This kind of thinking might have passed muster before we recruited the Nordland Hedgewise, though even then this idea that the fifth face of the coin is actually useless was insane. But we now have an example of the coin working: we walked up to an imporant Hedgewise, told him that we want to do Waystone stuff for our Waystone project, and his respone was "well you know your people have kind of been engaged in the genocide of my people but you seem like a good egg so here's the the secret history of my people, and I'll join your project for free, let me know if you want me to tell everyone that I'm an illegal magic user or not because I literally trust you with my life." Might this give us some idea as to the likely effects of the coin?
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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Yes, if tells us that people are willing to join us in non-combat, when there's a clear goal of improving the chances of survival in the whole old world and when we also guarantee that no harm shall come to him.
I personally feel that getting people to willingly help us approach melkior or the blood fane will be much harder.
And it says nothing about if Haletha will help at all.
So first it was "just a guess that the father would get us anything other then people actually talking to us". Now it's "people are willing to help us in non-combat". I could argue the point but why bother, you'll just move the goalposts again, or mention approaching melkor and the blood fane when I have already addressed this exact point by saying that no, we aren't going to be doing that, and quoted a relevant WoG. But I think I will instead go and do literally anything else.
Hey we have something better than a army money and political connections. Mathilde can out a army together through bribes , deals, blackmail and nepotism.
The other issue with using the Father face of the Coin, like this Deceiver, is when we turn it to another face and people subsequently start asking themselves why the hell they trusted some random Grey Magister. Magical and divine mental influence is by no means unknown in the setting, and institutions have presumably developed protocols to deal with it.
For example, Tzeentch could easily grant a similar 'trust me' boon that people have to watch out for, and how would one of the institutions that's had members influenced tell the difference?
This kind of absolute effect is so incredibly dangerous that any cult or institution that survived would have to be able to take countermeasures. For example, it would seem completely in theme for Sigmar to be able to grant a blessing that made all Imperial subjects obey/trust the recipient, which could then easily mean that the likes of the Hedgewise were caught and burned.
For example, Tzeentch could easily grant a similar 'trust me' boon that people have to watch out for, and how would one of the institutions that's had members influenced tell the difference?
This kind of absolute effect is so incredibly dangerous that any cult or institution that survived would have to be able to take countermeasures. For example, it would seem completely in theme for Sigmar to be able to grant a blessing that made all Imperial subjects obey/trust the recipient, which could then easily mean that the likes of the Hedgewise were caught and burned.
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If we are not approaching those two targets (like it was laid out in the initial post i replied to) then what the fuck are we scouting? Those are the nexuses. If we are just scouting a random bit of forest then sure, i give you your point, but then i seriously got to ask what we are actually doing in there...
And as for moving goal posts with people talking and Aksel joining the waystone project, that still the same thing. He's talking to us and has revealed some tidbits but for example he explicitly hasn't been willing to talk about the Ostermark hedgewise when asked about them. The coin has its limits.
I'm assuming it works based on Mathilde's knowledge/beliefs, or maybe Ranald's knowledge at a stretch, on the basis that "an item usable to determine the objective truth of a statement" would be both outside Ranald's wheelhouse, and incredibly exploitable in ways that would bend the entire narrative around it
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
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I'm not so sure about that. We got Aksel to come along with the project with the Coin and he hasn't shown any second thoughts or distrust. I want to think that the Father coin simply allows for the best possible interaction with the people it involves, not any actual manipulation of minds.
People still continue to believe in lies reinforced with the Deceiver even when the coin is turned to another face. It just means that when we do turn the coin, we have to be careful to not break the lie with a contradiction because there is no supernatural force guiding it.
Same with the Father face—Askel, Halatha, and the Hedgewise will continue to trust us until we give them reason not to, unless we are wearing the Father when we break their trust, in which case the Father will overrule that (unless we somehow break Ranald's trust at the same time. Then again, the Deceiver will probably consider the whole thing a hoot).
Also, as we saw in the social with him, there are things that Askel won't do for us, no matter how much he trusts us. I suspect Halatha is in the same position.
Same with the Father face—Askel, Halatha, and the Hedgewise will continue to trust us until we give them reason not to, unless we are wearing the Father when we break their trust, in which case the Father will overrule that (unless we somehow break Ranald's trust at the same time. Then again, the Deceiver will probably consider the whole thing a hoot).
Also, as we saw in the social with him, there are things that Askel won't do for us, no matter how much he trusts us. I suspect Halatha is in the same position.
