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NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

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[X] Wizard-Owl
[X] If he hit you... then you want to hit him back. (Spar with Gabriel)
[X] Plan Family And Shopping
 
Sara said:
I think the compel will be about as manageable as bloodlust is, which we've dealt with pretty well, and possibly not even that bad given it's resistable and controlling herself is one of Halla better traits.
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I think this is one of the major sources of disagreement. Let's see what was actually said about each thing, shall we?

Here's bloodlust.
Imperial Fister said:
-Gain Flaw: Bloodlust - You will struggle to stay focused on tasks if your Bloodlust has not been sated. Required if taking Boon: Wanderlust.
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Here's the one from learning-owl.
Imperial Fister said:
-Flaw: One-Eye's Obsession - You will have great difficulty resisting the call of knowledge, even at great detriment to yourself and others.
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Honestly, the second sounds a lot worse than the first. The bloodlust is a "If you don't do this from time to time, you're going to get antsy, and it'll start costing you." That's... basically our experience with it. The learning-owl disad is "you will have great difficulty resisting" and "even at great detriment". I feel like... well, if you look at "you will have great difficulty" and you think "that'll totally be manageable" then maybe you're not reading it right?
 
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[X] Shield-Owl

No one expects an Owl to hold a shield
Wise Owl? Sure, that's a stereotype even
Magic Owl? Wouldn't be the first magic bird in Norse Myth
But a shield? Why on earth does an owl have a shield? And how is it able to fly?
Shield owl is just the most out there for me, and thus has my support.
 
Alectai said:
I don't think it's that bad, because otherwise it'd be a sucker option. Mild near-sightedness in exchange for access to magic is a great bargain, and I'm a bit annoyed that it's falling behind in favor of using our Fylgja as an offtank (Which isn't great beceause it's never going to have as much Endurance as we will), or a random gacha roll every turn at the cost of a gigantic compel that will get us into trouble.

Shield-Owl isn't bad, I just think it's not a great option and doesn't make best use of the opportunity. Again, that level of nearsightedness isn't going to seriously harm day to day life or ordinary battles, only things where extreme ranges are in play.
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The point of Shield-Owl is not for it to be an off-tank (or, at least, that's not why we're taking it). It's to make it survivable enough we can use it as a pocket caster for things we otherwise might not have a hand free to cast, or things where being able to rain them from above is useful on. Like, right now we realistically can't use the fylgja like that without huge and unacceptable risks...unless we do indeed go Shield-Owl, in which case we can.

Sara said:
And the short run needs thinking about, because besides our fated encounter with Reinarr, 16th birthday boss fight, and raid trials to worry about we still have reason to believe their are bandits in the area and have a number of othr antagonist residents in our neighborhood.
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I don't think the Swordfury incident is necessarily a short term issue. The fate was that we would meet again and one of us wouldn't walk away, not that it would be soon. But yes, the short term is very relevant here...on the other hand, in the short term we have no ranged skills or weapons anyway, and no real time to develop them, so we're gonna suck at range almost no matter what (Shield-Owl helps with this slightly if we give it Inertia-Arresting-Throw).

I'm honestly more worried about it being passed down to any kids. Of course, that's an even bigger worry for the curiosity issue with Learning-Owl. I continue to be unconcerned with the Shield-Owl drawback even if we pass it on.
 
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DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I'm honestly more worried about it being passed down to any kids. Of course, that's an even bigger worry for the curiosity issue with Learning-Owl. I continue to be unconcerned with the Shield-Owl drawback even if we pass it on.
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Yeah.. it is somewhat bothersome that (as far as I can tell) we're getting an inheritable disad attached to a non-inheritable advantage, and this is for something that's supposed to be an upgrade? Still, it is what it is.
 
