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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Chipsy_21 said:
Do people really not think that inviting people whose institutions we want to rival in the future is not a bad idea?

Especially while we cant really meet them on close to equal terms?

I think its a bit of a reach to assume every verenan institution out there with which we will try to trade is made up of paragon verenans, why wouldn't a lot of them want to squeeze as much as they could out of KAU for personal prestige/knowledge etc. ?

[x] Plan Compromise
[x] Plan Waystone scrutiny, payments promised and Wind herding
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I dont think people are saying it's impossible. it is even likely to some level.' (have one of their people on staff)

but its not the Strawman '30 librarians turn up on Mathy's doorstep before it even started' that's being thrown around.

everything sounds bad when you're going to that extreme to make your point. I could say the same thing about Quinsberry and it would be just as fair.

because both are ridiculous, just because even if Verena have more power to do something like that, it's still a shit, and dumb move when just doing their thing and doing a good job would get them a good spot. (and that's ignoring the whole 'be fair and just in your actions' that they have as a tenant and assuming the whole cult would ignore it in mass.)

it's not a fair argument.
 
Verenians are set up to regard libraries as "their's". It seems like a fair argument if you want an independent library.

Mathilde is not the only one with divided loyalties. So you need to plan for them.

I don't want to set this up as a straw man, I've just felt like I had to make the argument more extreme to get my original point across, because flat denial of the argument is wrong.
 
i have no idea why people think that a) the verenians could do a take over of the library or b) that they would start out with it and fuck over the chances to make one of their (probably) dreams come true?
like the only thing the doom-saying is doing is making me more adamant to vote for the verenians?

its going "but what if the verenians gift us a giant bookcase, but in the bookcase are 30 knights of mystery and they build a fort next to geological records?" and then expecting a reasonable response to that.
Glau said:
Verenians are set up to regard libraries as "their's". It seems like a fair argument if you want an independent library.

Mathilde is not the only one with divided loyalties. So you need to plan for them.

I don't want to set this up as a straw man, I've just felt like I had to make the argument more extreme to get my original point across, because flat denial of the argument is wrong.
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yes, and mathy is pretty good at dealing with people who are unreasonable. like do you expect her to just roll over and give them the key?
 
