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Personally, I feel we're jumping too easily to the idea that you can make liminal realms 'portable' when we don't actually know if that's a thing. Same with the talk the other day of putting a liminal realm in our soul. I'm not sure I want to get my hopes up for something cool that might end up having only existed in our minds.

Let's just focus on making a liminal space safe for now and then later obsess over incredibly time-consuming ways of carrying a lot of loot all the time.
 
Having had time to think on the offer I can see the upsides to becoming Everchosen. If Mathilde is Everchosen then no-one else can take the position and only two of the several Everchosen attacked the Empire. Mathilde could become the Van Hal of Everchosen, a doomed weapon slowly losing her mind but one that destroys a greater threat.

We can cripple at least one of the Chaos Dwarves, the Druuchii, Ulthuan or Marianburg before going down ourselves, to the benefit of the Empire, while sparing the Empire from another Great War. It's just the logical course of action.

Of course I'm sure I'm not being influenced by Daemons, why are you waving your staff around Patriarch?
 
One way to make a liminal realm portable could be to put it in the soul of a small portable living thing.
Like, if a forest can have a liminal realm, can a potted plant have a (much smaller) one?

Obviously thus we need to make houseplants of holding. Or maybe desk cacti of holding. With all the crazy stuff Warhammer wizards wear, nobody will look twice at us carrying a little potted plant around all the time.
 
Personally, I'm not really feeling the urge to figure out liminal realm security for the AV book. It doesn't interest me as much, because right now we don't seem to have any ideas for tangible use cases rather than just "it seems like it might be relevant". And it doesn't seem to me like there might be any surprises there that we want to figure out.
For one, using liminal realms as tributaries was floated as a strong option- that's what the Dreaming Woods are.

So there is a very immediate and relevant usecase. Say we could, for example, build one to bridge two nodes of the network whose connecting tributary has been disabled. That'd be huge.
 
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And that's what makes it truly difficult, that it takes weeks of constant pressure to transform a strand into a stone.
spells and environments and apparatus that can somewhat slow the unravelling
After enough time has passed for the Vitae in the containment chamber to have formed a sphere from the semi-spherical repellent field that suspends it
Dhar, but you've yet to test how it reacts to Runecraft, and the most basic test is how it reacts to the closest thing the Dwarves have to magic-manipulating Runes: those that repel it.
Could a tweaked (fully spherical) version of Thorek's recharger, placed in a mono-wind environment, function as a mostly automated powerstone creator?

I'm thinking the aids mentioned that already exist are very similar, but with another wind instead of runes. The Rune of Valaya has a stronger repellent effect, I assume.

Could save us a bunch of CF if it worked, and if we can bribe him or another to do it.
 
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Speaking of AV, I wonder if it could have any interesting interaction with the Shyish-kebobs we found (and then turned in) way way back at the very start?

Anybody feel like using a Social Action to check if the Amethyst College has reverse-engineered the Enchantments on them? Because that Enchantment was all about sucking in and capturing the Winds of magic... and somehow twisting it on itself and into a lattice. Almost like a proto-powerstone or something. Mathilde was so young back when she was researching that stuff she probably hadn't known how Powerstones were made (by compressing a thread of magic) or the possible application or implication of that.
In the peaceful quiet of your excavated spare room, illuminated by a softly glowing ball of Ulgu, you peer closely at the sword. The Shyish is unmistakable, densely twisted in on itself in a spiralling lattice, and as far as you can tell untainted by Dhar. You frown and look closer, not sure what it is you're seeing.

Magic, you know, is fundamentally about taking the unreality of the Winds and forcing them into reality, softening the fundamentals of what is and twisting them according to the will of the caster and the nature of the Wind in question. If you push Aqshy into reality, fire can appear from nothing, because the Aqshy temporarily and locally changes reality so that fire can come from nowhere. But where spellcasting does so for mere seconds, enchanting does so indefinitely. In reality fire needs fuel, but a magically burning sword does not, because the sword is no longer entirely real and therefore no longer beholden to that aspect of reality.