Sirrocco said:
Yeah.. it is somewhat bothersome that (as far as I can tell) we're getting an inheritable disad attached to a non-inheritable advantage, and this is for something that's supposed to be an upgrade? Still, it is what it is.
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I mean, I wouldn't assume the advantage doesn't also get passed down in some form. Probably not all of them one for one, but I'll bet if the kid gets the disadvantage they get at least some version of the advantage to go with it.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I don't think the Swordfury incident is necessarily a short term issue. The fate was that we would meet again and one of us wouldn't walk away, not that it would be soon. But yes, the short term is very relevant here...on the other hand, in the short term we have no ranged skills or weapons anyway, and no real time to develop them, so we're gonna suck at range almost no matter what (Shield-Owl helps with this slightly if we give it ).
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This isn't so bad, because one of the main ways melee fighters dealt with archers in this time period was turning ranged combat into melee combat. The point of shortsightedness being disadvantage isn't because it makes us a poor archer, it's that it makes protecting ourselvs from archers while we get into poisition to smack them down or survive their attention while someone else does it for us harder because we have to choose between A) being much worse at noticing their incoming attacks, b) sending out a unprotected weakpoint that people culturally know is usually a easier thing to kill us by shooting at then our body or c) leave our actual body unshielded which introduces problems beyond dealing with javelins and slings and arrows and Hugreida.
 
Sara said:
This isn't so bad, because one of the main ways melee fighters dealt with archers in this time period was turning ranged combat into melee combat. The point of shortsightedness being disadvantage isn't because it makes us a poor archer, it's that it makes protecting ourselvs from archers while we get into poisition to smack them down or survive their attention while someone else does it for us harder because we have to choose between A) being much worse at noticing their incoming attacks, b) sending out a unprotected weakpoint that people culturally know is usually a easier thing to kill us by shooting at then our body or c) leave our actual body unshielded which introduces problems beyond dealing with javelins and slings and arrows and Hugreida.
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Eh. I'm not sure this degree of nearsightedness actually hinders any of that. 20/50 to 20/80 is what our QM said and that's...just actually not that bad? It definitely sucks for noticing ambushes or spotting ships at long distances at similar things but if an enemy is close enough that closing with them is viable, they're close enough we can see them well enough to do any of the stuff you're talking about. Like, at 20/80, we need to be within, what, 200 feet at most in order to close with them...seeing them as well as if they were 800 feet away is definitely worse, but not in a way that makes this kind of thing much more difficult.
 
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Learning Owl is strong but not quite strong enough for its Flaw. Travelling Owl is cool but we seem a bit stuck. Shield Owl is really good, and the Flaw is basically a nonFlaw. Wizard Owl is very good but has a concerning flaw. Trick Owl is way too much a build change.

[X] Wizard-Owl
[X] Shield-Owl
[X] If he hit you... then you want to hit him back. (Spar with Gabriel)

Undecided between Shield and Wizard. Shield does feel a little short term focused compared to Wizard, but I am not sure if we can actually get to the Long Term with how dangerous the Short Term seems to be at the moment. I think Learning Owl is too dangerous give our environment though.
 
Sirrocco said:
Yeah.. it is somewhat bothersome that (as far as I can tell) we're getting an inheritable disad attached to a non-inheritable advantage, and this is for something that's supposed to be an upgrade? Still, it is what it is.
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DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I mean, I wouldn't assume the advantage doesn't also get passed down in some form. Probably not all of them one for one, but I'll bet if the kid gets the disadvantage they get at least some version of the advantage to go with it.
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I mean, I think there's good odds the spells will stay in the family. It sounds like we might be getting actual scrolls and such, those can be read by descendants, barring accidents. Meanwhile, the nearsightedness is heritable but it sounds like it's chance based.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Eh. I'm not sure this degree of nearsightedness actually hinders any of that. 20/50 to 20/80 is what our QM said and that's...just actually not that bad? It definitely sucks for noticing ambushes or spotting ships at long distances at similar things but if an enemy is close enough that closing with them is viable, they're close enough we can see them well enough to do any of the stuff you're talking about. Like, at 20/80, we need to be within, what, 200 feet at most in order to close with them...seeing them as well as if they were 800 feet away is definitely worse, but not in a way that makes this kind of thing much more difficult.
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I think it's likely that it introduces dices penalties to dealing with ranged combat, because in circumstances like this it's much easier to just have our Flyja out to scout things out, as other people have said.

It just doesn't like much of a flaw compared to the rest, unless wizard owl is much worse a benefit then people seem to think it is, if it only applies a penaly in the exact circumstances where the way to overcome that penalty is least problematic to employ.

