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NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)

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Alectai said:
So yeah, it's a headache, but it's not some insurmountable obstacle that will Ruin Things Forever. And it opens up our access to Magic, which is one of the things our build requires to really pop off given our Hugr specialty.
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Oh, absolutely. I don't think it's an unbearable downside (it's definitely not as bad as Learning-Owl), I'm just saying it's a real one for at least quite a while. If the vote comes down to Wizard and Learning, I'll probably switch mine to Wizard upon reflection, but I still think Shield-Owl if best, with the least down side and actually enabling our ability to cast spells from the fylgja (something we were just discussing).
 
DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Oh, absolutely. I don't think it's an unbearable downside (it's definitely not as bad as Learning-Owl), I'm just saying it's a real one for at least quite a while. If the vote comes down to Wizard and Learning, I'll probably switch mine to Wizard upon reflection, but I still think Shield-Owl if best, with the least down side and actually enabling our ability to cast spells from the fylgja (something we were just discussing).
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Shield-Owl's my second choice, but as I said, I think the value of getting reliable access to Magic is greater for our build than a blocker.
 
Alectai said:
Shield-Owl's my second choice, but as I said, I think the value of getting reliable access to Magic is greater for our build than a blocker.
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See, that is very much not shield-owl's primary use as far as I'm concerned. Indeed I'd prefer to literally never use it for that intentionally (the down side might kick in and make it do that occasionally). No, the advantage of Shield-Owl is that, in practice, it turns our Owl from having Endurance 4 to Endurance 12 or more (we could actually get to four shields and thus effective Endurance 20 and still have one capacity left for an offensive hugareida), which lets us not worry about it any more than we worry about, y'know, ourselves and start giving it offensive hugareida.

Which is potentially very useful indeed.
 
I don't get why Learning-Owl would be a bad choice.
Am I not considering something important?

Sure, it's somewhat lackluster compared to the others, but I think being curious about dangerous stuff is understandable and common in any Quest.
For instance, despite everything said, I would like to go after the Witch (later, obviously).
 
Eh, I don't think I'm convinced on Wizard Owl. The fact that it will pass on to our descendants, that we'll need to have our fylgja exposed and vulnerable just to be able to see people from a distance, and not to mention that it would synergise poorly with ranged spells (at least until we get shapeshifting) makes me hesitant to pick it. I'd rather get Shield Owl or Learning Owl.

[X] Shield-Owl
[X] If he hit you... then you want to hit him back. (Spar with Gabriel)
 
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[X] Learning Owl
[X] If he hit you... then you want to hit him back. (Spar with Gabriel)
[X] Plan Family And Shopping
 
Constenanto said:
Eh, I don't think I'm convinced on Wizard Owl. The fact that it will pass on to our descendants, that we'll need to have our fylgja exposed and vulnerable just to be able to see people from a distance, and not to mention that it would synergise poorly with ranged spells (at least until we get shapeshifting) makes me hesitant to pick it. I'd rather get Shield Owl or Learning Owl.

[X] Learning Owl
[X] Shield-Owl
[X] If he hit you... then you want to hit him back. (Spar with Gabriel)
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Speaking as someone who's short-sighted, you are massively exaggerating how bad it is. It's an inability to make out details at a distance, not "Everything beyond a certain range is invisible to you."

I myself can still make out someone from the other side of a soccer pitch. Not specifically who it is, but that someone is there. And I'm as close as you can get to being legally blind without my glasses as you can get.

Learning Owl meanwhile is a compulsion to poke Interesting Things, no matter how dangerous it is. It explicitly draws a comparison to Odin, who has a history of creating all of his own problems because he has no ability to let a secret lie.
 
Alectai said:
Speaking as someone who's short-sighted, you are massively exaggerating how bad it is. It's an inability to make out details at a distance, not "Everything beyond a certain range is invisible to you."

I myself can still make out someone from the other side of a soccer pitch. Not specifically who it is, but that someone is there. And I'm as close as you can get to being legally blind without my glasses as you can get.
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If it wasn't bad in any meaningful way, then I don't see why it'd be a flaw, considering it has to contend with us literally sacrificing ourselves whenever we fail an intercept, forcing us to use only tricks in combats due to us losing all competency with basic techniques, etc.