NuclearConsensus
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As another example, with the Protector, turning the coin to another face did not mean the dwarfs of Karak Vlag stopped believing that Mathilde had saved them, and given their situation they'd be one of the most paranoid about mental effects, especially ones from a god.
It works if Mathilde sincerely believes she is lying. It does not somehow measure objective truth and compare Mathilde's statements to it.
Parabola
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Arguably, there is no such thing as objective truth. There can be objective facts, but truth is a more fluid concept as understood by people.
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Belegar touring a reclaimed Karak Eight Peaks circa 2482 IC, colourised
View: https://twitter.com/iSavanl/status/1569769143460679683?t=Is9yUJey0sQJ86f-udzVjA&s=19
View: https://twitter.com/iSavanl/status/1569769143460679683?t=Is9yUJey0sQJ86f-udzVjA&s=19
In fairness I would not have put it past Ranald to make the coin query his knowledge of whether something is a lie so he can
Ranald knows that Mathilde would whip up a focus group and start testing which bold metaphysical claims she sounds supernaturally convincing for, and would have the nature of divinity as Ranald understands it pinned down within a couple of days.
Sir_Travelsalot
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Mathilde: "I have never felt so insulted by something I 100% agree with in my life!"
Parabola
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He knows her too well <3
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Their friendship seems more and more like sibling dynamics the further we get into it. If Matty ever manages godhood I expect her to be recorded as a sibling of Ranald. Ranald would generally be regarded as the elder of the two, but there'd be some radical sects that claim otherwise.
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[X] Ranald
Deception, subtility, and risk-taking coupled with altruistic ethics. Our oldest friend is a natural patron for Grey Wizards. Introduce Eike to the greatness of Ranald.
Ok, I know Eike is a Shallayan, but people are somewhat polytheistic anyway and it's not like at Eike's age her faith is set in stone.
As a grey wizard, it's good to a least respect Ranald I'd think. So even if Eike doesn't end up becoming a Ranaldite, I still think it would be something nice to share with her.
Deception, subtility, and risk-taking coupled with altruistic ethics. Our oldest friend is a natural patron for Grey Wizards. Introduce Eike to the greatness of Ranald.
Ok, I know Eike is a Shallayan, but people are somewhat polytheistic anyway and it's not like at Eike's age her faith is set in stone.
As a grey wizard, it's good to a least respect Ranald I'd think. So even if Eike doesn't end up becoming a Ranaldite, I still think it would be something nice to share with her.
Edit: I can hear that Boney quote in 10-year old Mathilde's voice.
Why can I hear her voice?
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Codex
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It's been a while since I checked the tally, but since the thread has been silent for a while I can probably say confidently what will win:
It feels like it's been so long that I forgot what we were voting Yes for. Of course it's about telling Borek about our debt. We're also getting Eike inducted using secrets.
BTW, how are y'all? Hope you've all been doing well. Take care of yourselves❤️.
It feels like it's been so long that I forgot what we were voting Yes for. Of course it's about telling Borek about our debt. We're also getting Eike inducted using secrets.
BTW, how are y'all? Hope you've all been doing well. Take care of yourselves❤️.
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I'm doing pretty well! Hope you're doing good too.
Ok so something I have been thinking about is the Middle mountains. There is a lot of things there that seems strange. There is no mineral deposits of any value in the mountains because the dawi laid a curse on the mountains. But with what we now know there may be a ancient dawi god there. Considering the one we know about I worry what is there.
Now I have some theories about what happen there I think there may be a warp gate there like in cannon. But instead of a dawi god we have a regular god three slowly being corrupted by the warp. The dawi that showed up and founded a hold there helped the god keeping the portal closed. Than the war of the beard happen and this hold right in the middle of it Did not take sides. Now we have what Thorek said happened but dawi forget. Also we have at least one example of divine magic effecting dawi. So I really think we need to sit down with Thorek and at least hint at what we suspect he may find there.
Now I have some theories about what happen there I think there may be a warp gate there like in cannon. But instead of a dawi god we have a regular god three slowly being corrupted by the warp. The dawi that showed up and founded a hold there helped the god keeping the portal closed. Than the war of the beard happen and this hold right in the middle of it Did not take sides. Now we have what Thorek said happened but dawi forget. Also we have at least one example of divine magic effecting dawi. So I really think we need to sit down with Thorek and at least hint at what we suspect he may find there.
The problem is that Mathilde might not be suspecting the same things as us. We have waaaaay more insider knowledge (or at least we think we do) and can draw conclusions Mathilde simply can't.