Maybe I'm overthinking things and it's supposed to be that trivial to work around.
 
One thing about battle magic - is that even a thing? I got the impression seidr was more about healing, necromancy, curses, divination and so on. So I'm not *that* concerned about nearsightedness interfering with our ability to aim lightning bolts and so on.
 
Sara said:
I think it's likely that it introduces dices penalties to dealing with ranged combat, because in circumstances like this it's much easier to just have our Flyja out to scout things out, as other people have said.

It just doesn't like much of a flaw compared to the rest, unless wizard owl is much worse a benefit then people seem to think it is, if it only applies a penaly in the exact circumstances where the way to overcome that penalty is least problematic to employ.

Maybe I'm overthinking things and it's supposed to be that trivial to work around.
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Dice penalties aren't really how this system works, nor would they be super relevant in combat, honestly. Like, losing 2-3 dice from our combat pool is a flaw that could exist, but not a particularly debilitating one. That's the same penalty we'd have just from losing our backup weapon.

It's definitely one of the weakest flaws and one of the weakest benefits as well, because the benefit is literally just giving us access to things to spend our resources purchasing, not helping us purchase them. The rest are all absolute advantages in some way...all Wizard gives is access. Access is cool, but not anywhere close to on par with some of the other benefits, so the flaw is likewise lesser.

KreenWarrior said:
One thing about battle magic - is that even a thing? I got the impression seidr was more about healing, necromancy, curses, divination and so on. So I'm not *that* concerned about nearsightedness interfering with our ability to aim lightning bolts and so on.
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Battle hugareida are definitely a thing and we have a built in tendency to get Fire hugareida, so lightning bolts are unlikely but the smart money says firebolts and fireballs will be in our wheelhouse eventually.
 
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All this talk about being nearsighted, when we are in xianxia land....
Imperial Fister said:
Fixing your eyesight could be done via shapeshifting, though it would still be passable to your children.
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And QM even spelled it out for us!
Im pretty sure there are perception tricks as well, like seeing in the dark or seeing farther... Hell, there is, or at least was, one guy whose Kenning was Farsight.
Its static and easy to handle.

The thirst for knowledge though? i wouldn't mind if it was only us, but it say we dont care if others get hurt for it either.
That's just a step too far for me on learning owl.
Not that worried about the witch though... even if her greed did got the better of her then...
kinda like the drawback for learning owl...

[X] Wizard-Owl
[X] If he hit you... then you want to hit him back. (Spar with Gabriel)
 
TheCount said:
All this talk about being nearsighted, when we are in xianxia land....

And QM even spelled it out for us!
Im pretty sure there are perception tricks as well, like seeing in the dark or seeing farther... Hell, there is, or at least was, one guy whose Kenning was Farsight.
Its static and easy to handle.
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In the long run this is absolutely true. But the easy internal fix (Hamr 7) is currently 104 successes of training away. So definitely years of training barring real weirdness. The worries, such as they are, have more to do with surviving that long. Scouting tricks are a possibility, and a decent one, but would cost orthstirr to use, so still something of an issue.

Personally, I think it'll probably be fine. I was worried at first but after the degree of near-sightedness was clarified I stopped being super concerned but it is worth noting that the concerns are not that it's unfixable, just that it'll be a serious problem in the meantime.
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
I'm very down for learning just about any written language other than runes when we get the opportunity just so we can start working on codifying the Norse cultivation system without making things explode. Maybe figure out how they write things without that problem cropping up.
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Why not learn the runes to the point of not accidentally blowing shit up?
Imperial Fister said:
[ ] Learning-Owl
-Boon: Spirit of the Owl will change to Spirit of the Learning-Owl. It will keep old effects while granting new ones.
-Boon: Spirit of the Learning-Owl - Extra dice equal to the fylgja rank will be randomly added to training rolls.
-Flaw: One-Eye's Obsession - You will have great difficulty resisting the call of knowledge, even at great detriment to yourself and others.
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Is that analogue to Wanderlust and Bloodlust, that we get a curiosity we need to satiate or at some point Halla would try to sate her addiction without our input? (Or other way to put it: we can supress the disadvantage by learning regularily)
 
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