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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Boney said:
Most Wizards would be sensible enough to recognize that that's far too much risk for far too little reward.
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I like how the entire Wizard thing is that everyone recognizes that A leads to B and thus anyone doing A is too stupid to survive as a Wizard.

It's not the penalty, but the fact anyone getting caught is clearly a danger to everyone around them, that makes it work.
 
Merchants in particular are known to 'tithe'* to Ranald in an attempt to avert bad luck. It doesn't keep you safe from thieves, but not doing it can result in extra thieves being steered towards you.

* you can give it to the temple because there isn't one. Anonymous donations to poorhouses, shallyan hospices, and other places that benefit the unfortunate is the orthodox way to make a sacrifice. It has to be anonymous because if your name is attached to it then you're benefitting by improved reputation, so it's not really a sacrifice. And benefiting the unfortunate shows that you remember that you are wealthy because you are fortunate, and at the turn of a coin you could be where they are.
 
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Boney said:
Wizards are required to keep their College informed of where they are and who's employing them. They can lie about it for tax evasion purposes, but if the lie is found out the assumption will be that they're lying about it for Black Magister purposes and the Magisters Vigilant will be after them. Most Wizards would be sensible enough to recognize that that's far too much risk for far too little reward.
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Though I would guess that on the rare occasions when the Magisters Vigilant come across someone who is not sensible that way they breathe a sigh of relief.

Good news, he was not raising unholy abominations or ripping open passages to the netherworld... he just did not want to pay his taxes.

*sound of Magister Vigilant punching an idiot in the jaw*
 
[X] Plan Erimm on Blasting Duty

[X] Plan Lightly Armed

[X] Plan Searching in the Shadows
Mopman43 said:
The strictures in Tome of Salvation are for Priests. They're still considered values to live by for lay-adherents, but the principal followers are the Priests themselves.
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If that's the case then either Quest canon is different, or Boney's WoG on this subject don't make much sense, or I seriously misunderstood something.

Boney said that Mathilde's relationship with Ranald isn't the kind where he would insist on the tithe. That would not be worth mentioning that way since she's not a priestess. He also said that part of the tithe goes into the living expenses and lifestyle of priests. That then doesn't make any sense. And he said that in response to the question of what Ranald "does" with all the money he gets tithed. If priests do the tithing then the question of how and to whom they physically hand it over returns.
Boney said:
Wizards are required to keep their College informed of where they are and who's employing them. They can lie about it for tax evasion purposes, but if the lie is found out the assumption will be that they're lying about it for Black Magister purposes and the Magisters Vigilant will be after them. Most Wizards would be sensible enough to recognize that that's far too much risk for far too little reward.
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I was more thinking about Wizards doing the "put up a shingle" action or selling goods on the side and lying to the Colleges about the quantity of money or the price tags. Or the loot they find during adventures. Or the embezzlement they do.

IIRC Mathilde even paid 10% of the money she embezzled from Stirland (though that might be faulty memory). I can't see that being normal behavior among Wizards of most other Colleges.
 
Rafin said:
IIRC Mathilde even paid 10% of the money she embezzled from Stirland (though that might be faulty memory). I can't see that being normal behavior among Wizards of most other Colleges.
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I thought the money she embezzled went mostly towards paying off her student debts instead of her tithes?

DragonParadox said:
*sound of Magister Vigilant punching an idiot in the jaw*
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I wonder if there exist Perpetual Apprentices not because of inability or bad luck but because their terrible judgment and decision-making means no one will ever let them advance to journeyman or beyond.
 
There must be some. Basic magical ability and intelligence probably don't correlate that closely, but there's plenty of people whose bad judgement doesn't extend to the point of Dhar touching.
 
DragonParadox said:
Though I would guess that on the rare occasions when the Magisters Vigilant come across someone who is not sensible that way they breathe a sigh of relief.

Good news, he was not raising unholy abominations or ripping open passages to the netherworld... he just did not want to pay his taxes.

*sound of Magister Vigilant punching an idiot in the jaw*
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In some ways it feels worse, because it's so small. Let's be honest, 10% really isn't all that much. Even in a medieval/renaissance (it's kind of a mishmash) which doesn't have a well developed bureaucracy for tracking taxation, most people will pay more.

Breaking the rules for great power (not necessarily chaos related, there's plenty of none dhar related magic abuses) or forbidden knowledge is horrible of course, but at least it's not something you can get by just doing normal work another day every week and a half. And it's not like wizards are so badly paid that they're close to net-zero income after expanses (unless you really like living large, but then that's a whole separate problem, and the tax evasion is just one possible symptom).
 
Rafin said:
There must be some. Basic magical ability and intelligence probably don't correlate that closely, but there's plenty of people whose bad judgement doesn't extend to the point of Dhar touching.
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Not touching Dhar isn't a matter simply of judgment, but having a strong mental disciple to adopt a mindset purely aligned with a single Wind as you draw in, channel, and shape magic, whatever it is you're actually doing.

Being able to, for example; thinking only philosophical thoughts as your contemplate pure reason might be something you can do in a library just fine, but managing it in combat as you'd need to be able to do when on your journey to become a Light Magister is quite another matter.
 