I'd be very surprised if all we got was mild short-sightedness in exchange for literally getting free magic. Not to mention that I just think that the learning and shield options are better.
 
Constenanto said:
If it wasn't bad in any meaningful way, then I don't see why it'd be a flaw, considering it has to contend with us literally sacrificing ourselves whenever we fail an intercept, forcing us to use only tricks in combats due to us losing all competency with basic techniques, etc.

I'd be very surprised if all we got was mild short-sightedness in exchange for literally getting free magic. Not to mention that I just think that the learning and shield options are better.
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Yes, it's a headache.

What it is not is some debilitating issue that cripples us in our areas of focus. It really, really isn't something that would be a serious issue in day to day life or even most fights. Where it is a Liability is if we're being bombarded by eagle eyed archers who are waiting for us to bring our Owl out before hitting it with a billion arrows. It's a a constant low level nuisance, while other options are more rare but more devastating when they proc.

I will take a predictable, nuisance level flaw over one that could potentially divert our life if it activates. Like if we have to jump into a massively stacked alpha strike relatively unprotected because we failed an intercept against it. Or if we unleash some Ancient Evil because we couldn't leave the mysterious tomb well enough alone.
 
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Well, it's not guaranteed that you get magic all the time. Nor if that magic will be of any use to you.

You could get Chinese magic, for example, which would be completely meaningless to you.

With those caveats, I think that myopia is a fair exchange
 
Franco Asuriano said:
I don't get why Learning-Owl would be a bad choice.
Am I not considering something important?

Sure, it's somewhat lackluster compared to the others, but I think being curious about dangerous stuff is understandable and common in any Quest.
For instance, despite everything said, I would like to go after the Witch (later, obviously).
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Compulsive curiosity tends to be pretty bad, IME. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if that drawback strongly encouraged us to try and learn from the witch, which is just a terrible idea for all sorts of reasons. We probably do return to her at some point either way...but not for magic lessons we don't.

The upside also isn't as good as it looks. 4 random training dice aren't nothing, but them being random means we can never actually count on them, and thus a lot of the successes they roll will wind up effectively wasted in skills we never actually intended to get to high ratings but needed the basics of and similar things.

Constenanto said:
If it wasn't bad in any meaningful way, then I don't see why it'd be a flaw, considering it has to contend with us literally sacrificing ourselves whenever we fail an intercept, forcing us to use only tricks in combats due to us losing all competency with basic techniques, etc.

I'd be very surprised if all we got was mild short-sightedness in exchange for literally getting free magic. Not to mention that I just think that the learning and shield options are better.
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I mean, the downsides aren't all equal because the upsides aren't all equal. Wizard probably has the weakest upside, honestly, as it just provides us new things to learn with absolutely no benefits to actually doing so. It arguably just makes AP hell worse rather than being a major upside. It having the least bad downside is thus pretty reasonable.

Compare Trick-Owl, which effectively gives free Mastery on up to 4 tricks...but at ridiculous costs.
 
Imperial Fister said:
Well, it's not guaranteed that you get magic all the time. Nor if that magic will be of any use to you.

You could get Chinese magic, for example, which would be completely meaningless to you.

With those caveats, I think that myopia is a fair exchange
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Huh, there's absolutely no way to adapt things into your own paradigm?
 
Having short sightedness that could impact us with you know actual ambushes and ordinary life would suck cause you can't see as well. Plus where would glasses be available to a peasant essentially. Plus this would fuck over future kids as well.

Mind you I'm saying this as someone who does wear glasses that it would absolutely suck as an easy weakpoint for combat.
 
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Alectai said:
Learning Owl meanwhile is a compulsion to poke Interesting Things, no matter how dangerous it is. It explicitly draws a comparison to Odin, who has a history of creating all of his own problems because he has no ability to let a secret lie.
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And that's a huge reason why I want to take it. Bloodlust has just as much history fucking people over in norse sagas, but it also one of the most interesting bits of Halla's character. My favorite quest, and in fictional in general, protagionists are flawed people who do a lot to create their own problems.

As long as it's something that we can work around and not a instant death loop the moment we pick it, and I don't see why Imperial Fister would create a trait this early that dooms us if we take it, I think it'll be fun.

I vastly prefer downsides that will help create fun plotlines and give our PC intresting flaws over something as easily managed as physical myopia, which the thread will likely hyperfocus on trying to overcome anyway.
 