Neck and Neck, quinsberry has overtaken verena by one vote!
Adhoc vote count started by Aranfan on Dec 22, 2021 at 6:36 PM, finished with 761 posts and 121 votes.
  • [X] Plan Compromise
    -[X] MAX: Learning: Rituals from the colleges. Mathilde pays gold costs.
    -[X] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm
    --[X] Shadowsteed & Clarity, allowing the user to ride all night without sleep
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    -[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Frost)
    -[X] Investigate Alric
    -[X] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
    -[X] LIBRARY: Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Quinsberry)
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    -[X] COIN: The Night Prowler
    [X] Plan Compromise + Verenans
    -[X] MAX: Learning: Rituals from the colleges. Mathilde pays gold costs.
    -[X] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm
    --[X] Shadowsteed & Clarity, allowing the user to ride all night without sleep
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    -[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Frost)
    -[X] Investigate Alric
    -[X] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
    -[X] Library: Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    -[X] COIN: The Night Prowler
    [X] Plan Stacking Advantages
    -[X] MAX: Learning: Rituals from the colleges. Mathilde pays gold costs.
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
    --[X] COIN: The Gambler
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (EGRIMM)
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    -[x] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
    -[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Frost)
    -[X] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
    -[X] Library: Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    [X] Plan Starting up debt free
    -[X] MAX: Learning: Rituals from the colleges. Mathilde pays
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Egrimm) (NEW)
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Johann) (NEW)
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    -[x] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
    --[x] The Gambler
    -[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Frost)
    -[X] Serenity: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    -[X] EIC: Investigate what trade goods the Eonir might be willing to import from the Empire. (NEW)
    -[X] Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (Bretonnia)
    -[X] The Gambler
    [X] Plan Pickle's Political Protector Proposal
    -[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Kurgan enchanted weapons
    -[X] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm
    --[X] Shadowsteed & Clarity, allowing the user to ride all night without sleep
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    -[X] Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn (Frost)
    -[X] Investigate Alric
    -[X] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
    -[X] Library: Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    -[X] COIN: The Protector
    [X] Plan Quinsberry Compromise
    -[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Kurgan enchanted weapons
    -[X] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm
    --[X] Shadowsteed & Clarity, allowing the user to ride all night without sleep
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    -[X] Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn (Frost)
    -[X] Investigate Alric
    -[X] EIC: Investigate what trade goods the Eonir might be willing to import from the Empire.
    -[X] LIBRARY: Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Quinsberry)
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    -[X] COIN: The Protector
    [X] Plan: Jyn+debt free
    -[X] MAX: Learning: How to fly a Gyrocopter
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with Johann
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with Johann and Egrimm
    -[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Ward of the Frost)
    -[X] Spend time assisting or ingratiating yourself with someone else: Have Lord Magister Krammovitch introduce you to the Hedgefolk of The Forest of Shadows to get your foot in the door.
    -[X] COIN: The Father
    -[X] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
    -[X] Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
    -[X] Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    [X] Way of Stones
    [x] Plan: Hugo Bann is the man.
    -[x] MAX: Learning: Powerstone creation with Mathilde
    -[x] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm: Ring of Sudden Dawn
    -[x] WEB-MAT: Attempt to recruit someone to WEB-MAT: Hugo Bann
    -[X] Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn (Frost)
    -[x] Experiment with integrating the Vitae into enchantment
    -[x] Investigate Alric - The Night Prowler
    -[x] Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries: Quinsberry
    -[X] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
    -[X] Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    [X] Plan Starting up debt free, Windherd Edition
    -[X] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm
    --[X] Shadowsteed & Clarity, allowing the user to ride all night without sleep
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Egrimm) (NEW)
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Johann) (NEW)
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    -[x] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
    --[x] The Gambler
    -[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Frost)
    -[X] Serenity: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    -[X] EIC: Investigate what trade goods the Eonir might be willing to import from the Empire. (NEW)
    -[X] Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (Bretonnia)
    -[X] The Gambler
    [X] Plan Verenan Compromise + Bright Pilot
    -[X] MAX: Learning: Rituals from the colleges. Mathilde pays gold costs.
    -[X] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm
    --[X] Shadowsteed & Clarity, allowing the user to ride all night without sleep
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Hire someone as a full-time Gyrocopter pilot (Adela)
    -[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Frost)
    -[X] Investigate Alric
    -[X] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
    -[X] Library: Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    -[X] COIN: The Night Prowler
    [x] Plan: Waystone scrutiny, payments promised and Wind herding
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    --[X] Coin: Gambler
    -[X] JOHANN: Learning: Enchanting.
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Mathilde+Johann) (NEW)
    -[X] EIC: Investigate what trade goods the Eonir might be willing to import from the Empire.
    -[x] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm: Ring of Sudden Dawn
    -[X] Investigate Alric
    -[X] Experiment with integrating the Vitae into enchantments.
    -[X] Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (specify which: Cult of Sigmar)