Alratan said:
Not touching Dhar isn't a matter simply of judgment, but having a strong mental disciple to adopt a mindset purely aligned with a single Wind as you draw in, channel, and shape magic, whatever it is you're actually doing.

Being able to, for example; thinking only philosophical thoughts as your contemplate pure reason might be something you can do in a library just fine, but managing it in combat as you'd need to be able to do when on your journey to become a Light Magister is quite another matter.
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On the other hand gold is not only good for storing in a vault like a dragon, I'm sure that light magister has plenty of things he could buy for his studies, which would be easier to do without the tax. As long as you live in society and the economy is not post-scarcity there will always be a reason to skimp n your taxes.
 
Rafin said:
I was more thinking about Wizards doing the "put up a shingle" action or selling goods on the side and lying to the Colleges about the quantity of money or the price tags. Or the loot they find during adventures. Or the embezzlement they do.

IIRC Mathilde even paid 10% of the money she embezzled from Stirland (though that might be faulty memory). I can't see that being normal behavior among Wizards of most other Colleges.
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In theory a Wizard could underreport their income to reduce the amount they pay in tax, and there might be some doing so, but if their College's Bursar finds out about it - and it's their job to find out about it - they're likely to be exiled. Which makes the risk not at all worth it to any sensible Wizard.
 
Boney said:
In theory a Wizard could underreport their income to reduce the amount they pay in tax, and there might be some doing so, but if their College's Bursar finds out about it - and it's their job to find out about it - they're likely to be exiled. Which makes the risk not at all worth it to any sensible Wizard.
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Yeah, what kind of fool would do such a thing? I guess if you gained the money in some sort of illegal way, say embazzling, you might do that, but doing it for mere money? No true wizard would stoop to such lows.
 
Is Mathilde Ranalds unofficial troubleshooter, enforcer, executioner etc.. When soft or polite methods don't work Ranald sends Mathilde to kill or solve problems?
 
BurnNote said:
Yeah, what kind of fool would do such a thing? I guess if you gained the money in some sort of illegal way, say embazzling, you might do that, but doing it for mere money? No true wizard would stoop to such lows.
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Maybe if they were coerced by a vampire conspiracy that has since been wiped out?
 
Rafin said:
IIRC Mathilde even paid 10% of the money she embezzled from Stirland (though that might be faulty memory). I can't see that being normal behavior among Wizards of most other Colleges.
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Nope:
Boney said:
You get 100 gold per year in pay. You pay 10 of it in tithe, so they know that you earn 100. You've been paying 70 gold per year against your student loan. 20 gold remains per year, so you can have at most 80 gold total at this point.

The reason you have more than 80 gold is embezzlement.

And in case anyone's going to ask: no, I didn't even give you the option to pay tithe on your embezzlement because that would be very very stupid.
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This isn't the IRS, you aren't encouraged to pay income tax on illegal income.
 
Saotome Nakazawa said:
Is Mathilde Ranalds unofficial troubleshooter, enforcer, executioner etc.. When soft or polite methods don't work Ranald sends Mathilde to kill or solve problems?
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Mathilde's more like the friend who Ranald watches and helps out because he just knows doing so will lead to hilarious shenanigans at some point in the not-so-distant future.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
But isn't it be logical to use financial records to adequately prove that you are the superior Wizard? After all, if you weren't a good Wizard, you wouldn't have many high paying clients. And you wouldn't want inferior wizards to be unaware of how good you are, now, would you?
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Gold is the superior color anyway, all other colours are equally inferior before its magnificence.
 
Codex said:
I think it should be noted that Dwarven reluctance to adopt tactics like espionage and assassination is not a biological thing.
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Well, their biological makeup also makes it harder for them to become successful assassins. Fellowship penalty makes it harder to be a "suave socialite assassin", Agility penalty makes it harder to be a "stealthy unseen assassin". Splitting Dex from Agi in the WFRP 4ed gave Dwarves some bonuses in the sneaky department (easier time picking locks and pockets and setting traps), but it is hardly the full required skillset for any typical assassin archetype.
 
K von Carstein said:
Gold is the superior color anyway, all other colours are equally inferior before its magnificence.
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That sounds like something Gelt would say? Is it a Total War quote? It's uncannily like some of the stuff he says.

I distinctly remember his iconic diplomacy line. "Friendship is more valuable than gold, or so they tell me". One of my favorites alongside Karl Franz' "The Celestial College implores that I hear you. I remain unconvinced".

Possibly my favorite part of Total War is getting to hear those voice lines. The voice actors for the Empire killed it.
 
Codex said:
That sounds like something Gelt would say? Is it a Total War quote? It's uncannily like some of the stuff he says.
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It's paraphrasing what the Emperor said in « If the Emperor had a text-to-speech device ». Basically, the cast is discussing racism and one of the reasons the Manperor said racism was stupid is the fact that all color are equally inferior to gold.
 
K von Carstein said:
It's paraphrasing what the Emperor said in « If the Emperor had a text-to-speech device ». Basically, the cast is discussing racism and one of the reasons the Manperor said racism was stupid is the fact that all color are equally inferior to gold.
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I preferred it without the context tbh. Thought it would be a neat Gelt throwback, not a dumb race joke. EDIT: Not calling your joke dumb, the context of it disagrees with me however.
 
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