narrative effect of being extra effective against Greenskins, compared to even other divine artifacts. The coin is such an outliner, it should not be counted as norm or even abnormal
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
The spell we can make per Word of Boney is restyling an apparitions as a greenskin, not summoning other greenskins via any kind of Waaagh field manipulation.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
After seeing some more thread discussion on next turn plans, I have made some revisions to my proposed plan (previous discussion 1, 2). I concluded that having everyone on Waystone Foundations is probably too much, and that next turn is probably a better opportunity for Kislev Tributaries than exploring the Karaz Ankor network.
[ ] Plan Bring a good pair of running shoes
-[ ] JOHANN: Hunt an apparition (Rider in Red)
--[ ] COIN: The Gambler
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[ ] EGRIMM: Write a paper (Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands), Egrimm as primary author
-[ ] Waystone: Foundation (Thorek, Hatalath, Sarvoi, Niedzwenka, Egrimm, Elrisse, Tochter)
-[ ] Tributary: International (Kislev) (Zlata, Niedzwenka, Aksel, Cadaeth)
-[ ] Attempt to create a liminal realm
-[ ] EIC: Negotiate and plan a magical route through the Schadensumpf to allow for easier trade with the Eonir without compromising their defenses
-[ ] KAU: Begin copying the full corpus of a Partner Library (Grand University of Nuln)
-[ ] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae Part 1
-[ ] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windfall paper, EIC action
-[ ] Eike Study: Intrigue (Red Team against EIC)
Other thoughts:
[ ] Plan Bring a good pair of running shoes
-[ ] JOHANN: Hunt an apparition (Rider in Red)
--[ ] COIN: The Gambler
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[ ] EGRIMM: Write a paper (Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands), Egrimm as primary author
-[ ] Waystone: Foundation (Thorek, Hatalath, Sarvoi, Niedzwenka, Egrimm, Elrisse, Tochter)
-[ ] Tributary: International (Kislev) (Zlata, Niedzwenka, Aksel, Cadaeth)
-[ ] Attempt to create a liminal realm
-[ ] EIC: Negotiate and plan a magical route through the Schadensumpf to allow for easier trade with the Eonir without compromising their defenses
-[ ] KAU: Begin copying the full corpus of a Partner Library (Grand University of Nuln)
-[ ] SERENITY: Aethyric Vitae Part 1
-[ ] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windfall paper, EIC action
-[ ] Eike Study: Intrigue (Red Team against EIC)
Other thoughts:
- I still stand by putting The Gambler on hunting a Red Rider. There will be research to learn how to contain it, there will be investigation to track one down, and there will be risk in actually confronting and capturing it, so there are plenty of opportunities for Ranald to intervene, more so than the other actions.
- I still have Eike studying Intrigue and have tried to limit the actions she is involved in so she has time to work on it properly. I have already explained my thoughts on that.
- I may create variant plans to write Branarhune Part 1 or Coins of Nehekhara's Fifth Dynasty instead of Aethyric Vitae Part 1, but I personally am not worried about starting the AV book if we have done the Liminal Realm experiment and just need to make Morbs.
- edit: @Boney what I am trying to specify with "Eike Study: Intrigue (Red Team against EIC)" is basically what Mathymancer suggested here. Is this a valid Eike study action, and if so, is that a good way to describe it on the turn plan?
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dinomannitro6
all your gender is belong to us
- Location
- The Land Where The Sunflowers Bloom
Still not convinced about that, I think the Foundations is going to be the hardest part and having as many perspectives as possible on it will be important.
NexusEye
Aspiring God
- Pronouns
- She/Her
At the very least if we get another Daemon incident we would have a God of our own around to defend against their God, at least for long enough for us to bravely run away.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
For what it's worth, the Rider in Red absolutely is dangerous.
Mainly basing off of:
Hopefully Mathilde and Johann together can take one out without too much difficulty, but I can understand if people want the insurance.
(Though I expect the main impact of using the Coin would be luck helping to find the thing)
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
The perspectives I am leaving out are: Cadaeth, Zlata, Aksel, Johann, and Max. I think Cadaeth's perspective is covered well enough with Sarvoi for elven enchanting and Niedzwenka for "just use spirits dummy". For Zlata and Aksel, I think Niedzwenka covers the "get a god or spirit to do it" perspective well enough, and they can spend more time in Kislev working on Tributaries / getting in trouble when no one's looking. Finally, I don't think that Johann and Max have much to contribute, while the plan already gives them interesting stuff to do for their job, but Egrimm can contribute enchanting knowledge and otherwise would just be getting sat down and told "write the damn paper already".
Adding all those people in just makes the action more complicated, and harder for Boney to write, while not adding much in my opinion.
