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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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BurnNote said:
I think Vladimir specifically has a problem with the Ice Witches, because the last Katarin the Bloody was an Ice Witch before she was a vampire. I think he doesn't mind the Hags so much. Boris doing it under his own auhority is also an option (He clearly felt he could promise cooperation). And like with Roswita, the tributaries are easier because they're mostly just stone and don't don't do much magic.

Ultimatly, I think "We can make the bad magic go away" is very compelling to Kislev. They'll take it.
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At no point has Vladimir been a party to any of our "we can make the bad magic go away" negotiations. There might be a reason for that.

I think he just doesn't care very much about ruling the country outside of fighting.
 
Boney said:
- If there's a book topic that you think the Elementalists should have had - not that you wanted them to have had, something that it's so self-evident that they would have it that you think the lack of it is an oversight on my part - let me know.
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  • Combustion Chemistry: what substances burn together and the properties of those flames, probably with extra musing on how certain flames are rendered various colors or imbue poison into things cooked in them instead of purifying
  • Beneath the Waves: the kind of information a Water Elementalist might be able to find out about the depths of lakes and oceans, including about the various giant monsters that live there
  • enchantment (elementalist tools and spellcasting accoutrements): in particular I would expect them to have some relatively low-effort-for-low-effectiveness rites from a spellcasting tradition more rooted in human timescales rather than having a foundation of elven thought
  • Rites and Rituals (elementalist)
  • sailing, especially in terms of how water and wind magic can change things

Not the elementalists but more the libraries as whole
  • Writing Advice (academic)
  • Academic Political Factions and why all the other ones are clearly wrong
  • Divinity (Verena)
  • rhetoric
 
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Tomcost said:
The Eojir are not a unified polity and for the project to keep existing we need long term support for as many houses as we can.
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The Eojir know as much about the waystone project as well do. If they want to hurry up tributaries creation in their forrest they should be very able to do so without us needing to hold their hand.
 
fictionfan said:
The Eojir know as much about the waystone project as well do. If they want to hurry up tributaries creation in their forrest they should be very able to do so without us needing to hold their hand.
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They do need to negotiate with the Colleges to learn Lingua Praestaentia for the Dreaming Wood ritual.

We might be their preferred avenue to negotiate.
 
If I had to choose between Kislev and laurelorn for tributaries it would be Kislev 90% of the time. The elfs have long lives and longer patience for this stuff. Kislev just really wants less bad juju and will probably over the moon if we make that happen even just partially. We might even get a more senior ice witch if it looks like this actually worked.
 
Mopman43 said:
At no point has Vladimir been a party to any of our "we can make the bad magic go away" negotiations. There might be a reason for that.

I think he just doesn't care very much about ruling the country outside of fighting.
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That's why I said Kislev. Everyone there wants the magic to go away. If Vladimir isn't willing to give something as basic as permission and some minimal monetary support, then he'll face pushback along a very broad front.

Like, yeah, Boris is definitly more active as far as improving Kislev, and Vladimir doesn't like magic much. But apathy and dislike of magic does not translate to actively rejecting a way to have less magic.
 
Tobtorp said:
If I had to choose between Kislev and laurelorn for tributaries it would be Kislev 90% of the time. The elfs have long lives and longer patience for this stuff. Kislev just really wants less bad juju and will probably over the moon if we make that happen even just partially. We might even get a more senior ice witch if it looks like this actually worked.
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Also an Everchosen might be coming soon. Let's weaken Zars grip on the area as much as possible before then.
 
BurnNote said:
That's why I said Kislev. Everyone there wants the magic to go away. If Vladimir isn't willing to give something as basic as permission and some minimal monetary support, then he'll face pushback along a very broad front.

Like, yeah, Boris is definitly more active as far as improving Kislev, and Vladimir doesn't like magic much. But apathy and dislike of magic does not translate to actively rejecting a way to have less magic.
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Yeah, Vladimir might not like magic. But when his son and the foreign witch come over to ask for like 15 stones and 2 rota to make less juju then even he has to admit that's stupidly cheap.
 
DragonParadox said:
[ ] Plan Spreading Goodwill V2
-[ ] JOHANN: Hunt an apparition (Rider in Red)
--[ ] COIN: The Gambler
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[ ] EGRIMM: Write a paper (Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands)
-[ ] Waystone: Foundation (Elrisse, Tochter, Hatalath, Cadaeth, Sarvoi, Thorek)
-[ ] Waystone: Other Networks (Karaz Ankor) (Thorek)
-[ ] Tributary: International (Kislev) (Zlata, Niedzwenka, Aksel)
-[ ] EIC: Negotiate and plan a magical route through the Schadensumpf to allow for easier trade with the Eonir without compromising their defenses
-[ ] KAU: Begin copying the full corpus of a Partner Library (Grand University of Nuln)
-[ ] SERENITY: Coins of Nehekhara's Fifth Dynasty
-[ ] Eike Actions: Windfall paper, Waystone Foundation, EIC Action
-[ ] Eike Study: Magic (Sounds, then Bless Weapon, then whatever lesser spell makes sense)
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We should probably include either Cadaeth or Tochter in the Kislev tributaries action- just because they're the ones that made the Dreaming Wood ritual.

