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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Switching to the compromise vote, from the Red Rider side.

I mostly see the mapping action as a filler (and not even very good filler, as it only occupies Johann rather than any of the other players who voters seem worried about getting antsy), and would rather see progress somewhere else. Finishing swords is fine for that:

[X] Plan Codifying and Swords
 
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Glau said:
This begs the question of why we have the action to share internationally with them available to us then, if taking it would be pure waste.
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I imagine for the same reason we had to spend an AP reaching out to Caedeth instead of her joining for free. As in Caedeth wanted to join, she's the one who invited Mathilde over after all, but social, cultural and political factors meant it would be much faster if Mathilde cut through the chase to ask her into the project

Mathilde choosing to get the Tributaries rolled out ASAP means she is proactively getting the ball rolling vs sitting back and letting things happen, which will be at their own rate which could be slower than she or the thread wants.
 
Wodger said:
Is there a chance of Bretonnia joining the project after we get the first tributaries started and without doing the orc action?
I feel like they hinted at being more interested if we show results.
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It really depends if tributaries are enough as a result. Their neat but their not the backbone of the network.
 
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Glau said:
Well, I seem to have misread that the entire time, I guess because I thought we'd roll out tributaries where they are useful first. Not any happier with it, given Kislev is right there.
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Gonna be honest, jumping from stirland is a bad choice because it has no Waystones to, to responding to the news that it does have waystones with "Oh I thought we'd use tributaries where they're actually useful"

Is kind of odd to me.

Kislev has waystones, does that mean tributaries aren't useful for them?

Really it just seems like you've made up your mind on wanting Kislev and are looking for literally any possible reason to go against Stirland.

Both of those arguments you made could quite literally be made for anywhere on the planet, they either have waystones in which case, it's "not useful" or they don't which means we'll be wanting to put new ones there so why make lesser tributary.

I'm fine with either option in the end but these kind of arguments don't seem helpful.
 
Wodger said:
Is there a chance of Bretonnia joining the project after we get the first tributaries started and without doing the orc action?
I feel like they hinted at being more interested if we show results.
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Their words were 'perhaps we might be tempted'. That's not the sort of wording that implies you should come back to them the second you have anything at all.
 
Tomcost said:
Gentlemen, how would you all think about a Swording compromise which had the Foundation instead of River Leylines?
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Sure, I'd approval vote it. You'd still need a lot of people to also do so, and I'm not sure there's enough interest in the difference. But it doesn't cost much to create a new plan, and it's definitly possible that it would catch up, since swords started up a good way behind.
 
Also tributaries are useful, but I get the impression it's in a more general "passive Dhar levels will decrease between 5-10% over the next decade" sort of thing that's going to be very gradual and not very noticible. The mechanics of tributaries as I understand is incredibly passive osmosis-esque gradual filtering. Unfortunately I think a full working Waystone would be needed to see anything drastic since that's what can actively wrangle the winds.

They are still incredibly necessary, especially given our great and comparatively accessible rituals for them, and I do want a concrete deliverable out there. However, I don't think they're the sort of immediately drastic gamechanger where 6 months, or even a few years, will make a drastic difference.
 
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[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition. (ft. Red Riders)

Not the biggest fan of this plan, but I find myself really disliking how little Eike is doing in Codifying and swords.
 
Ugh, strategic voting...

[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition

Not throwing away my cabal membership card just yet. Here's another alternative.

[] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition, perfected
-[] Waystone: Leyline Prototype (River) (Sarvoi, Cadaeth, Baba Niedzwenka, Elrisse, Aksel, Tochter)
-[] EGRIMM: Write a paper: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
-[] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath, Sarvoi)
-[] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max, Cadaeth, Tochter)
-[] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
--[] The Gambler
-[] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (as many Nuln libraries as we can get in exchange for using the KaK metalsmithing guild boon to help rebuild Nuln's foundries)
-[] SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
-[] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windfall paper, Branulhune training, EIC action
-[] Eike Study: Petty Magics
-[] Contains Overwork
 
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A_Somebody said:
Also tributaries are useful, but I get the impression it's in a more general "passive Dhar levels will decrease between 5-10% over the next decade" sort of thing that's going to be very gradual and not very noticible. The mechanics of tributaries as I understand is incredibly passive osmosis-esque gradual filtering. Unfortunately I think a full working Waystone would be needed to see anything drastic since that's what can actively wrangle the winds.

