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If he really wanted Lord Magister he could... find a Great Deed to do to waive one of those boxes,
New plan: Discredit Alric by framing Regimand as the one who solved the Unfähiger murders.
Now that would be tragic. Regimand figures out the Ranald conspiracy and Mathilde has to kill her father figure with her own hands.
I really don't like this brainbug of "Mathild must kill to keep Heidi secret." Both Mathilde and Heidi are espionage experts, with plenty of methods from deceit and obfuscation to magic and divine trickery to guard and deflect the truth. Murder is the last tool in that toolbox.

Secondly, even if Regimand did figure out something he couldn't be allowed to know, Mathilde wouldn't kill him. She'd use Mindhole. (Vid's quiet, mind.)
 
And we are a Lady Magister, more to the point one who paid her in favor. She can always refuse or leave if she does not like the investigation. The one thing she cannot do is question us if we do not allow it.

Questioning authority and challenging the abuse of authority is literally the grey colleges purpose. We do not have carte blanche to order to tell people to suck it up if they have good reason to be suspicious of our motives.

She is not an intern, she is a specialist consultant, and if we don't like what she says we can't tell her to piss off, no matter our rank. This sort of behaviour is literally why no one likes Alric.
 
Questioning authority and challenging the abuse of authority is literally the grey colleges purpose. We do not have carte blanche to order to tell people to suck it up if they have good reason to be suspicious of our motives.

She is not an intern, she is a specialist consultant, and if we don't like what she says we can't tell her to piss off, no matter our rank. This sort of behaviour is literally why no one likes Alric.

I mean yes, but you have to prove it it abuse, which it would not be by the way. Use of discretionary power may not be nice, but it is entirely within the rules and you are right it is the reason no one likes Alaric, Alaric who is still a Lord Magister in good standing despite doing it for years with someone who knew much more of his weaknesses. We do not need the Stirlander to like us, we need her so serve for this one instance and then she can take solace in her payment.

Telling someone to shut about one subject once is not the same thing as using your apprentice as a gofer for years.
 
@Boney Would this work as a write in:

[X] Plan Ritual denial - Inside Sources:
-[X] Research: Murder Rituals
-[X] Plunder Krieglitz Manor - with an eye on seizing any Divine or Magical artifact, and testing/isolating them all. It's likely that a family like this has something terrible or cursed in their possession. A ritual focus, a cursed item, something to help aim and direct the ritual, or feed from the deaths.
-[X] Approach the hunting lodge Unfahigers - Insist on them allowing you/showing you anything on them they brought along, and check everything with your senses. Make sure nothing near or on them is part of this ritual. Introduce yourself only as Magister Grey, and keep your appearance hidden. Give no one watching them, or anyone they might be working with any clues to ID or track you. Ask them about hidden crypts, vaults and cursed items their ancestor might have brought/buried somewhere.

The plan is to check if this Ritual is a curse type thing, or a Hunted type thing. Eliminate the curse possibility first. If this is a ritual, it's going to have a focus, some material thing tying it to the real world that lets magic/demons focus on their target in the real world. Let's set out to find it. It either has to be hidden somewhere, probably in the Manor, or is being carried along by one of them. Either unknowing or on purpose as someone in league with Chaos.

If she does find magical items of dubious provenance, Mathy is uniquly situated to get them away and isolated, quickly. She has a damn Gyrocopeter on call, if she really needs it. As well as dwarven class isolation rune wards.

If it isn't a thing, then there's some person somewhere directing it. Even if said person is some kind of wraith/demon/thing hunting them.
 
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I mean yes, but you have to prove it it abuse, which it would not be by the way. Use of discretionary power may not be nice, but it is entirely within the rules and you are right it is the reason no one likes Alaric, Alaric who is still a Lord Magister in good standing despite doing it for years with someone who knew much more of his weaknesses. We do not need the Stirlander to like us, we need her so serve for this one instance and then she can take solace in her payment.
That's looking wider than I am though. My scope wasn't in the long run where even if she doesn't like us it won't matter.

I'm saying we could have trouble where someone in the gang isn't 100% on-board. Best(?) move on paper is Alric, we won't. Our cover story is dubious and paints a bad light. I'm saying that we could have problems, whlie not major, down the line on the possibility of her doing something. This could be reporting our dealings, our unknown motives for not collaborating with Alric if we don't tell her, anything that could give us a spotlight.

I'm not saying her help isn't worth it. But maybe this is excessive paranoia talking, even the Ranaldian Watch got us shoved into the spotlight, and that was years ago.
 
