[X] Coordination, making the disparate cacophony into a cohesive melody
Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I had a lot of things to say about the update, the lore and the impacts on LQ, and how it can connect to future arcs and projects. But then I slept and I lost my muse then.
So this is about the choices! There's not a lot of info to get out of the choices. Last night, I was really speculating about what each choice might but after sleeping on it, I've realized that that still doesn't work since there's not a lot of info. This will be like the Bloody Moon tribulation IMO, where there are lots of interpretations by us, but they ultimately don't mean anything or contribute to LQ's justification for a choice in any way.
So I'll focus on what I do know. One, coordination and complexity are really interchangeable. Constructs working together means coordination and synchronicity, but that by itself adds complexity to them since so many pieces are moving together to achieve something. And then complexity too can mean coordination. More complex constructs means more coordination with ourselves and our thoughts since they'll move from patterns in qi we're following to something that truly follows our commands.
The second thing to note is the Phantasmal Mastery Trait. Now, this by itself might be how Yrs will lead to it narratively, but in the end, the description says it increases BOTH our power and flexibility, which can be different interpretations of what coordination and complexity will give us, so I'm assuming this will be something extra based solely on how nicely the projects in this turn's plan work out, so either way, based on those two interpretations, this choice will just be a boost to what we'll eventually get.
In fact, if a latter roll based on this happens, we can end up getting both, like with the vote between Hunger and finesse. But again, like what each choice means, it's just baseless speculation and I'm trying to work with what I know.
The next thing I can think of for this choice will be what happened to us before this scene, when LQ told her story, received another in turn, and then was told to prepare her own tale to tell. When we told him our story, he said it was lacking in soul and connections to LQ. Again, focusing on coordination and complexity can help with that based on what they mean. More complex constructs will not be just made of qi, but have a bit more to them. A piece of ourselves to carry a tale and our experience. More coordination means a greater connection between LQ's constructs and herself, so again, still works.
Then after he told us his tale, he said we're at edges at the edges of animation. Animation most certainly means complexity, so it'll be better to focus on that, right? But coordination also means animation. Better motion and smoother flows will help enhance realism and turn our phantoms and the tales they tell into true animation. So both still work IMO.
So lastly, I just took the choices and face value and which one I'd prefer. Now, I know next to nothing about music, but what I see from the choices: Coordination = Unity, since we're bringing cohesion, and Complexity = Connection, turning simple things into something more so that there'll be better flow within gaps. And I much prefer Complexity if that's the case.
[X] Complexity, weaving a smoother song from simpler measures
So this is about the choices! There's not a lot of info to get out of the choices. Last night, I was really speculating about what each choice might but after sleeping on it, I've realized that that still doesn't work since there's not a lot of info. This will be like the Bloody Moon tribulation IMO, where there are lots of interpretations by us, but they ultimately don't mean anything or contribute to LQ's justification for a choice in any way.
So I'll focus on what I do know. One, coordination and complexity are really interchangeable. Constructs working together means coordination and synchronicity, but that by itself adds complexity to them since so many pieces are moving together to achieve something. And then complexity too can mean coordination. More complex constructs means more coordination with ourselves and our thoughts since they'll move from patterns in qi we're following to something that truly follows our commands.
The second thing to note is the Phantasmal Mastery Trait. Now, this by itself might be how Yrs will lead to it narratively, but in the end, the description says it increases BOTH our power and flexibility, which can be different interpretations of what coordination and complexity will give us, so I'm assuming this will be something extra based solely on how nicely the projects in this turn's plan work out, so either way, based on those two interpretations, this choice will just be a boost to what we'll eventually get.
In fact, if a latter roll based on this happens, we can end up getting both, like with the vote between Hunger and finesse. But again, like what each choice means, it's just baseless speculation and I'm trying to work with what I know.
The next thing I can think of for this choice will be what happened to us before this scene, when LQ told her story, received another in turn, and then was told to prepare her own tale to tell. When we told him our story, he said it was lacking in soul and connections to LQ. Again, focusing on coordination and complexity can help with that based on what they mean. More complex constructs will not be just made of qi, but have a bit more to them. A piece of ourselves to carry a tale and our experience. More coordination means a greater connection between LQ's constructs and herself, so again, still works.