But just as the sword becomes partly unreal, the Winds become partly real. An enchanter isn't just bringing the Winds into reality, they're changing the nature of the Winds themselves.
(Also, given our newfound discoveries about the Winds of Magic somehow enforcing reality if sent into the Aethyr... who knows what's up with some of the above quote. Where it talks about Aqshy manifesting and resulting in fire. Maybe the reason Aqshy creates fire is because Aqshy is drawn from The Elemental Plane Of Fire Back On The Old Ones' Home Planet or something, which is the reason why Aqshy acts Aqshy-like even if you send it into the Aethyr rather than into reality.)
(Which is to say, maybe an enchanter isn't entirely changingthe nature of the Winds. Maybe they're just stabilizing them in some way. Or something.)
But that isn't what you're seeing here. The Winds are densely-packed but unchanged in their fundamental nature - but that can't be right, because the fundamental nature of Shyish isn't being stacked up in a sword like apples in a barrel. So you look for the barrel itself, peering closer and closer to try to make out what would be a tiny amount of magical framework around the overpowering glow of the trapped Shyish. It's like trying to see a candle in front of a bonfire, and your vision blurs as your eyes strain to make it out, and you wince at the sudden coldness as your nose touches the iron of the blade but you think you just caught a glimpse of it, right at the edge of the-
"Hmf. Found in Stirland, I take it? So Asoborn construction... oh, I know what this is. Bloody primitives. There was a belief back then that the Winds of Magic were the souls of the dead, so some twit wizards put enchantments on the weapons to absorb ambient winds thinking that would mean it would eat the souls of those killed with it. Nasty stuff, except wrong in literally every way." He closes the case with a click. "So instead you end up with the swords sucking in all sorts of magic and it ends up mixing and curdling and next thing you know it's Dhar. At that point the best thing to do is find a nice volcano to drop it into. You've got the exception to the rule, though - looks like it's been soaking up nothing but Shyish, so it hasn't been tainted." He shrugs. "Not that it's any good. The enchantment itself is lost and could be interesting to work with, but you can't reverse-engineer the enchantment without grounding the Shyish, and unless you do it right the first time, that takes the blade and thus the enchantment with it and you're left with nothing."
Also also, the Shyish was "densely twisted in on itself in a spiralling lattice." I wonder if that's of interesting utility here? I mean, a Wind being densely twisted in on itself. Without outright being turned into a Powerstone.

That Enchantment on the swords sucks in the Winds and twists them into a stable lattice. Reginald points out that it usually results in Dhar because it sucks in a bunch of different Winds and they clump together, but these swords just so happened to only be exposed to Shyish and so they only sucked up Shyish.

Aside from wondering if this might be a proto-Powerstone technique -- in Enchantment form at that -- and so could be useful to make Powerstones faster or more efficiently or whatnot... I wonder if it could be used for other things? That is, maybe it could turn Powerstones into Orbs of Sorcery, by feeding more of the Wind to the Powerstone.

Or maybe it could do something with Aethyric Vitae. If you were to get an empty sword and dip it into AV, would it result in something interesting? (Or would it just cause AV to destabilize into Winds. Which would be sad.)

As Reginald said, the old wizards thought the Winds of Magic were the souls of the dead. Maybe they actually had observed undifferentiated aether-stuff. Or maybe they had observed the Winds transforming. Or had observed spirits bleeding, or liminal realms, or people's souls. Or maybe some godly miracles or energies. (Or maybe this stuff is Qhaysh.) And tried to do something with what they saw; trying to take the Winds of Magic, and squish them back together into aether-stuff again, via an Enchantment. But all they managed to get was Dhar, because if you crudely force the Winds together, you don't get a rainbow or pure light, you get a muddy brown instead.