They are still incredibly necessary, especially given our great and comparatively accessible rituals for them, and I do want a concrete deliverable out there. However, I don't think they're the sort of immediately drastic gamechanger where 6 months, or even a few years, will make a drastic difference.
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I think we'll see it spread on its own much faster after everyone has the example of Stirland's tributaries to point to.
 
Romv said:
[X] Plan Lore and Metal, Windfall Edition, perfected
-[X] Waystone: Capstone (Hatalath, Thorek, Elrisse, Egrimm, Max, Johann)
-[X] Waystone: Leyline Prototype (River) (Sarvoi, Cadaeth, Baba Niedzwenka, Elrisse, Aksel, Tochter)
-[X] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[X] EGRIMM: Write a paper: Observations on the Windfall north of the Dark Lands
-[X] Tributary: Water Spirit (Stirland) (Niedzwenka, Zlata, Max, Cadaeth, Tochter)
-[X] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
--[X] The Gambler
-[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[X] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[X] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (as many Nuln libraries as we can get in exchange for using the KaK metalsmithing guild boon to help rebuild Nuln's foundries)
-[X] SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
-[X] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windfall paper, Branulhune training, EIC action
-[X] Eike Study: Petty Magics
-[X] Contains Overwork
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This is an illegal plan; or, rather, it's legal, but it uses double overwork (you have two identical Waystone Capstone lines) because the action you added in isn't a WEB-MAT action, so it doesn't come for "free".
 
My thought process on it is:

  • All else being equal, there's a mild preference for the first fruits to go to the Empire rather than a foreign polity
  • Kislev has greater need of immediate improvement
  • The tributaries in and of themselves are not immediately impactful
  • They are however useful in the long term, and we want to get them rolling out
  • Nobody is going to volunteer to be the first to do that, so the Project will have to push at least once
  • It may as well go where we already have some political swing, so the rollout's teething problems are limited to teaching rather than having to deal with an obstreperous local nobility on top.
So we roll out the tributaries in Stirland first, where we have multiple "ins" on the ground and where even the mild improvement of tributaries will make a difference. Then when we get something bigger, that can go to Kislev immediately, as we've already appeased the "Empire First" bloc with something quick and easy.
 
picklepikkl said:
This is an illegal plan; or, rather, it's legal, but it uses double overwork (you have two identical Waystone Capstone lines) because the action you added in isn't a WEB-MAT action, so it doesn't come for "free".
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Fixed, sorry Lustria fans.
Edit: forgot about WEB-MAT, I'll fix it when I'm not using my phone.
 
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Another argument against river leylines is that, if Ulthuan sees that halfway through the proyect we are developing means to build waystone outside their network, they are more likely to put a wrench in our efforts than if we complete the other steps and they see us making waystones in good faith
 
Tomcost said:
Another argument against river leylines is that, if Ulthuan sees that halfway through the proyect we are developing means to build waystone outside their network, they are more likely to put a wrench in our efforts than if we complete the other steps and they see us making waystones in good faith
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That is nonsensical argument since from what I remember Boney has said that only way Ulthan can stop this at this point is either war or sending Teclis back to Empire for a couple of decades to make nice.

And Ulthan doesn't want a war.
 
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Tomcost said:
Another argument against river leylines is that, if Ulthuan sees that halfway through the proyect we are developing means to build waystone outside their network, they are more likely to put a wrench in our efforts than if we complete the other steps and they see us making waystones in good faith
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Nah. The magic still ends up with them. And the alternative is giving away the control codes, which if they cared about rivers so much, would be even worse as a no go.
Also, the Ice Witches already have their own little network section. That horse has well and truly left the stable.
 
Tasoli said:
That is nonsensical argument since from what I remember Boney has said that only way Ulthan can stop this at this point is either war or sending Teclis back to Empire for a couple of decades to make nice.

And Ulthan doesn't want a war.
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It'd be hilarious if this all ends with us getting Teclis-sensei to come back to the colleges.
 
NavySeel said:
Really it just seems like you've made up your mind on wanting Kislev and are looking for literally any possible reason to go against Stirland.
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As in, I see Kislev as clearly superior in terms of need, existing infrastructure to link into, and support we'll get from the authorities?

Yes.

The only reason anyone seems to have for not doing Kislev is that there's unspecified people in the empire who might get their feathers ruffled, which is really not something we've ever really cared about before when it comes to practical matters.
 
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