Then after he told us his tale, he said we're at edges at the edges of animation. Animation most certainly means complexity, so it'll be better to focus on that, right? But coordination also means animation. Better motion and smoother flows will help enhance realism and turn our phantoms and the tales they tell into true animation. So both still work IMO.
So lastly, I just took the choices and face value and which one I'd prefer. Now, I know next to nothing about music, but what I see from the choices: Coordination = Unity, since we're bringing cohesion, and Complexity = Connection, turning simple things into something more so that there'll be better flow within gaps. And I much prefer Complexity if that's the case.
[X] Complexity, weaving a smoother song from simpler measures
- Pronouns
- He/Him
There's also just as much argument that "weaving a smoother song from simpler measures" is just a good as a description. Taking the best bits and pieces from long rants and arguments or LQ taking this and that from what she's found but still having it work by using what works best in each slot.
I'm also trying to think about how this will work mechanically and it might be end up at the same place but slightly differently. Coordination might be that when we activate a construct technique it lets us activate another construct technique for free. Two different effects for the price of one. Complexity would be when we activate a construct technique we can add another construct technique effect to it as a bonus. Two different effects for the price of one. Both have there pros and cons but we end up in essentially the same place. I could be wrong though.
Honestly from my perspective Coordination has a much more 'throw everything together and make it work' feel to it while Complexity has a more 'use the building blocks from each piece to get what you need' feel.
- Location
- THE EDGE OF THE WORLD
[X] Complexity, weaving a smoother song from simpler measures
- Location
- Rivendell
[X] Coordination, making the disparate cacophony into a cohesive melody
It's not an easy choice, but this one feels a bit more powerful to me. Think about it in terms of chess pieces: a beginner can have a queen and a rook, and still manage to lose to a grandmaster with a knight, bishop and pawn. The beginner has the more complex, stronger pieces, but the grandmaster actually knows how to coordinate everything towards a single purpose and effectively punch above their weight when looking purely at the material present on the board. Of course this analogy isn't completely accurate, but coordination will effectively make every single summon on the field useful.
It's not an easy choice, but this one feels a bit more powerful to me. Think about it in terms of chess pieces: a beginner can have a queen and a rook, and still manage to lose to a grandmaster with a knight, bishop and pawn. The beginner has the more complex, stronger pieces, but the grandmaster actually knows how to coordinate everything towards a single purpose and effectively punch above their weight when looking purely at the material present on the board. Of course this analogy isn't completely accurate, but coordination will effectively make every single summon on the field useful.
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Not accurate at all since there's a vast difference in experience between a beginner and a grandmaster. And the fact that the grandmaster has more pieces....
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, I think a better analogy would be two grandmasters playing against each other. One has a queen and knight (complexity) while the other has a bishop, rook, and two pawns (coordination). One has pieces with more versatility (complexity) while the other has more moving parts to work with (coordination).
- Location
- Spain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I understand that this is a bonus to standard cultivation that we get on this specific turn... Is that correct? And if so, what is the cultivation standard XP for turn?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That is the standard bonus from the gaol, yes. We have a base cultivation of 100 xp for both Physical and Spiritual from Song Seekers Ceremony which is our cultivation art. XP at the end of the turns get multiplied by our Talent level (which is 6) and if we meet all the prerequisites for the next stage in cultivation, if we have the needed concept levels, insights, or other requirements, we get an additional 50% on top of that. Essentially the formula for cultivation xp in a turn is (Base + Turn Bonus) x Talent x 1.5(if requirements met).
So for this turn so far in spiritual xp we are looking at (100+10)x6x1.5 = 990
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- Location
- Central Europe
@yrsillar One or two sentences on how you see the two options play out narratively/mechanically would be much appreciated. The vote feels quite deadlocked and not because it is very hotly debated. But rather because people seem unsure what they are actually voting for. There are a number of widely deviating and distinctly opposite interpretations floating around.