Still though. Could this be one of the ways you can create semi-sapient weapons? I mean, sticking AV into weapons somehow. Felix's sword had a hatred for Dragons and he thought it had some sort of... awareness or intelligence or something to it. He could have been totally wrong of course. But still.


How would people feel about a Social Action of "Visit the Amethyst College and check on the Shyish-kebobs and see if anybody managed to reverse-engineer them"?

What if the Shyish-kebob Enchantment might be very interesting for Orb of Sorcery creating (i.e. if you make the Enchantment and then use it to add more of the Wind to a Powerstone) or if you stuck AV rather than a Wind into the Enchantment. Or whatever other stuff.

Heck, even if it doesn't do anything for Orbs of Sorcery or AV, maybe it could still be interesting to see if it'd be useful for Ulgu enchantments or magic tricks. An Enchantment that piled up Ulgu, maybe it could be useful for something. Maybe an Ulgu grenade. Maybe a spell aid for Ulgu spellcasting. Maybe something else.

... Alternatively, actually, come to think of it...

... If this Enchantment captures and compresses the the Winds of Magic... could it be used like a battery to capture Winds of Magic when AV transforms?

i.e. Take AV. Induce transformation; the Winds go flying off in all the various directions.

Objects enchanted with the Kebob-enchantment are placed in a compass point around the AV. The objects capture the Winds of Magic that came from the AV.

Boom, you have mini batteries of Winds of Magic or something.
 
Does creating a Liminal Realm weaken the border between reality and the warp? I was under the impression that this point was only weak because of the crude manner in which Mathilde destroyed it. In fact, if my reading of the update is correct, shouldn't a liminal realm normally strengthen the border between reality and the warp by creating an insulating bubble of fresh reality between the two?
I agree with @StormySky on the nature of the barrier and how liminal realms should affect it, but even if I'm wrong I wouldn't expect a liminal realm to strengthen the barrier. Reality in and of itself is not actually dangerous to daemons after all, only the lack of magic means they can't manifest at will, and liminal realms are never going to have that lack by the nature of their existence.

For one, using liminal realms as tributaries was floated as a strong option- that's what the Dreaming Woods are.

So there is a very immediate and relevant usecase. Say we could, for example, build one to bridge two nodes of the network whose connecting tributary has been disabled. That'd be huge.
Well yes, but we don't actually know it'll work. It's a fantastic use if it's possible. But that's an if. Plus, a Dreaming Wood is alive in ways I suspect that the GC or AV created liminal realms are not. Dreaming Woods are compared to souls, rather than just being another realm.
 
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Dreaming Woods are still kind of confusing. It's a collective of trees' souls, and I can see how that results in dryads popping out or it having a gestalt consciousness that can direct Belthani-style tributaries. But how in the world can it also be a liminal realm people can live in? (I really wish we could get those Eonir Forest Spirit books to get a better understanding, but ughh, money)
 
Dreaming Woods are still kind of confusing. It's a collective of trees' souls, and I can see how that results in dryads popping out or it having a gestalt consciousness that can direct Belthani-style tributaries. But how in the world can it also be a liminal realm people can live in? (I really wish we could get those Eonir Forest Spirit books to get a better understanding, but ughh, money)
A better question mioght be to ask why Dreaming Woods are separate from the wider Aethyr. That is, why are they liminal realms and do not simply exist in the Aethyr as we think regular souls do.
 
[x] [BELEGAR] Nothing
[x] [BELEGAR] Greater Daemon
[x] [COLLEGE] Nothing
[x] [COLLEGE] Incoming Everchosen
 
Haven't voted so not much stake in the vote for me but if the college reaction to us telling them we met a greater demon tzentch is to try and censor our research I say go fuck them and publish them anyway, it matters little to me if were put under a little more shade as we have a perfect track record till now and I wouldn't mind having an adverserial relationship with some of the grey leadership because fuck them if this is how they respond to us miscasting and causing a usual fuck up of magic being summon demons.