    [X] Plan Project Soon
    -[X] MAX: Learning: Rituals from the colleges. Mathilde pays
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (EGRIMM)
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    -[x] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
    --[X] COIN: The Gambler
    -[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Frost)
    -[X] Serenity: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    -[X] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
    -[X] Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (Bretonnia)
    [X] Plan Stacking Advantages
    -[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Kurgan enchanted weapons
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
    --[X] COIN: The Gambler
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (EGRIMM)
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    -[x] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
    -[X] Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn (Frost)
    -[X] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
    -[X] Library: Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    [X] Plan Maximum Field Trip
    -[X] MAX: Learning: Rituals from the colleges. Mathilde pays gold costs.
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN, MAX, EGRIMM)
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN, MAX)
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    -[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Frost)
    -[x] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
    --[X] COIN: The Gambler
    -[X] EIC: Investigate what trade goods the Eonir might be willing to import from the Empire.
    -[X] Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (Bretonnia)
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    [X] Plan Fire Beats Ice (Compromise variant)
    -[X] MAX: Learning: Rituals from the colleges. Mathilde pays gold costs.
    -[X] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm
    --[X] Shadowsteed & Clarity, allowing the user to ride all night without sleep
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Hire someone as a full-time Gyrocopter pilot: Adela (NEW)
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    -[X] Investigate Alric
    -[X] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
    -[X] LIBRARY: Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Quinsberry)
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    -[X] COIN: The Night Prowler
    [X] Plan Compromise + Verenan
    [X] Plan Compromise + Verenans + Gambler
    -[X] MAX: Learning: Rituals from the colleges. Mathilde pays gold costs.
    -[X] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm
    --[X] Shadowsteed & Clarity, allowing the user to ride all night without sleep
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    -[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Frost)
    -[X] Investigate Alric
    -[X] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
    -[X] Library: Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    -[X] COIN: The Gambler: Personally scrutinize a Waystone
    [X] Plan: Jyn+Lay the foundations
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Johann and Egrimm)
    -[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Ward of the Frost)
    -[X] Spend time assisting or ingratiating yourself with someone else: Have Lord Magister Krammovitch introduce you to the Hedgefolk of The Forest of Shadows to get your foot in the door.
    -[x] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
    --[x] The Gambler
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    -[X] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
    -[X] Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
    -[X] Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    [X] Plan Allies and Favours
    -[X] MAX: Study an artefact: (Books and rubbings from an Asur explorer of Lustria and the Southlands)
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with one or more members of WEB-MAT (EGRIMM)
    -[X] Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn (Frost)
    -[X] Attempt to bring a non-Order magical tradition into the Waystone Project (Nordlander Hedgewise)
    -[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (House Tindomiel)
    -[X] EIC: Have the Hochlander set up a shadow headquarters for the EIC in the Sunken Palace.
    -[X] Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (Bretonnia)
    -[X] Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm
    -[X] The Father
    [X] Plan Starting up debt free, with Webmat field trip
    -[X] MAX: Learning: Gyrocopter lessons from Prince Gotri's pilots.
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Egrimm) (NEW)
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Johann, Egrimm, Max) (NEW)
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    -[x] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
    -[X] Attempt to bring a Major House or Ward into the Waystone Project (Frost)
    -[X] Serenity: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
    -[X] EIC: Investigate what trade goods the Eonir might be willing to import from the Empire. (NEW)
    -[X] Seek the publishing contacts to start acquiring large amounts of books from a nearby realm (Bretonnia)
    -[X] The Protector
    [X] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    [X] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
    [X] Plan WEB-MAT All-In
    -[X] MAX: Study an artefact: Kurgan enchanted weapons
    -[X] MAX: Learn to pilot the Gyrocopter along with Mathilde
    -[X] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm
    --[X] Shadowsteed & Clarity, allowing the user to ride all night without sleep
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with one or more members of WEB-MAT (Egrimm) (NEW)
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH) (Johann, Egrimm)
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    -[X] EIC: Investigate what trade goods the Eonir might be willing to import from the Empire. (NEW)
    -[X] Library: Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
    -[X] SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
    -[X] COIN: The Protector
    [X] Plan Stacking Advantages, Windherd Edition
    -[X] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm
    --[X] Shadowsteed & Clarity, allowing the user to ride all night without sleep
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Alric with one or more members of WEB-MAT (JOHANN)
    --[X] COIN: The Gambler
    -[X] WEB-MAT: Investigate Gryphon Wood with one or more members of WEB-MAT (EGRIMM)
    -[x] Personally scrutinize a Waystone as thoroughly as you possibly can.
    -[x] Lay the foundations: work with the current members of WEB-MAT and the Waystone Project to build a single unified framework for understanding the Waystones.
    -[X] Explore one of the Wards of Laurelorn (Frost)
    -[X] EIC: Try to uncover what's going on in Gryphon's Wood.
    -[X] Library: Seek an agreement with a Cult to have access to their libraries (Verenans)
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Observations of Johann's prosthetic arm (FRESH)
Click to expand...
 