Tipping Heidi off without leashing her to Mathilde seems like it would end up with those 'having things happen surreptitiously' being Alric coming down with a case of natural causes.
Does Mathilde read High Priestess Heidi as the kind of person who would resort to just in case assassination, given the stakes? Personally I wouldn't have expected that. It would be against the strictures if Ranald, given that Alric is neither an enemy of humanity nor someone who could be easily portrayed as oppressing Heidi from above. I.e the Protector should frown on the Empress flexing her power to have an inconvenient underlined murdered, especially if said underling is currently involved in protecting people against Chaos.
I'm against all of these at this time (reluctantly, in the case of Heidi). We don't need more eyes on this right now, and we don't currently have any indication of a clear need for alternate specialized skillsets.
I wouldn't have been against the first three in principle and wad actually looking forward to bringing on Heidi, but the option we chose in the previous vote made all of these harder, which wouldn't have been the case if we would have chosen any other option.
Krieglitz was Dieter IV's dynasty in earlier editions, and after they were renamed the name stuck around in the Krieglitz-Unterns that control Talabheim in some versions of canon where it's separate from Talabecland. I don't know if canon ever drew an explicit line between them but I decided to roll with it as a rebranding attempt.
At the very least the Krieglitz-Unterns are clearly a cadet branch of whoever the Krieglitz were. So one possibility is that at some point in the past one branch of House Krieglitz (main or otherwise) renamed itself to Unfähiger, which I really hope is one of those words that only sounds like a German word but has a completely different meaning in Reikspiel and other Empire dialects.

Otherwise one Warhammery explanation could have been that they were forcefully renamed after their absolute fall from grace as an alternative to being stripped from their land and slaughtered by angry mobs. But that doesn't jive with established Quest canon. Or even much with common sense and established politics.
I would give Boney the world's biggest round of applause if he manages to turn my opinion on Alric around at this point. It would perhaps be the most impressive bit of writing I've ever seen if that occurs.
Just some possibilities to speculate about:
  • The spa's waters are actually seriously potent and Alric know this.
  • He has contacts with the local town the spa is located in.
  • He is protecting the main and most important target (as someone who subscribes to the Empire's political system wholeheartedly), but has agents subtly protecting the Lodge where the others are.
  • He knows enough about the demonic entity to know that protecting that many potential targets from being murdered is too hard and instead of spreading himself thin he is sacrificing two more members (of a dynasty he has more reason to hate than Mathilde) in order to then face the daemon on a fully prepared battlefield.
  • Lord Unfähiger is still a noble in charge of his family and a terribly difficult person to work with. The separation and spa were his idea and Alric doesn't just want to give up on him.

Renegotiating isn't just for getting extra benefits by the way. It allows us to bring over Horstmann and Elrisse into the investigation without having to navigate the fact that we implied something to Regimand that was not true. Making the implication true resolves that complication and removes the downside of bringing over the Lights.
All the reasons due to which bringing Egrimm to the investigation lost the main turn vote still stand, no? I mean I wanted to bring Egrimm, but doing it now anyway feels a bit like a relitigation.
Mathilde can just reply with 'Yeah, that sounds like something I'd do' and leave it at that.
And next time Alric barges into our dealings like an elephant in a porcelain shop and when confronted just repeats "Yeah, that sounds like something I'd do" back to us, alongside some fig leaf that allows him to claim he was doing his job in front of third parties.
That said, even with renegotiation, bringing in Horstmann & Elrisse could still lead to stories not lining up in terms of order of events - they'll know what terms Mathilde originally agreed to & that said terms wouldn't compel interference here.
I agree with you on Elrisse, but Horstmann should be okay with pretending he doesn't know any extra details if we ask nicely.
Wanting to be paid is a believable reason to meddle but she could've gotten paid for promising interference earlier, so that'd at least loosely imply that her interest in meddling increased upon discovering what she'd be meddling in, no?
The reason we the voters didn't commit to meddling in the first place is that we didn't want to risk promising something we wouldn't be comfortable doing later, in case Alric was doing some legitimate good that couldn't be disrupted by something as inane as forcing him to share credit. This reason reflects on Mathilde's motives as well. So all that renegotiating reveals is that Mathilde found out enough to know that meddling with Alric wouldn't go against her morals or duties.
She's a noble in Stirland as well as a shareholder in one of Stirland's largest trading ventures and a fromer council member.

That's leaving aside being a LM, being a Grey LM and having actually brushed past the plot early in her career.



6 years ago I would have still been older than 22 (even if not by much).

Now I feel old - positively ancient.
Now I'm curious about the age demographics of this thread. Or at least it's upper and lower bounds. I am 29, but I expect that we have at least some participants well into their thirties.
I'm sure it won't let us double dip. The loot is in their vaults and false bottoms and fake rooms. They probably didn't die there, so we'll be inspecting the sites and that's it.
We're investigating the place for the better part of a week. Finding potential loot shouldn't be a given, but it should be possible depending on a good roll or two. And regardless of what we find, we wouldn't be taking it unless we vote to do so next time around.
Secondly, even if Regimand did figure out something he couldn't be allowed to know, Mathilde wouldn't kill him. She'd use Mindhole. (Vid's quiet, mind.)
Mindhole would make him forget everything about Mathilde. That's not only tragic, it also might not cover everything he knows about the Empress. And it definitely would be something he would find out about immediately. Whole swathes of his life would have fallen to amnesia, so he'd ask other Grey Wizards about his own life. That would reveal that the massive hole in his mind os Mathilde-shaped. Which, given that he has no feelings for her anymore, would make her his personal nemesis, even if the rest of the Grey Order don't stand by him as he tries to answer "What the fuck Mathilde".