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I second this
- Location
- E
[X] Coordination, making the disparate cacophony into a cohesive melody
- Location
- United States
[X] Coordination, making the disparate cacophony into a cohesive melody
[X] Coordination, making the disparate cacophony into a cohesive melody
Oliver_Twister
Idea-Man, He Who Shits Ideas
- Location
- West Africa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I still think complexity is the better choice. We'll get a more cohesive set of field effects eventually when making successors, especially if we fuse BKSD and PLR. So more nuanced structures are still the best option imo
- Location
- Finland
I'm pretty sure we can get either of them eventually if we want to focus on it.
So for me it's less what is mechanically superrior long term, and more what i want now, instead of maybe later.
That partially preempts the post I was writing, but I'm gonna finish it anyway:
I'm skeptical of the coordination=swarm summons / complexity=elite summons interpretation. Let me paste the options here for reference.
[ ] Coordination, making the disparate cacophony into a cohesive melody
[ ] Complexity, weaving a smoother song from simpler measures
BKSD's Primal War Calling technique summons a swarm of beasts. It's a single technique, it's ultimately not a "disparate cacophony". It's automatically cohesive with itself by definition. And Complixity works with it just fine; likely it manifests as more intricate unit tactics among the beasts, in areas we apply extra focus. Swarm or elite really has nothing to do with this choice.
Anyway, with the clarification, I still lean towards Complexity. Blending our constructs together sounds cool, but I don't see how it plays out with any clarity. We've already seen attempts at this between PLR and BKSD, and it's been kind of muddled. I doubt that was deliberate in any way shape or form, so reasonable expectation is similar effects. It's also going to be hard for readers, especially those who don't have access to the mechanical art-description backend, to figure out what's actually happening. It's going to be high-level arbitrary. And if we pick up or drop a construct art, it shifts the entire field of possibilities and demands a whole new set of thematically cohesive mergers from yrsillar.
It sounds cool, but Coordination is more work and is more likely to lack clarity. It also relies on layering construct arts, which limits Ling Qi's options in conflicts if it's to be portrayed at all. If we eventually condense our construct arts down to one? The trait's performed itself into irrelevance. Again, it's a neat idea, but I just don't feel it's sustainable or workable over the long-term, if it doesn't fall on its face right off the bat, which it might.
Edit: It's also probably harder to explore the themes of individual arts through combat/conflict/action when its having its aesthetics and functions fused with other arts.
I'm skeptical of the coordination=swarm summons / complexity=elite summons interpretation. Let me paste the options here for reference.
[ ] Coordination, making the disparate cacophony into a cohesive melody
[ ] Complexity, weaving a smoother song from simpler measures
BKSD's Primal War Calling technique summons a swarm of beasts. It's a single technique, it's ultimately not a "disparate cacophony". It's automatically cohesive with itself by definition. And Complixity works with it just fine; likely it manifests as more intricate unit tactics among the beasts, in areas we apply extra focus. Swarm or elite really has nothing to do with this choice.
Anyway, with the clarification, I still lean towards Complexity. Blending our constructs together sounds cool, but I don't see how it plays out with any clarity. We've already seen attempts at this between PLR and BKSD, and it's been kind of muddled. I doubt that was deliberate in any way shape or form, so reasonable expectation is similar effects. It's also going to be hard for readers, especially those who don't have access to the mechanical art-description backend, to figure out what's actually happening. It's going to be high-level arbitrary. And if we pick up or drop a construct art, it shifts the entire field of possibilities and demands a whole new set of thematically cohesive mergers from yrsillar.
It sounds cool, but Coordination is more work and is more likely to lack clarity. It also relies on layering construct arts, which limits Ling Qi's options in conflicts if it's to be portrayed at all. If we eventually condense our construct arts down to one? The trait's performed itself into irrelevance. Again, it's a neat idea, but I just don't feel it's sustainable or workable over the long-term, if it doesn't fall on its face right off the bat, which it might.
Edit: It's also probably harder to explore the themes of individual arts through combat/conflict/action when its having its aesthetics and functions fused with other arts.
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