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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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cog-nito said:
@Boney

Why is it that battle magic can "never" be cast reliably? Is this for game balance? Or is this a lore thing where Mathilde in-universe merely believes that battle magic can "never" be cast reliably because she and the rest of the colleges have never seen or met anybody who could? (IE, a Slann mage priest or anybody who somehow mangaes to reach a similar magic stat)
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Ironically enough, Mathilde can cast Mist based battle magics reliably thanks to her staff.
 
cog-nito said:
@Boney

Why is it that battle magic can "never" be cast reliably? Is this for game balance? Or is this a lore thing where Mathilde in-universe merely believes that battle magic can "never" be cast reliably because she and the rest of the colleges have never seen or met anybody who could? (IE, a Slann mage priest or anybody who somehow mangaes to reach a similar magic stat)
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Because that's the criteria used to draw the line: if it can be cast reliably, it's not Battle Magic. There are thresholds beyond which the nature of magic changes. If there's just a bit of magic it becomes faded and malleable and it's called Earthbound Magic. If there's too much of it, it remembers that it was born of Chaos and fights attempts to impose order upon it, and anything that requires that much power to accomplish is called Battle Magic. The chance of losing control of it can be reduced to very low levels by piling on enough skill and experience and power and insight, but it's asymptotic, you can always reduce it further but you can never completely eliminate it, because you're not just fighting magic at that point, you're fighting Chaos.
 
It's a bit like electricity, I suppose. Crank up the voltage enough and you'll find that it starts to act like lightning, but that doesn't mean it's safe to touch when it's not.
 
Boney said:
Because that's the criteria used to draw the line: if it can be cast reliably, it's not Battle Magic. There are thresholds beyond which the nature of magic changes. If there's just a bit of magic it becomes faded and malleable and it's called Earthbound Magic. If there's too much of it, it remembers that it was born of Chaos and fights attempts to impose order upon it, and anything that requires that much power to accomplish is called Battle Magic. The chance of losing control of it can be reduced to very low levels by piling on enough skill and experience and power and insight, but it's asymptotic, you can always reduce it further but you can never completely eliminate it, because you're not just fighting magic at that point, you're fighting Chaos.
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Ahh, so basically the only way one could theoretically get reliable battle magic is to get rid of the influence of the Chaos gods somehow, (Or maybe just make it so they're no longer the dominant force in the warp would be enough, I dunno)

That sounds like a tall order, but funnily enough, that's mostly unironically doable if the Waystone project succeeds
 
cog-nito said:
Ahh, so basically the only way one could theoretically get reliable battle magic is to get rid of the influence of the Chaos gods somehow, (Or maybe just make it so they're no longer the dominant force in the warp would be enough, I dunno)
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No, no. Chaos altogether. Magic as we know it is Chaos, if only slightly controlled such. You can't take chaos out of magic as it'd remove it all.
 
Clearly we need to make Ranald the biggest warp entity there is.

That way, we get to autosucceed at battle magic! Plus minus the occasional prank, of course.

And yet again Mathilde sets impossibly large plans for the sake of minor conveniences :p
 
cog-nito said:
Ahh, so basically the only way one could theoretically get reliable battle magic is to get rid of the influence of the Chaos gods somehow, (Or maybe just make it so they're no longer the dominant force in the warp would be enough, I dunno)

That sounds like a tall order, but funnily enough, that's mostly unironically doable if the Waystone project succeeds
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I mean, doable is a wide range. There are indicators that you can do some pretty amazing stuff relatively safely, probably using of something like what you're thinking. Except, that was done by the ancient God-Beings that created the Slann and elves and dwarfs, and could move planets into new stable orbits, and did so because a nice round year-length is nicer. We will not get there in this quest.

And even that has the asteriks that their big project blew up and created two portals into hell, and also a giant ball of evil magic in the sky. So, maybe not that safe afterall.

So, for the purposes of the quest, there's no safe magic. There's safeish, and you get there by either using very little, or by filtering through a god. You can get battle magic level spells safeish-ish, by stacking skill and specialization, like Mathilde does for the fog spells, but it means another step away from safeish, which itself is not safe.
 