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The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Eike thought: I can't help but notice Eike's negative trait, Seen but Not Heard has parallels with Mathilde knightly motto: Unseen, but Not Unfelt. No idea if anything will ever come of that, but it feels like an opportunity.
More actionably, it also reminds me a lot of Mathilde's Practical trait that eventually metamorphized to Laconic once the tower of Serenity helped her start writing papers in earnest.
That, at least, --- Or even, for that matter, how Mathilde turned her Disdain for Sigmar into building strong relationships with the Karaz Ankor --- feels like a more personal/emotional lesson Mathilde could share with Eike: Her distaste and for speaking up doesn't have to be powered through, and Mathilde herself has struggled with similar. Attaining the confidence is only one solution among many: If Eike cannot then she can build an environment in which it no longer grates on her or find a context and skillset in which it no longer impedes her.
Looking at the Collegiate Interlude the tracks available to Mathilde back then were Enchantment, several forms of tutelage and form of lectures, tutoring, and taking apprentices; Intrigue in the form of interrogation and investigating reports of prohibited magic users; Academia in Research, Development, and Cataloguing; and the martial option of aiding in matters of import and the aforementioned investigations into prohibited magic users. There's doubtless things Mathilde herself was unsuited for there, and Eike will probably have different options, but I feel like that's a good start to look.
So with us having ideas for about her suitability in diplomacy and stewardship, it may also be worth considering what acts and/or lessons of intrigue or martial skill are worthy of an apprentice. Both to learn about her skills in those fields and to introduce her to the duties a Grey Wizard might eventually specialize in.
Beyond that the only things we have left to learn about her are her Piety, and the last of her Diplomacy skills (which may just be Karaz Ankor Diplomacy, given her childhood)
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Also on the speculative side, I suspect one of Eike's hidden martial skills may be horsemanship. She seemed quite confident with a Shadowsteed(first and second paragraphs) once she got used to the "magic" of the magic horse, though I'm not sure what her other martial skill might be.She did have three +1s before her Greatsword training completed, if I'm reading the updates right, so she should have another complete skill rather than a partial one. EDIT: Nope, It's reread and found Boney's text saying otherwise. So it's likely a partial skill rather than a complete one.
More actionably, it also reminds me a lot of Mathilde's Practical trait that eventually metamorphized to Laconic once the tower of Serenity helped her start writing papers in earnest.
That, at least, --- Or even, for that matter, how Mathilde turned her Disdain for Sigmar into building strong relationships with the Karaz Ankor --- feels like a more personal/emotional lesson Mathilde could share with Eike: Her distaste and for speaking up doesn't have to be powered through, and Mathilde herself has struggled with similar. Attaining the confidence is only one solution among many: If Eike cannot then she can build an environment in which it no longer grates on her or find a context and skillset in which it no longer impedes her.
I like this idea for Eike, and have a thought building on it further: It may be worth striving to expose Eike to all, or at least many, of the aspects of a Grey Wizard before she goes Journeying. She's sat on the edges of scholarship before and this would be one of her first active participations in scholarship and academia, plus she's also had little tastes of trade and diplomacy (and trade as a means towards diplomacy) through her involvement in the EIC and Laurelorn actions.
Looking at the Collegiate Interlude the tracks available to Mathilde back then were Enchantment, several forms of tutelage and form of lectures, tutoring, and taking apprentices; Intrigue in the form of interrogation and investigating reports of prohibited magic users; Academia in Research, Development, and Cataloguing; and the martial option of aiding in matters of import and the aforementioned investigations into prohibited magic users. There's doubtless things Mathilde herself was unsuited for there, and Eike will probably have different options, but I feel like that's a good start to look.
So with us having ideas for about her suitability in diplomacy and stewardship, it may also be worth considering what acts and/or lessons of intrigue or martial skill are worthy of an apprentice. Both to learn about her skills in those fields and to introduce her to the duties a Grey Wizard might eventually specialize in.
Beyond that the only things we have left to learn about her are her Piety, and the last of her Diplomacy skills (which may just be Karaz Ankor Diplomacy, given her childhood)
------
Also on the speculative side, I suspect one of Eike's hidden martial skills may be horsemanship. She seemed quite confident with a Shadowsteed(first and second paragraphs) once she got used to the "magic" of the magic horse, though I'm not sure what her other martial skill might be.
Fun thought: RE: Backfill - Social Sciences: Would said backfill also give the Library We, to whom the library is all but a prosthetic brain, more introduction to the varying mindsets and cultures of the Old World?
Agreed. Far beyond just the luck of the Gambler, our experiment is about the creation of a space halfway between reality and the realm of the gods, and in which the divine can more easily intervene--- as the Smug Bird so rudely demonstrated. Inviting the intervention and attention of a god who likes us, specifically, is probably a good idea.
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