Now if they try to fucking kill us just try and get away I guess. Maybe seek a caravan to Cathay or ship the the new world. Slightly more interested in Cathay since their's civilization their and I hear from lore the dragons their are always hiring mercenery mages like i believe one of the cokoo dragons favouring gold alchemist wind mages or whatever. would be preety cool to see al their wierd magic archetecture layout and way of life and culture and maybe founding our own magical circle group their or joining a magic order their I guess considering theirs mercenery mages their I think.

The new world is... hell, jungle hell and while slann and lizardmen are interesting... they are like alien in mentality, like dwarves x 10 and civilization their is meh.

Just run of to Belegar or the high king, request the finest bodyguards with runic equipment to escort us to the ships in Altdorf leaving for the old world or caravans heading to cathay or whatever other city their is and make it clear if we die via assassination's in the old world dwarf vs wizard bogaloo is happening and this time the grey college doesn't have the option to hide in their little liminal realm dimension because the drawves will hopefully rip it open with their runelords to avenge us but hopefully we don't get assassinated and hopefully they can protect us from grey order assassins till we leave the old world/influence of the grey college.

Of course that's the most extreme thing, if the grey order tries to censor our research then fuck them and try to find a wizard in our friend group to publish under their name because fuck the grey college if they try to censor our research for the first stain on our record for a common risk hazard a wizard might miscast and summon ??? demon.

It is hell and back to try and see the fruit of our research finally see an end and even harder to find the spare ap for it so I take research seriously and I won't have AV languish without any fanfare from the colleges because the grey college is trying to censor us because their a bunch of little prickly shits about our first stain on our perfect record and is a common risk in our profession as a wizard.

If they try to censor us where would we even publish? Who but the Colleges would take papers on the nature of the Aethyr and the winds? I mean I guess we could try to publish it in Laurelorn but without access to elf books on the subjects we do not even know if this is a new discovery for them.

If they try to kill us (which I think is very unlikely with the present winning vote) and we survive we should just run back to Belegar and then use political leverage to force the Grey College to change its decision. Anything else will just have them keep sending assassins after us for the rest of our lives, we would be in Magister Grey's position without a sanctuary, otherwise known as a dead woman walking.
 
Could a tweaked (fully spherical) version of Thorek's recharger, placed in a mono-wind environment, function as a mostly automated powerstone creator?

I'm thinking the aids mentioned that already exist are very similar, but with another wind instead of runes. The Rune of Valaya has a stronger repellent effect, I assume.

Could save us a bunch of CF if it worked, and if we can bribe him or another to do it.

They need existing power stones to act as catalysts, so they can't create new ones, only expand the current ones. As for automation, Mathilde will have to actually supervise the entire process at least once to begin thinking about how it can be automated.
 
Does Tilea or Araby not have any magic academia?
3rd edition WFRP says that Tilea and Estalia are in the same state as pre-Teclisian Empire, which is to say that individual nobles may sponsor court wizards and protect them from being lynched by mobs, but no wider magic-using organizations exist. The advent of the Colleges has pretty much displaced what little local magical tradition existed, since the nobles prefer to hire wizards who've been taught not to spontaneously combust, so magically gifted children are often sent to the Empire to study.
 
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I don't think we need liminal safety measures for the AV book, especially as we don't know what the Colleges already have. It would be pretty foolish to spend who knows how many years and AP (because that feels like a whole research tree on its own) researching and writing this stuff, publish, then just find out Algard had better the whole time.

Better just publish the AV book with the explanation on AV properties, Orbs, liminal realm creation and warnings, implications on Wind/reality theory, maybe Dwarf use, maaaaybe but probably not AV creation (snakebox). Then hopefully we can ask Algard for his knowledge on liminal realms and their safety, poke Hatalath after that (especially if they could be useful for Waystones, we'll have to learn more to even begin to speculate though), then research ourselves.

Also I still totally want to try making a liminal realm in a bound apparitions soul. Eventually.

Edit: Removed automation bit.
 
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