BurnNote said:
I mean, doable is a wide range. There are indicators that you can do some pretty amazing stuff relatively safely, probably using of something like what you're thinking. Except, that was done by the ancient God-Beings that created the Slann and elves and dwarfs, and could move planets into new stable orbits, and did so because a nice round year-length is nicer. We will not get there in this quest.

And even that has the asteriks that their big project blew up and created two portals into hell, and also a giant ball of evil magic in the sky. So, maybe not that safe afterall.

So, for the purposes of the quest, there's no safe magic. There's safeish, and you get there by either using very little, or by filtering through a god. You can get battle magic level spells safeish-ish, by stacking skill and specialization, like Mathilde does for the fog spells, but it means another step away from safeish, which itself is not safe.
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There is also 'be tough enough to tank the miscasts', something which all vampires almost get to and which Nagash actually reaches.
 
DragonParadox said:
There is also 'be tough enough to tank the miscasts', something which all vampires almost get to and which Nagash actually reaches.
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Vampires can survive some miscasts, but I have yet to hear of one managing to survive the Warp. There are some miscasts you just can't deal with unless you're someone like Malekith or Oxyotl.
 
Ergosum said:
On the one hand, this would be absolutely horrifying.
On the other, this is the kind of thing that could provoke a large-scale Slann intervention against Chaos, which would be very good for literally everyone else (as long as they are far enough not to become collateral damage).
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The Slann aren't exactly slacking as things are, they're just under a curse IIRC.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
The Slann aren't exactly slacking as things are, they're just under a curse IIRC.
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I mentioned this before in this thread, but it got so lost that I had to go through a lot of digging to find it again.
Codex said:
"At any one time, up to half the Mage-Priests alive in the world today are engaged upon the task of opposing the influence of Chaos wherever it may be encountered. Their spirit-selves battle in the ether against foes that would escape the Realm of Chaos and invade the world were it not for the Slaans' unstinting efforts" Page 20 Lizardmen 7th Edition
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The later Editions added a lot of sections about how the Slaan were actually always fighting to keep the world safe in the background, we just didn't notice it.
 
Codex said:
Vampires can survive some miscasts, but I have yet to hear of one managing to survive the Warp. There are some miscasts you just can't deal with unless you're someone like Malekith or Oxyotl.
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Hence why I said 'all vampires almost get'. They can survive all miscasts bar that one. Nagash can probably survive that one because his soul is anchored all over the place
 
DragonParadox said:
Hence why I said 'all vampires almost get'. They can survive all miscasts bar that one. Nagash can probably survive that one because his soul is anchored all over the place
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Since there's still a pretty hefty cost with that, I wouldn't describe casting for him as safe either. There's less ish in safeish.

I'm also pretty sure neither Nagash or Malektith or anyone else is guaranteed survival if they get sucked into the warp. A very few simply have a chance.

Well, I guess Daemons probably survive by default, but they might still be hurt by it. Or their patron punishes them for their failure.
 
[X] Yes
[X] Other: Prank

lol wut

I was not expecting to get actual answers about Karag Dum, like ever.

Boney said:
"But even after it had forgotten, we remembered its true name. As Chaos crept closer and threatened us with extinction, the founding truth of Karag Dum was reversed. The old gods are the only force that could rival Chaos, so Karag Dum called the least terrible of those known to it. Karag Dum called the being that was Shadowgave, that was city-father, and that was the desert wind, because the first thing it was, was the teacher and warden of the Dawi. So once more it teaches and it wards, and the skulls of Kurgan and the essence of Daemons sink into the sands that it rules.
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Huh. "Warden," as in a protector, a keeper of a prison, or both?

StormySky said:
Hey, actually, Khsar was notably one of the few Nehekaran gods without an animal form. (There's nothing for Kazvar either, but we literally know nothing about that guise besides "patron god of Tylos"). So I guess Morghur's bestial features might be a later addition, rather than something it originally had.
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My bet would be that it is a result of Morghur's "new family," the Beastmen; his form changed to match the people he sprang from.
 
I wonder what the elves think of Kshvar or what ever name they call it. The last sighting before the dawi of Dum called it was a expedition chasing it. Why were they chasing it.
 
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