Glau said:
Do you have an argument besides aggressive rhetorical questions I've already addressed in prior posts?
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do i need one? you whole argument was that the verenians would come in and take over if we even give them an inch, you gave no proof except "they think libriaries are theirs" while completly forgetting that they dont even have a common head of their religion and that pretty much any library of verena we would deal with is their own sect, which curtails their potential power massively. the only thing you did was fear mongering.
 
Glau said:
Verenians are set up to regard libraries as "their's". It seems like a fair argument if you want an independent library.

Mathilde is not the only one with divided loyalties. So you need to plan for them.

I don't want to set this up as a straw man, I've just felt like I had to make the argument more extreme to get my original point across, because flat denial of the argument is wrong.
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I have at no point said that they don't they have divided loyalties, let alone flat denied it, everyone does, even the Halfings will have one. I just argue that their help would be worth the politics. and if your original point required you to strawman, isn't that a sign that your point might be overstated?

as an 'extreme' version of my argument,

'there is no guaranty that the Quinsberry Library doesn't have a connection with the Quinsberry lodge, one is about recording Halfing history out of nationalist/race pride, the other is a halfing ultra-nationalist mob.

can you really say that inviting the Quinsberry Library would not invite lodge sympathisers?'

see? technically valid point, as long as you ignore that its the worst interpretation of possibilities and of their potential character.
 
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Tobtorp said:
do i need one? you whole argument was that the verenians would come in and take over if we even give them an inch, you gave no proof except "they think libriaries are theirs" while completly forgetting that they dont even have a common head of their religion and that pretty much any library of verena we would deal with is their own sect, which curtails their potential power massively. the only thing you did was fear mongering.
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This is known, rhetorically, as a reducto ad absurdum, where you take a line of logic far past it's conclusions to ridicule it.

I am concerned about the Verenians getting undue influence as well as a number of other things, but "come in and take over if we give them an inch" is a bad-faith exaggeration.

If you don't want to address the concerns until they occur, or consider them real but addressable with other settings taken, cool.

Exaggerating me for mockery makes me poorly disposed towards you.
 
Glau said:
This is known, rhetorically, as a reducto ad absurdum, where you take a line of logic far past it's conclusions to ridicule it.

I am concerned about the Verenians getting undue influence as well as a number of other things, but "come in and take over if we give them an inch" is a bad-faith exaggeration.

If you don't want to address the concerns until they occur, or consider them real but addressable with other settings taken, cool.

Exaggerating me for mockery makes me poorly disposed towards you.
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Glau said:
I strongly suspect that the first thing the venerians are going to start thinking about when they find out there is a giant library run by humans going up in a Karak is how they can get control over it.

The usual way to do that is to get your people into it and the chain of promotion. So I think if we go to early, they will be more than glad to 'help' us- sending a ton of acolytes and minor works, taking over as much of the organization, hiring, scheduling, policy, etc.

They'd have the leverage because we wouldn't even really be a library yet, just a construction project, and so they'd use experience and manpower and the carrot of continuing to share books as leverage to get us to do things the "right" way. Which isn't a problem except that it means Verenians in charge and Verenians policies, regardless of the words on the dedication.
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this you? there is a reason i used "give them a inch"
 
While I slightly prefer Quinsberry, the current anti-Verena agrument is a bit silly.

"Hey guys I had the best idea since fried cheese. Let's infiltrate and subvert this joint run by a Grey Lady Magister inside a dwarfhold. What could possibly go wrong?"
 
My reasoning for voting for Quinsberry is that I would rather wait before asking the Vererans for their books, because at this point our library has very little prestige and it is still pretty unknown in the scholarly circles...

So better go get a bigger collection and more fame before asking the Verenans, they are one of the cults from whom we can get more books from, and I would rather avoid getting rejected for asking too early.
[X] Plan Compromise
 
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Cassiemouse said:
I was reading the wiki a bit and it appears like Verena is an enemy of Ranald? That sounds pretty bad.
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'waves hand back and forth' it's complicated.

basically, very oversimplified, they are enemies 'in' pantheon, but they and their cults will close ranks with Mor, Shallya and Myrmidia when dealing with those 'out' of the pantheon. and to an extent, the other human gods when it comes up.

and most of the worshipers of one will of the South gods will respect* the other gods.

*if only because smiting is a real thing
 
Boney said:
One of Verena's facets is opposed to one of Ranald's facets, as the Goddess of Law frowns upon the God of Stealing. The other combinations are more capable of coexisting.
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So IMO, I'm thinking the conclusion here is that it's a bad idea to combo Verenans with the option to put out a no-questions-asked bounty for books with the Cult of Ranald. But I was against that option anyway.

[X] Plan Compromise + Verenans

Changing my vote because I've been persuaded that asking Egrimm to investigate Alric might be helpful, but also is a whole can of worms whose contents we can't know without actually trying it. So I'm okay with erring on the side of not fucking with Schrodinger's Worms. Also, the Verenans have cool books and I don't care about the Cult of Quinsberry, so.
 
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