Admittedly, it's less relevant in Kislev than it would be in the Empire, but even outside of the Shirokij which is better covered by the Halethan ritual, the Dukhlys Forest brushing up against the Worlds Edge Mountains is pretty sizable, I imagine it has a Dreaming Wood.

Probably not a very nice one.
 
fictionfan said:
The Eojir know as much about the waystone project as well do. If they want to hurry up tributaries creation in their forrest they should be very able to do so without us needing to hold their hand.
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I thnk we're a long ways off the Waystone project's developments getting automatically rolled out by anyone.
 
Mopman43 said:
We should probably include either Cadaeth or Tochter in the Kislev tributaries action- just because they're the ones that made the Dreaming Wood ritual.

Admittedly, it's less relevant in Kislev than it would be in the Empire, but even outside of the Shirokij which is better covered by the Halethan ritual, the Dukhlys Forest brushing up against the Worlds Edge Mountains is pretty sizable, I imagine it has a Dreaming Wood.

Probably not a very nice one.
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Cadaeth confirming the Dukhlys has a Dreaming Wood (one Goblin-themed, so again, not nice)
Boney said:
"Not a lot of Dryads left around the place, are there? What I described is the primordial form of the forest, undisturbed by the encroachment of fleshy beings. There are no forests I know of that still retain that status. Here in Laurelorn, the Grey Lords colonized and tamed the Dreaming Wood, binding some spirits and forming accords with others, and in modern times the distinction between Faniour Elf and Laurelorn Dryad has practically disappeared. As for other forests - well, I can only guess based on what I have heard from the outside world, but none have remained unchanged by the passage of years. The Drakwald has fallen entirely to the Beastmen, the Bogathingaz and Dukhlys to Goblins. The Schattenwald has been twisted by an eternal war against the beings that live in its depths, and many say it is as fallen as the Drakwald. The Reikwald lies dormant, the magic that once sustained it disappeared. The Grossewald has adapted to the humans that live within it, and many spirits seem to have found niches within your pantheon. The Forêt de Châlons belongs to a local Goddess, and the Forêt de Arden is a war between man and beast and Orc in the absence of the Beastman Daemon that once ruled it.
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fictionfan said:
The Eojir know as much about the waystone project as well do. If they want to hurry up tributaries creation in their forrest they should be very able to do so without us needing to hold their hand.
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The same applies for Kislev, though. The only difference I am making is that Laurelorn is a formal partner, while Kislev's help has been bought and formally we are only receiving the aid of the Ice Court (because Niezdwenka answers to fucking no one I guess).

My argument is political in nature. Boney already mentioned that delivering support outside before we start inside is bad for business. We should stick to it. Cover some of out bases before we go there. And I think we can start the following turn after this.
 
DragonParadox said:
Took Eike off the Lustrian paper where it would be marginal and onto the EIC diplomacy action
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Last turn someone made an argument that Eike can actually hands on participate in the research instead of having to sit and listen to older people talk about and write down this thing that they witnessed and she didn't. I liked that argument. It definitely makes just as much sense as having her on the Windfall papers, if not more.

Edit: Also, why Eike on Foundation?
 
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Mopman43 said:
We should probably include either Cadaeth or Tochter in the Kislev tributaries action- just because they're the ones that made the Dreaming Wood ritual.

Admittedly, it's less relevant in Kislev than it would be in the Empire, but even outside of the Shirokij which is better covered by the Halethan ritual, the Dukhlys Forest brushing up against the Worlds Edge Mountains is pretty sizable, I imagine it has a Dreaming Wood.

Probably not a very nice one.
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[ ] Plan Spreading Goodwill V3
-[ ] JOHANN: Hunt an apparition (Rider in Red)
--[ ] COIN: The Gambler
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[ ] EGRIMM: Write a paper (Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands)
-[ ] Waystone: Foundation (Elrisse, Tochter, Hatalath, Cadaeth, Sarvoi, Thorek)
-[ ] Waystone: Other Networks (Karaz Ankor) (Thorek)
-[ ] Tributary: International (Kislev) (Zlata, Niedzwenka, Aksel, Tochter)
-[ ] EIC: Negotiate and plan a magical route through the Schadensumpf to allow for easier trade with the Eonir without compromising their defenses
-[ ] KAU: Begin copying the full corpus of a Partner Library (Grand University of Nuln)
-[ ] SERENITY: Coins of Nehekhara's Fourth Dynasty 1/2
-[ ] Eike Actions: Windfall paper, Waystone Foundation, EIC Action
-[ ] Eike Study: Magic (Sounds, then Bless Weapon, then whatever lesser spell makes sense)