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Lunoros said:
Having short sightedness that could impact us with you know actual ambushes and ordinary life would suck cause you can't see as well. Plus where would glasses be available to a peasant essentially. Plus this would fuck over future kids as well.
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Again, seriously doubting that we're going to be a poor peasant for very long given Halla's talents.
 
Alectai said:
Huh, there's absolutely no way to adapt things into your own paradigm?
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I be we could...but we'd need to learn Chinese first and research their cultivation system to boot. That's...probably not logistically viable.

Lunoros said:
Having short sightedness that could impact us with you know actual ambushes and ordinary life would suck cause you can't see as well. Plus where would glasses be available to a peasant essentially. Plus this would fuck over future kids as well.
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Eh. Being able to see a few dozen feet clearly is fine for daily life. The issue with ambushes is real, but partially helped by the Fylgja. It is true we aren't getting glasses any time soon, but this is overstating things quite a bit. Like I said previously, the main down side is our fylgja needing to be out a lot more (which is a real down side, mind you).
 
Alectai said:
Yes, it's a headache.

What it is not is some debilitating issue that cripples us in our areas of focus. It really, really isn't something that would be a serious issue in day to day life or even most fights. Where it is a Headache is if we're being bombarded by eagle eyed archers who are waiting for us to bring our Owl out before hitting it with a billion arrows. It's a a constant low level nuisance, while other options are more rare but more devastating when they proc.
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...I wouldn't call being forced to use tricks forever as a 'rare occurrence'. It'd literally change our combat style permanently. Though I admit that it wouldn't be a problem in every day life - however this also applies to Shield Owl and Trick Owl - I still don't see why the Wizard Owl option would have a much more milder downside in return for what seems to be the best boon. Not to mention that I'm still not sold on having to rely on our fylgja for sight.

@Imperial Fister how bad would Halla's eyesight be if short-sightedness was chosen?

Edit: I just saw what Imperial said about the magic gaining. Not as good as I thought it'd be. Though admittedly that makes me want to pick Wizard Owl less... however, at the same time, that probably means that it is just mild short-sightedness. Which isn't the worst, considering I'm shortsighted myself.
 
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Constenanto said:
...I wouldn't call being forced to use tricks forever as a 'rare occurrence'. It'd literally change our combat style permanently. Though I admit that it wouldn't be a problem in every day life - however this also applies to Shield Owl and Trick Owl - I still don't see why the Wizard Owl option would have a much more milder downside in return for what seems to be the best boon. Not to mention that I'm still not sold on having to rely on our fylgja for sight.

@Imperial Fister how bad would Halla's eyesight be if short-sightedness was chosen?
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We're forced to use Tricks Forever, but we also get free Masteries which make Tricks basically free. What it means is that we become a gimmick fighter who's garbage if we don't have any Orthstirr to actively spend.

And again, you're basically treating short-sightedness as straight up blindness. As someone who is very shortsighted, I have the experience to call you full of shit. I got by for years without glasses when I was young, and it was only a problem in that it made school hard because I couldn't easily make out the whiteboard, that's all.
 
Alectai said:
And again, you're basically treating short-sightedness as straight up blindness. As someone who is very shortsighted, I have the experience to call you full of shit
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I'm not? I'm just not assuming that it'd be your every day short-sightedness. I'm literally shortsighted myself. Admittedly I don't really use my glasses as, like you've said, short-sightedness isn't that bad, but I assumed this would be worse.
 
[X] Wizard-Owl
"Spending long nights studying magic" is my "likes long walks on the beach".
Plus, solving our eyesight problem with Hamr shapeshifting sounds rad.
Dibs on "our eyes look like an owl's".
 
Alectai said:
And again, you're basically treating short-sightedness as straight up blindness. As someone who is very shortsighted, I have the experience to call you full of shit
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Hey man, maybe calm down a little, this is a bit much?


DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Like I said previously, the main down side is our fylgja needing to be out a lot more (which is a real down side, mind you).
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Yeah, that's probably the biggest thing. We've been constantly reminded that bringing it out is a big weakness to the user most of the time, to the point Steinarr tried to keep Halla from awakening hers because he assumed it be a liability.

Our current best means to protect it involves investing a hugreida trick that we are instead hoping to use ourselves to compensate for lacking a shield while wielding our new main weapon.
 
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