But yes, I also don't want to kill him.
 
Questioning authority and challenging the abuse of authority is literally the grey colleges purpose. We do not have carte blanche to order to tell people to suck it up if they have good reason to be suspicious of our motives.

I'm pretty sure that's the Ranaldites and the Grey College is more of an general covert operation, intelligence and diplomacy oriented institution.

Yes, there's bound to be a lot of Ranald related influences in Grey Order culture but the College is not going to so informal.


This could be reporting our dealings, our unknown motives for not collaborating with Alric if we don't tell her, anything that could give us a spotlight

Reporting to people who generally dislike Alric that we're not collaborating with Alric - which is something we're under no obligation to do anyways?
 
[X] Plan Research
Mira isn't relevant yet, Regimand was satisfied the lie, and people had problems with Egrimm interacting with Alric. This prioritizes the victims over the culprit though.
[X] Plan Contacts and Spellwork

We're investigating the place for the better part of a week. Finding potential loot shouldn't be a given, but it should be possible depending on a good roll or two. And regardless of what we find, we wouldn't be taking it unless we vote to do so next time around.
Mechanically then. As a quest, options where you can double-dip are generally frowned upon. The disproportionate inverse of this could be that Plundering should also include investigating given a nat 100.

If we mean narratively then fair. We could use a map for investigating which IC Mathilde would use when plundering. Or one of the victims was killed in his chambers and we remembered a weird painting which could have a safe behind it.
Reporting to people who generally dislike Alric that we're not collaborating with Alric - which is something we're under no obligation to do anyways?
We're over that now, the past two updates have given us the option of collaborating with Alric because it's no longer an in-house matter. A Lady Magister stating that she won't cooperate with Alric because she doesn't like him to the Grey Colleges of all places is a bad look right?

If I'm wrong here I wanna invoke my source-work ignorance card in advance.
 
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[X] Plan Means Motive Opportunity
[X] Plan Research

I want to focus on doing a good investigation first, before we go around trying to shake anyone down for more loot. If we want more payoff from this adventure, we can always clear out Krieglitz Manor on our way out. (What wizard is going to mind us putting Dieter IV's leftover plunder to good use?)
 
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So does anybody know if Dieter IV stolar away with any artifacts, documents, prized "heretic" history - that could be hidden in the manor?

Otherwise hard pass. Much rather loot dawi zharr or Skaven then.
 
Idea:

Kill all the unfahrigers and take their stuff, right under Alric's nose.
That way, they can't be used for Chaos rituals and Alric gets egg on his face.

Voila :V
I'm not actually serious, in case it wasn't obvious
I mean, if we were invoking the highest security classification, denying the probable ritual and protecting the Empress could actually be seen as a legitimate case of triage. And also applying the boot in a manner most venerable wizards would cheer us on in doing, to both Alric and the family.
Mathilde can just reply with 'Yeah, that sounds like something I'd do' and leave it at that.
"I've broken into a lot of places to interrogate the inhabitants, you're going to have to be a lot more specific."

For my part, working with the helpless victims will be easier if we already know everything about them and can convince them we are their long lost sister secretly hidden by Dietrich to aid the family in their time of need. And we should really properly case the joint before looting, so we know how many soon to be mindholed cart drivers we need to have coincidentally show up at the gate and not be stuck with yet another pick two vote of infinite acrimony.

[X] Plan Research
 
[X] Plan Means Motive Opportunity

I'm against bringing in anyone else. And against renegotiating. Our primary objective is for this to be handled as quietly and unobtrusively as possible.
 
So does anybody know if Dieter IV stolar away with any artifacts, documents, prized "heretic" history - that could be hidden in the manor?

Otherwise hard pass. Much rather loot dawi zharr or Skaven then.
It's a smaller list of what he did not loot than what he did loot. The possibility of loot beyond monetary value should be there. He did graft/robbed a lot of people/cults. It probably be the roll of the dice.
 
You know, thinking about this a little bit, it's kind of funny that the family of the Emperor who, in living memory, shut down the Colleges are now depending on College wizards for their survival.

[X] Plan Means Motive Opportunity
[X] Plan Research

Voting these for now.
 
Seems like I took Regimands comment about the best man already being here a bit too serious if he is down to make an adventure out of this for other favours, suddenly I'm not that interested in bringing in Alric. Very interested what exactly Dieter IV took from the Empire, and I have some hope that we will get another chance to plunder the Manor, depending on what we find while investigating it.

[x] Plan Renegotiation
[x] Plan Means Motive Opportunity
 
So does anybody know if Dieter IV stolar away with any artifacts, documents, prized "heretic" history - that could be hidden in the manor?

Otherwise hard pass. Much rather loot dawi zharr or Skaven then.

Almost certainly yes:

And Wilhelmine von Bucht, who shattered the House of Goellner when they thought their trade empire had made them too powerful to tax, who dismantled every Smuggler Guild from Middenheim to Fortenhaf, who concealed the Imperial Regalia and forced the just-deposed Dieter IV to retreat to Talabheim without performing one final theft.

His manor is probably a trove of lost imperial treasures.
 
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