Changes
  1. I went with Tochter on the reasoning that the forest-spirit-elf would find it hard to travel that far and probably not enjoy the ambiance
  2. Serenity action is now the fourth Dynasty which is not optimal in terms of college favor, but is chronological
 
Is it even necessary for Mathilde to start building tributaries? We've already got the ones in Stirland going and if they go well then when Kislev gets those reports there'll be plenty of interest for them to start making them on their own initiative. Besides I'd rather finish working on Stirland before we go international.

Also if we're going to start the apparition chain it's probably a good idea to look at an arcane mark and see if there's going to be an effect when trying to bind one to Mathilde's soul. Maybe they have no effect on binding an apparition or maybe they provide an escape hatch that lets a red rider jump out an rampage at an inconvenient time. I have no idea either way but taking an Arcane Mark action will presumably help clarify that.
 
Tomcost said:
The same applies for Kislev, though. The only difference I am making is that Laurelorn is a formal partner, while Kislev's help has been bought and formally we are only receiving the aid of the Ice Court (because Niezdwenka answers to fucking no one I guess).

My argument is political in nature. Boney already mentioned that delivering support outside before we start inside is bad for business. We should stick to it. Cover some of out bases before we go there. And I think we can start the following turn after this.
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It doesn't apply to Kislev because we aren't based there. Also they count as inside because we have a lot of witches from there on the project.
 
WorldSlayer said:
Is it even necessary for Mathilde to start building tributaries? We've already got the ones in Stirland going and if they go well then when Kislev gets those reports there'll be plenty of interest for them to start making them on their own initiative. Besides I'd rather finish working on Stirland before we go international.

Also if we're going to start the apparition chain it's probably a good idea to look at an arcane mark and see if there's going to be an effect when trying to bind one to Mathilde's soul. Maybe they have no effect on binding an apparition or maybe they provide an escape hatch that lets a red rider jump out an rampage at an inconvenient time. I have no idea either way but taking an Arcane Mark action will presumably help clarify that.
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The sooner started the sooner finished. And we might be having chaos storms in Kislev soon.
 
People have brought up wanting to get Eike and Egrimm to interact, and also wanting to give Eike Windsight practice...

Wouldn't having Eike tag along on Windherding enchanting with Egrimm be perfect for that?

EDIT: Oh, and on the note of the AV book: I really want to dictate it to Max when we get to it, because I want it to be as good as possible, and Max has significantly improved writing actions for us in the past.
 
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WorldSlayer said:
Is it even necessary for Mathilde to start building tributaries? We've already got the ones in Stirland going and if they go well then when Kislev gets those reports there'll be plenty of interest for them to start making them on their own initiative. Besides I'd rather finish working on Stirland before we go international.

Also if we're going to start the apparition chain it's probably a good idea to look at an arcane mark and see if there's going to be an effect when trying to bind one to Mathilde's soul. Maybe they have no effect on binding an apparition or maybe they provide an escape hatch that lets a red rider jump out an rampage at an inconvenient time. I have no idea either way but taking an Arcane Mark action will presumably help clarify that.
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  1. Interest from whom? Who do you imagine reads those reports baby ice witch Zlata makes? And as for Baba... Baba is here because she wants to be here, she does not write reports to the representatives of a state younger than she is.
  2. Given that gold mages take arcane marks to the point of full gilding, not to mention have a rate of natural marks analogous to every other college I think we are fine on marks
 
LadyLynn said:
People have brought up wanting to get Eike and Egrimm to interact, and also wanting to give Eike Windsight practice...

Wouldn't having Eike tag along on Windherding enchanting with Egrimm be perfect for that?
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Eike does not know an enchanter's athame from a desert spoon, I think the action has far greater chances of going over her head than either the rubbings or the windfall. She has interacted with ruins and winds before, not so much with advanced enchanting. I say let them get used to each other in an environment where she is not entirely clueless.
 
fictionfan said:
It doesn't apply to Kislev because we aren't based there. Also they count as inside because we have a lot of witches from there on the project.
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I am afraid that both those arguments contradict each other. Either they are an active participant, and thus don't need us to go there teach them (the witches are here after all), or they aren't, and thus we should focus first with active collaborators.

And I mean, I am totally in favor of helping Kislev, I just think that by priorities we should do Laurelorn first and then Kislev on the following turn. Ot os not that much difference in what gets done, this being long term stuff, but it is something that matters to the politics of the project.
 
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